How interested are you in seeing autosomal connections on the DNA Confirmation Aid?

Question

WikiTreers, especially DNA project members and genetic genealogists,

The DNA Confirmation Aid (e.g., Peter Roberts', yours is on your pull-down menu) was set up just for Y-chromosome and mitochondrial tests. They're the tests that are most directly beneficial in confirming paternal and maternal relationships. With MitoSearch and YSearch we're even able to offer direct comparison links.

It's been on the to-do list forever to add autosomal test connections to this page. The functionality would be very different. Really, you'd just be able to see a list of other members who might match with you. As many of you know better than me, scientific confirmation of relationships using autosomal DNA tests is very difficult.

It wouldn't be hard to just show the autosomal connections. Personally I think this would still be very useful. I was thrilled to stumble upon some other WikiTree members DNA connections when browsing some of my ancestors' profiles a few weeks ago. It was fun to go to the testing company sites and see if the expected matches were there (and they were). It was a starting point for doing the hard work of chromosome mapping.

How interested are you in seeing these autosomal connections on the DNA Confirmation Aid?

Do you see any downsides? Besides making some of these pages huge, there is the danger that it could mislead some members into even more misuse of the "Confirmed with DNA" selectors. But I don't think that's a reason not to do it.

Thoughts? There's so much on the to-do list. It's always hard to prioritize. I do think enhancing our functionality for genetic genealogists remains an overall priority.

Thanks,

Chris

Comments

Hello Anonymous,

They are build 36.

Sharing the same segment (with its genes) is different from saying Kris, Elizabeth and I share a specific health related issue.  That is because there is not enough information to determine what differences we have from the reference.

Sincerely, Peter

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I know this may a bit off-topic, but there was mention of the "hard work of mapping." I am not a geneticist, and I have only begun to touch the rudiments of DNA and its terminology. I have looked at many pages here on WikiTree regarding DNA, but I haven't found one yet that describes just how to go about "mapping."  But I am sure I am somehow missing something, as I tend not to see the forest for the trees. Thank you to all.

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Hello Lynden,

The auDNA segments you share with cousins come from the ancestors you share with those cousins.  Your auDNA is made up of segments from those ancestors.

See http://blog.kittycooper.com/tools/chromosome-mapper/

Sincerely, Peter

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Look through the resources available on the ISOGG's wiki at http://isogg.org/wiki/Portal:Autosomal_DNA

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Lynden,

With regard to mapping your chromosomes, I highly recommend using the free software that is available through GenomeMate.  You upload your test results to Gedmatch, and then use GenomeMate as well as the free site at DNAGedcom to triangulate your matches and start mapping your chromosomes.  The link to Kitty Cooper's blog which Peter gave you gives you information on exactly what you're doing when you map chromosomes.  To be successful with it, you need to have as extensive a family tree as you can (including the siblings & their spouses & children); I recommend 10 generations.

Darlene

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Update: Autosomal tests are now in the DNA ACA.

Announcement is here: http://www.wikitree.com/g2g/193816/have-distant-cousins-taken-dna-tests-find-out-with-new-dna-aca

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For Adoptees, whose biological families have passed on before they were found, having access to medical indicators would be a huge asset. I believe their would be a way to "sterilize" the information so as to not infringe on heap laws. Sort of, like, Based on your DNA and that of other matches to you, your DNA results indicate that Male pattern baldness, hypertension, and an uncontrollable love for kittens, runs in your DNA. (I know a love of kittens is not a medical condition, I was trying to be funny, I apologize if I offended anyone.) So that you have to match that particular gene to get that information, and it not necessarily tell you your mother gave you the gene to baldness.

I hope to see more DNA information available. I recognize that I am not very well versed in this topic yet, but I hope to learn, and I hope I have not annoyed anyone with my elementary comment.

But the question was, "How interested are you...." so I thought I would chime in.

Thank you all.

Amy

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For medical indicators check out the excellent blog by Roberta Estes:

https://dna-explained.com/2013/12/30/promethease-genetic-health-information-alternative/

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I would like to see this addition.  I am in a Y project.  Getting results is a slow process and unfortunately, all of the others in my line are only 12 markers, and I do not expect much.  A group of us from two different Barnes ancestors are gathering GEDmatch results and I expect to get someone who understands DNA far better than me to analyze our information.  Please make this a priority.

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Since i wrote that comment in 2015, much has happened. In 2016 I found out who my father was through autosomal DNA matching at FTDNA and AncestryDNA. I used what is called - i believe - the Mirror Tree method. I had gotten nowhere with Y-chromosome matches, all of whom were much too distant in time to be meaningful. My father is dead, but i have contact with a a handful of paternal Cousins (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th) who have shared photographs of my father, aunt, uncle, grandparents, great-grandparents, great-great-grandfather, and even great-great-great-grandfather. Autosomal Matches and the analysis of their family trees led me to my father's family. For which i shall forever be thankful to the new science of Genetic Genealogy. So please do include autosomal matches here at WikiTree. My work is not done: I am still looking for the fathers of several of my maternal brothers.

