Project profile templates are too big

Question

Don't get me wrong ... I like projects and they all do a wonderful job of furthering Wikitree.  What I don't like, so much, is the large amount of space their tags take up in the 'Biography' section of a profile ... and, they're at the top of that section and don't provide a lot of additional information about the person.  I put one such link into this message.

Looking at the linked profile you see a nice list of Categories that old Hugh is a part of, and it only takes up a couple of lines. Why can't the same be done for projects?  Or better yet, a list of the jpeg icons for each project and clicking on the icon sends you to the project and hovering over the icon pops up a note about the project.

Okay, I'm done ... again! lol

Addendum:  So, I changed the linked profile to make a 'Projects' section and put those tags down at the bottom of the profile (thanks, Eugene!).  Whatcha think?

A further thought about 'at the bottom' ... certain project tags should be at the top, like 'Puritan Great Migration', 'Acadians', and, of course, Succession Boxes.  Suppose it would be a profile manager decision.

***added tag 'templates' to put in feed of template project members ~RT

Answer 1

I see what you mean.  How about maybe putting the project tags on the right side, under the tag about being project protected?

Answer 2

I think you're right, Bob. This is something I've meant to bring up for a while.

I don't know if the solution would be to make them narrower (tighter and/or with smaller images), and/or align them to the right or left, and/or limit the total number of profiles boxes per profile, and/or ask that some profile boxes go beneath the biography and sources sections. Or something more technical like you're suggesting, with a pop-up.

At least these are done with templates, so that all the profiles don't need to be changed when a new design is developed. I think Rob Ton even made some of the templates cascading, so that even individual templates don't need to be changed in all cases.

Comments

Chris,

Most of the projects use the project box template that Lianne originally designed, and a couple instead use the profile-box template - very few projects use 'stand-alone' templates (I know I built Westward Ho as a stand-alone because it was the first use of parser functions for project templates).

As the number of projects has proliferated, an increasing number of profiles fall under the auspices of multiple projects and as result I have increasingly seen the comment that project boxes take up too much space - this is part of why, wherever possible, we have been incorporating sub-projects into the same template as the parent project (distinguished only by parameters) - for example Michelle Hartley has been working with the UK project to make a unified template based on {{Project Box}} for the Scotland, England, and Wales sub-projects. (I still have to complete a proposed change to project box for that template to be 'done')

Depending on the project, an entirely different approach can also work... as Bob alluded to in his question templates that don't give additional information about the person are often seen as clutter - instead of making a template smaller it is sometimes possible to make it more informative about the individual. For example, http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Template:US_Politician is larger than a standard project box but also gives more information and can be easily linked to future sub-projects (Project US Vice Presidents, Project US Senators, etc.). In the longer term I would love to incorporate state politicians (governors, etc.) into this same template (it gives a better 360º of someones political career) but that really requires variables and string functions to do well (without overburdening the user).

Anyway, I have been mulling over some options. One is to use 'mini-templates' similar to the user boxes that Lianne and others have already created. If we want to allow users to continue using the current project boxes with an option to switch to the mini version (easily, and at any time) we could create {{Template:MiniProject Box}} use the same parameters as {{Project Box}} and simply change all the project templates to start with {{{{{Mini|}}}Project Box  - when the user wants to use the mini-version they can add the parameter mini=mini to the template calls and it will use the 'compressed' version) --- the problems I see with this solution is that some users already have a hard time reading the profiles and smaller fonts are not going to help - moreover if the project template is too small it does not serve the purpose of 'promoting' the project.

I have some other ideas bouncing around my head that I want to think out some more before I detail them.

I think Bob's solution of using a projects section is a great interim solution but I don't think that is what we should aim for as a longer term solution.

 

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Thanks, Rob!

Answer 3

As Chris said, we can change the templates in some way to make them fit better. But just to comment on this particular example, I feel like not all of those templates need to be there. During Note-vember the Notables template has been added to a lot of profiles that are in other projects (like this one that is in the Canadian History Project). I think that's a bit redundant, personally.

Comments

I agree - reduce redundancies <sp?>

Answer 4

I agree with Bob! Sometimes I move the Project below the Biography because I feel the Bio is more important. I would put that forward as a suggestion that ALL PROJECTS GO AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PROFILE or at least below the Biography.On the other hand I do like to see the Succession box above the Bio. It does get messy when there are multiple succession boxes as in the case of some politicians but one or two are fine.

