what is botforotree?

+11 votes
417 views
this bot or person not sure which is changing profiles with weird spellings and mistakes that then need to be repaired.

What or who is this profile?

 

just one exampe below
WikiTree profile: Jacqueline Onassis
in WikiTree Tech by Vicki Norman G2G6 Mach 2 (21.9k points)
retagged by Keith Hathaway

http://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Bouvier-19&diff=25363188&oldid=25335857

It didn't know how to interpret "รข" so it made "?" ?

4 Answers

+1 vote
 
Best answer
I think it is a normal part of adding new features to complex programs. Bugs happen. It is the reason why many programs start their life as beta-versions, giving an opportunity to find and correct bugs. Unfortunately, beta-versions work for programs used individually on one's own home computer but not for something like WikiTree. Here we have to introduce an innovation and work out the bugs in the only version we have. It should not matter whether it is a change implemented by Chris or whether it is a bot developped by Jonathan. Give feedback and see if the problem can be corrected. We should reserve a final verdict depending on whether that can be achieved or not.

In the long run the potential for bots to help with tedious, repetitive tasks is worth the occasional hiccup in the beginning.
by Helmut Jungschaffer G2G6 Pilot (594k points)
selected by Dale Byers
sorry, Roland, but I'm going to change your best answer selection - I think Helmut has the best one.  It is the kind of level headed attitude that recognizes the need for balance of ensuring data integrity against being able to add new functionality to improve tghe system.
I started useing this bot. If it can help me find more members of a section of my tree that I realy DO NOT want to contact in person I am all for it. Also if it can help with the bio's good as I am not very good with writing. One thing I may suggest the bot do is make a propossal for adding the information before it is added, something simular to the way merges work.
For adding templates that can be done without inteligent intervention but a bot will never be able to correct biographys or sources because there are so many different ways to write both and by just making changes to reflect one opinion (the bot programmers) is against the Wiki principals. if implemented it will only create caos when changes are made in error and waste time in correcting the mess made.  If this becomes the consensus then I guess we had all beter start looking for a better site soon.
Gaile please do not use my name in any of your efforts to change the way sources are added because with your attitude about even the possibility of using bots for "correcting " sources I want no association with any sourcing "improvements".

Yes I am not happy.
That's fine Gaile, I'm not going to start a "Best answer" fight over this question. It's just that most of the answers are discussing if bots should be used or not instead of just answering the question of "what is botforotree?"

I did suggest that a more releavant question, maybe something like "Should bots be used to attempt to perform routine maintenance on profiles?", be asked to discuss bot usage.
Roland

There was a question on if the use of bots should be used but it was flaged and hidden so we can no longer comment there.
Dale, I do see a hidden question which Jon posted to introduce his site/bot that was hidden. I'm guessing that's where discussion on bot usage occured?

Anyway, I'm sure if someone was to ask a question in a neutral tone regarding the automation of edits in general, that it shouldn't get flagged or hidden if the discourse remains civil.
The comments and answers that I saw up until the question was hidden did not look any worse that what is on this line.
Dale,

I think you misunderstand my position on the use of bots.  I am dead set against using them to alter source formatting or any other content within biographies.  I am in favor of exploring potential takss for which they would be very useful to have, such as changing the name of a category tag in all profiles that have that tag.  Please note that even this is not saying outright that I am in favor of using them for that purpose - I am only in favor of exploring their potential value for this.
FYI, I unhid the thread mentioned here. I didn't see any reason for it to remain hidden.
+1 vote
For info check ForoTree-1. It is profile set up to run certain bots on WikiTree.
by Shirley Dalton G2G6 Pilot (530k points)
+6 votes
The main thing this bot did was add a Family Reunion template.

Unfortunately, there was a small bug that affected a small number of profiles. A second bot ran to fix these, but there were still an even smaller number of profiles that couldn't be fixed. I then restored the profile.