Answer 1

I'm completely in favor of having autosomal connections.  For many people, those are the ones that will help them the most.  I know my dad's Y-DNA traces back to our immigrant ancestor with the Athey Y-DNA group at FTDNA.  My mom's mtDNA has given me clues as to my several times over great-grandmother with the unknown surname.  But the biggest thing is the autosomal DNA and doing triangualation to confirm relationships.  It will be what will break down brick walls.  While I regularly look for new matches on FTDNA and Gedmatch, many people aren't aware of or don't use Gedmatch.  Having information on Wikitree might encourage more people from ancestry to use both Wikitree and Gedmatch and improve our chances of using triangulation to prove connections.

As far as possible confusion with regard to the confirmed with DNA selection, I think that's just a matter of educating people on proper use of it.

Answer 2

It would be most helpful if it was easier to make better use of our autosomal DNA results.  For starters, Close relationships can be confirmed by the amount of shared autosomal DNA.  For example my mother died before I could test her but my relationship to her is confirmed because I share the expected amount of auDNA with her brother.  

Here is the citation I have in my biography when I say I am the child of my mother.<ref>Maternal relationship is confirmed by a 1417.42 cM Family Finder match between  [[Roberts-7085|Peter Roberts]] GEDmatch F008867 and his maternal uncle [[Dekle-6|Dekle-6]] GEDmatch F15373.</ref>

See the expected amounts in the table for Average autosomal DNA shared by pairs of relatives, in percentages and centiMorgans  at http://www.isogg.org/wiki/Autosomal_DNA_statistics

I believe it is safe to use this method out to 3rd cousins or 2nd cousins once removed.

It would be helpful if the DNA Confirmation Aid can make it easier to see that close relatives share the expected amount of autosomal DNA.  Then each parent / child relationship back to the shared ancestral couple can be selected as "Confirmed with DNA."

After we are able to do the above then I suggest we can work on making it easier to use auDNA triangulation to confirm more distant relationships.

Sincerely, 

Comments

This all very interesting. I have a question about writing the DNA justification on profiles. You cite a triangulation match on your mother's profile with tests taken by yourself and your uncle. My mother was an only child. Might I be able to cite the Ancestry.com test I took with that of my half-sister's 23&Me results? I would also include the results drawn through GEDMatch.com.

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You would need to share about 1,700 cMs with your half sister to confirm your shared parent.  

I used an X-DNA match (not triangulation) to confirm my mother's relationship with her mother.  "Maternal relationship is confirmed by a 68 cM X chromosome match from 2710157 to 39412952 between Peter Roberts GEDmatch F008867 and his maternal uncle Dekle-6 GEDmatch F15373."

X-DNA matching between two males does not require triangulation because  they each only have one X chromosome.

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I think I will be able to do that. Thank you.

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The amount of shared DNA can be a red herring in terms of establishing a match.  If you are looking at ancestors who originate from homozygous populations the amount of shared DNA will in the majority of cases be altered.  As a 2nd cousin once removed to another tested individual we share enough DNA to be classified as borderline 1st cousins.  The amount of shared DNA is one of the guiding points for establishing the degree of the relationship.  Also consider where the shared DNA is coming from.   HLA region similarities have the ability to distort some of the perceived more distant relationships.   Look for conserved micro-deletions and copy number variants (CNV) to additional evidence on top of shared segments.

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Hello Wayne,

Please describe how you believe WikiTree could more easily use autosomal DNA and be helpful in confirming a parent child relationship.

Thanks and sincerely, Peter

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Wikitree should be able to capture the reference to an autosomal comparison done via a 3rd party which provides the basis for the confirmation activity. This would include the attachment of a searchable document which contains the comparison details.  The comparison results should be directly linked to the specific parent child records present in the system. Wikitree should NOT be the source of the comparison tool or the maintainer of raw DNA sequence or chip raw data.  Those resources are well developed and available via other providers.  As time goes forward the current base for autosomal comparisons will be shifting off of the current Illumina SNP chip platform. WikiTree will have resource issues of various types trying to keep up with the various technology and analysis paradigm changes.

Answer 3

I support the addition of new tools for working with auDNA.

However, I'm not sure if the DNA Confirmation Aid is the right place for such tools. Currently, the DNA Confirmation Aid is all but useless for me. Consider that on my deceased father's yDNA line, I have to go back at least six generations from my father to find another ancestor who might have living descendants on the male line -- a yDNA connection tool is never going to be awfully interesting to me. For that reason and others, I've never paid much attention to the DNA Confirmation Tool. AuDNA offers a lot more promise for me.

Answer 4

For autosomal triangulation, WikiTree could make it easier to create and work with a table like:

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Roberts-7123_F13628_Triangulated_Groups

A different style of table shows autosomal matches and only WikiTree IDs in bold are Triangulated Groups:

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Roberts-7085#Autosomal_DNA_Matches_Via_Father.27s_Ancestry