Projects hold a different place in peoples minds - either you are interested and want to participate or you are ambivalent or you just don't see the need. I'm still trying to figure out the relevance of this AJ Jacobs and the Global Reunion thing and then even the Notables Project. I guess they are good ways to generate more interest in genealogy but to me they are just red herrings but this is a topic for another day.

Also I think things like {{DateGuess}} also take up way too much space - there is a huge margin around the text which doesn't help but perhaps the text could be reduced - I think I may have suggested the current wording. A smaller font would also improve things.

Comments

I made a {{DateGuess2}} template which could also be made smaller with less wording. Any suggestions for wording to make it smaller welcomed

Rob & Lianne, thanks for creating and explaining the templates uses. It's still great to have them, overall.

I like Gaile's suggestion of maybe aiming at a different location for them to be seen rather than smack above the biography section.

 

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I am using it now and think it should replace the old {{DateGuess}}

Answer 5

I would like us to consider using this opportunity to rethink the right-hand column.

Right now, photos appear in the right-hand column AND in-line when so put. I'd like to see the right hand column freed from photos. There IS a photo tab already; why both right-hand column AND photo tab AND (where people have done so) in-line placement in the narrative? That's a lot of landscape. If we removed photos from right-hand column that would free up more space for, say, project templates.

And btw, I concur that many templates take up an unnecessary amount of room and anything that could be done to minimize the amount of white space used within them would be appreciated.

Answer 6

If Gaile and Jillaine's idea about using the right hand side of the profile page (which sounds like a winning idea) isn't acceptable, would it be possible to have one universal template that's, perhaps, a little larger than all the other templates so that it's easily read by even those with eye sight problems. That larger template would go between the biography and the categories and would say something like, 'This profile is a part of X projects'. It could either be hovered over to see a list of projects and/or clicked on to be taken below the biography where all the mini templates would be displayed.

Answer 7

Gail, I like the idea of putting templates on the right side of the profile, and Jillaine, I hope there will be a way to incorporate your thoughts on images so they aren't duplicated. There are many other ideas worth pursuing here.

I would like to add links to a couple of profiles as more examples of why we need to formulate a comprehensive policy on templates. Please see Margaret (Wyatt) Allyn and Alphonse de Vere.

Also, see Sarah (Bacon) Barchus as an example of the template Rob made to convey important data about the profile.

 

Templates began slowly with a couple of projects, then burgeoned into the varieties we have today. There was not very much of a need to coordinate them in the beginning. Now, we have templates as small as the Acadian, at 1 1/2 inches high and 3 1/2 inches wide, to the Trails and Wagon Trains sub project of Westward HO, where the combined size of the project and wagon train data is 6 inches high by 9 inches wide.

 

The US Civil War come in at 2 inches high and 7 1/4 inches wide, and the PGM at 1 1/2 high by 6 inches wide (or 7inches wide for specifying the source books).

 

Mayflower, a very important project to the hearts of many, is 2 inches high by 5 inches wide, and equally valued, the 1776 project is only 1 3/4 high by 3 inches wide. The most recent project, US Southern Colonies, is 1 1/4 high by 8 1/4 inches wide.

 

These are all the closest approximate measurements on my screen (which is extra large) using Firefox browser.

 

Am I reading your messages correctly - that a goal of projects being equally represented in the templates, and to have a pleasing coordination with each other are goals we agree upon?

The questions I see are, what height is best, should there be a border, and where is the best location to display templates?

 

For what it is worth, the Magna Carta project template is 1 1/2 inches high and 6 inches wide, and the Euroaristo (Brit. Isles, etc) template is 2 1/4 inches high by 8 inches wide. At least on my screen there is discernible difference. But some people are using tablets, or iPhones, Macs or Windows. What one of us sees on their screen does not necessarily equate to what another screen shows - there would be wide variance.

I hope all the project managers will chime in here with their ideas on the templates.

Comments

Just to clarify: the template April refers to when she says "...convey important data about the profile" is Template:Wagon Train which creates the profile section entitled "Wagon Train Details" (including the heading and the table) seen on the example profile she gave; instead of being a pure 'display' template, this template (like the US Politican Template already mentioned) is used to present specific content (or a summary anyways) in a fixed format that integrates into a biography.

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Thank you Ron for clarifying - that is exactly what I meant. Having the data on the wagon train up front is important because it may help connect people who were on the same wagon train. It definitely helps see where to do research on the profile.