This bug is now fixed, so if the bot runs on this profile again, it will not make the same mistake.
by Jonathan Wainwright G2G5 (5.2k points)
Wrong about the changes - this Bot changed all the "   's "  (apostrophe s) to " as",

then someone had to correct all the spellings.

i don't think this bot was any improvement at all.  If you are going to corrupt profiles just to add a template - don't get it.  no value in my mind.
That was the bug that has now been fixed. It was never intentional and all mistakes have now been rectified.

This was an unintentional mistake for which I am very sorry.
But you forget to mention that you had to spend a great deal of time personnaly fixing the problems that your bot created  and most of your "contributions" for yesterday and the day before were to do just that when the bot you created to fix the problem could not do it.  And can you be absolutly sure that you found and fixed every problem and not just the one's others have found so far?
Thank you for all your hard work Jonathan.  Dealing with a few bumps along the way is to be expected.  It's been said here many times here in G2G, no need to appologize for trying to help and do good :)
There are still questions popping up about problems these bots created so the problem has not been totally fixed yet.
Well said, Keith!

Thank you, Jon, for what you're doing. I admire your energy and drive, and you're clearly a brilliant coder. I'm so glad you decided to invest yourself in helping with the WikiTree mission.
+5 votes
I cancelled my membership from the ForoTree site because I do not think the dea of an automated program making changes to sources or biographys of profiles is a very good one for just the reason you mentioned.  The "bot" is programmed by a human and a bug crept in and now either a human has to find all of those errors or they have to be rerun by the bot and hope that it not only fixes the mistake but makes no further mistakes.  As of this morning after about 3 days of running and only a small fraction of our members suscribing it has modified about 5000 profiles.  That is the number of profiles that someone should look at and determine if changes were made that created errors and that time could be better spent with updating existing profiles or creating new one's.  I hope that this type of thing, if it is allowed to continue, is limited to only adding Templates that are simple to check and remove if needed like the GFR template because any other actions could, and have already, cause damage which could also lower our credibility for this kind of site.
by Dale Byers G2G Astronaut (1.7m points)
What happened to "select as best answer"?
The star still shows on my screen.
It didn't show when I read the thread earlier, so I selected as best answer, and the star showing it was chosen came back.

Just now it was gone? :-(  

So I tried again.  We'll see if it stays.
This is not the best answer since it's sharing an opinion on the use of bots, which is a very good discussion topic for another thread. I had selected Jonathan's answer, and will reselct it as the best answer since it actually addresses the question. Jonathan is the author of the bot in question.

I encourage you to start a new thread to discuss if using a bot is a good idea or not.

Roland my answer was not an opinion

Fact 1 I signed up at the ForoTree site

Fact 2 the bot's have made more mistakes than are addressed by the question

Fact 3 an attempt was made to create another bot to fix the mistakes made by the first one

Fact 3 the new bot could not fix all the errors created by the first

Fact 4 profiles then had to have human(s) fix the errors therefore wasting time

Conclusion Errors have been injected into our profiles by an automated system which can and will destroy our credibility if their use is allowed to continue.

Your second fact 3 is incorrect. A bot was coded to fix the simplest cases and identify other affected profiles that needed reverting. I decided that given the relatively small number of profiles, I should do the reverting manually rather than get the bot to do it. It would have been possible to program a bot to do it but it would not have been worth the effort required compared to the time taken to just do it manually. I have apologised for injecting errors into profiles. I accept full responsibility for the mistakes made by my bot, just as I would if I had inadvertently made the mistakes on hundreds of profiles myself (which I could easily have done without a bot). The only credibility that has really been affected here is mine. I am supposed to be a professional programmer and I have let myself down hugely by not checking my code properly and not taking appropriate precautions.
think we should close this discussion.  We now know what a bot is and the purpose  of it.  I opened a new discussion on whether or not bots should be used.
Mistakes are part of progress! I hate to see you apologize for them, Jon.

Two points:

* I saw talk of hiding posts. This should almost never be done. Leaders, see http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Moderating_G2G

* We shouldn't be changing each other's "best answer" selections. I agree with Roland on this, but there's no sense in debating it.

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