Resolve confusion surrounding Levinus Winne (also Aechie Van Schaick)

+6 votes
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Levinus Winne, son of New Netherland immigrant settler Pieter Winne, has many descendants and is the subject of some genealogical confusion needing to be sorted out. Many profiles are affected.

The father, Pieter Winne, is generally agreed to have been been born in Ghent, Flanders, in 1609. (There appears to be a fairly good source for his birth.) He is represented here by profiles including [[Winne-19]], [[Winne-23]], [[Winne-86]], and [[Winne-135]]. He was married first, apparenlty in Flanders, to Aechie Jans Van Schaick ([[Van_Schaick-26]] and [[Van_Schaick-106]]), said to be born in 1612. Profile [[Winne-124]] is for a son named Pieter, born in Ghent in 1632. I can't see the source cited in that profile, but I don't think the information is valid (although it's very possible that Aechie had a son in 1632, when she was 20, but this and other early children did not survive).

Pieter and Aechie emigrated to Curacao, where a son named Pieter ([[Winne-134]]) was born circa 1643. This is the only child of the first marriage who is acknowledged in the first Pieter Winne's two wills. Aechie died in Curacao in in the 1640s. A number of genealogies indicate that a son, Levinus Van Schaick Winne, was born around the time of her death. This son is represented here by [[Winne-18]] and [[Winne-123]]; the first of these profiles credits Levinus with two wives and several children.

Pieter Winne left Curacao and ended up in New Netherland, with Tannetje Adams ([[Adams-2017]] and [[Adams-14274]]) as his wife. Pieter Winne's second will (dated 1684) lists his living children by his wife Tannetje; the second child on that list is named Levinus. I deem it highly unlikely that a son by the second wife would have been named Levinus if there was already a living son by that name. Accordingly, the Levinus who had those wives and children must have been the son of the second wife, Tannatje, not the son of Aechie.

I can't confirm the existence of Levinus Van Schaick Winne, but I think it's likely that this son died in about 1659 (consistent with the death date on [[Winne-123]]), and that the next son born to Pieter and Tannetje Winne was given the name Levinus.

I propose the following:

  1. Revise [[Winne-18]] to replace the mother Aechie with Tannetje as mother and change the birthdate to an estimated date of around 1660 (after the birth of brother Adam Winne)
  2. Add Pieter Winne (born 1609) to [[Winne-123]] as the father.

I am working on removing Aechie as the mother of several children who were born after her death and are recorded in Pieter Winne's will as being the children of Tannetje.

Some information sources:

Does anyone have primary sources or other information to support or refute any of this, or that can resolve discrepancies between the birthdates and death dates given in various unmerged profiles?

WikiTree profile: Levinus Winne
in Genealogy Help by Ellen Smith G2G Astronaut (1.5m points)
edited by Ellen Smith
I'm very interested in this point of confusion as well. Has anyone reached any clear conclusions on this?
We don't have "proof" (and don't know whether proof will turn out to be attainable), but the profiles https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Winne-18 and https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Winne-123 present a plausible explanation that emerged from this G2G discussion.

This whole story is based on the most slender evidence. Records are sparse. It's possible that new records will be found (for example, from Curacao) that will answer some questions. Note that there are no Albany marriage or baptism records from the relevant time period.

2 Answers

+4 votes

Well documented and put / stated question Ellen ... I do not have any cut-and-clear answers but perhaps some leads ...

According to http://www.schenectadyhistory.org/families/hmgfm/winne-1.html - "II) Lavinus, son of Peter and Tamatjie (Adams) Winne, was born in Holland in 1647. He came to America with his father and was then thirty-seven years of age. [i.e. 1684]. His first wife was Teuntje Martense, whom he probably married in Holland. He married (second) Williamje Viele Schermerhorn and had children: Benjamin, Killian, Petrus, Marten, Bata, Maria Sara and Bluyan.

According to http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~winnwilcox/pwinne.html Winne, Pieter, "born in the city of Ghent in flanders (now living in Bethlehem two miles south of the city of Albany" and Tannatje Adams his wife "born in the city of Leeuwaerden in Vrieslandt" made a joint will July 6, 1684. Letters of administration were issued to LiviniusWinne and Caspar Leendertse Conyn, Feb. 22, 1695-6; in 1697 his estate was valued at 860 peices of 8. In 1677 he baught of Volkert Janse Dauw, one half of Constapel's Island; Same year he baught of Nicolass Van Rensselaer, a sawmill in Bethlehem, late the property of Eldert Gerbertse Cruyft. He had the following children living in 1684: Pieter Pieterse b. 1643, living at Esopus; Adam; Livinus; Frans; Alette, w. of Caspar Leendertse Conyn; Kiliaan; Thomas; Lyntie; Marten; Jacobus; Eva; Daniel; Rachel.

So it seems (probable but not proven yet?) possible that the first Lavinus died on Curacao shortly after his mother (in a small-pox epidemic or childbirth ?) and that the second Lavinus was born in the Netherlands (his father obviously had gone back ...) only to come at a later stage (aged 37, educated perhaps) to the then British Colony ....

According to http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rclarke/page1/demott.htm a certain Winnie DeMott ''who was born about 1732, a daughter of Marten <Levinus> Winne (Marten, son of Levinus?) and Annatje <Cornelis> Van Vorst Winne [...] ...

There is something about these events that rings a familiar bell (sugar plantations / coffee / slaves? - there are similar documented cases of Dutch merchants settling in the Carribbean and then ending up in New Netherlands or New York, at times having complicated lives with 2 or more wives and concubines [not saying it happened in this case] with illigitimate children ...). 

I will have a lookabout for any other primary sources ...

by Philip van der Walt G2G6 Pilot (171k points)

I don't put a lot of credence in the statement in Hudson-Mohawk Genealogical and Family Memoirs (this is the schenectady.org document) that Lavinus Winne was 37 years old when he arrived in New Netherland.

That source is one of those old genealogical books whose contents were copied from other books that in turn were copied from other books. It is, however, the only source I've seen that purports to quote from the 1677 will.

Also, it seems unlikely that Lavinus waited until his late 30s to marry. However, the first marriage in 1682, with birth of children beginning shortly thereafter, is what would be expected for a man born around 1660.

I've found mistakes in Reynold's "Hudson..." and he was indeed using the work of earlier family historians http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Quackenbush_Bibliography#Adriaan.2C_Johannes.2C_Pieter_1614

+4 votes

Also lots of info here ,something about Aechie being first wife and mother of Peter ,and Jannetje being second wife ?

Read it quickly so not sure but maybe some of this can help solve the confusion?

 

http://www.charlescoe.ca/getperson.php?personID=I9888&tree=Koch

greetings from Holland and succes smiley

by Bea Wijma G2G6 Pilot (310k points)

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