Category for AncestryDNA Circles

+18 votes
1.4k views

We have a category setup for AncestryDNA Circles, what does the Categorization Project think of naming conventions for the Categories of individual circles?  

We have two conventions in use at the moment:

AncestryDNA Circle: [Name] (DoB - DoD)

[Wikitree ID] ANCESTRYDNA Circle for [Name]

Thoughts?

in Policy and Style by Andrea Powell G2G6 Mach 4 (45.2k points)
Hello Lance,

My take on what is trying to be accomplished is that the category is not to have the correct ancestor information; but, to be a way for any WikiTreer who shares that AncestryDNA Circle to contact and collaborate with those that do have the correct information.  For that to happen, the circles in the category need to have the name as it appears on AncestryDNA.

If I see - Doright, Dudley, (1842-1903) and  Doright, Dudley (1845-1904) and Ancestry says the circle I am looking for is Doright, Dudley (1845-1904) then I won't check out the first option (at least not until I have finished collaborating with the people in the "right" circle).

Just two cents worth
Greeting! I am trying to get my AncetryDNA category tags up and am having trouble with one. I was wondering if someone would be willing to take a look to see what I am missing, to get my tag out of the red. Thanks ahead of time! Elisa

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Mayfield-182
Looks like you haven't completed steps 3.ii and 4 in my post below.  Even your green ones seem not to be linked up to DNA projects.  I'm only on my phone so can't look at it easily.  Will take another look tonight!
Thanks a bunch!
I thought I was missing a step. Thanks!

I'm trying to create a DNA circle for Owers-95 but I don't know how to link his category [[Category: Owers, Robert,1834 -1918, AncestryDNA Circle]] to the [[Category: AncestryDNA Circles]] as I haven't created categories before. And I haven't a clue how to link him to his page on Ancestry https://www.ancestry.co.uk/dna/tests/42BCB9C5-ED65-42F4-822D-3376C6F039CF/evidence/FZX87KJL

Help Please!

Would be really great to have a step-by-step YouTube tutorial!

I've added the higher level category for you.  You just go into the 'red' category and add [[Category: AncestryDNA Circles]].

 

 

Thanks! I realised eventually that you can "edit" the actual page! So I've now edited it to include the link to the Ancestry website DNA Circle page...and I've added the category to my profile ....now I just have to encourage all the DNA testers who descend from him to a) add their DNA test to a tree on ancestry and extend their tree back to him so they appear in the circle and b) join wiki tree!

There are about 15 of us now that form a "circle" but most don't appear in the Ancestry circle as they don't have a tree attached!
As a member of both, it occurs to me What if the Ancestry user decides not to pay the $ any more and gives up their membership? Will their AncestryDNA info still be active if the membership isn't?
The DNA match will show up on Ancestry even if they don't subscribe, but retain their "free" membership. However, if they decide to delete their DNA from Ancestry, or terminate their membership, then they will no longer appear in the match list or DNA Circles on Ancestry.

5 Answers

+8 votes
 
Best answer

Adding to a very old topic thread rather than starting a new one, in part because it's nothing urgent and in part because the history is here and the associated Category page links to this thread.

This is set-up as a top-level Category, is featured as an "Other DNA Projects" on the DNA Project main page (one of only two so-featured) has 363 subcategories, and the instructions for use includes, "The last step is to link the ancestor category back to the actual AncestryDNA circle on ancestry.com."

However, DNA Circles was a feature that Ancestry.com officially removed as of 1 July 2019. This was replaced by ThruLines. These are two distinctly different features and the links to previous DNA Circles pages at Ancestry are no longer valid and result in a "page not found" error. The WikiTree individual profiles linked under the subcategories are still valid because they're internal to WikiTree, but the outbound Ancestry.com links have not been valid for two years.

Should the WikiTree DNA Project take steps to correct this deprecated feature/function? I would think that, at minimum, the Category should be removed from its position as "featured" on the DNA Project main page and an explanation added to the Category page explaining that this is no longer an active feature.

Edited: To better clarify which links are broken.

by Edison Williams G2G6 Pilot (439k points)
selected by S O'Donley
I agree.  Thank you Edison.
+10 votes

Hello Andrea

I am responding to this question as the creator of this category, even though I am a project member of the Categorisation project too.

This category was created as part of some work I was doing on the DNA confirmation help page.  As you are no doubt aware testing at AncestryDNA  gives matches but no chromosome information.  It has recently started to give some info on the size of the match which is useful, but still nothing can be 'confirmed' without access to the raw data somewhere like gedmatch.

I created this category in an attempt to try and help AncestryDNA 'testers' who had been given 'new ancestors' by AncestryDNA.  It was to encourage them to add their new 'AncestryDNA ancestor' to Wikitree and to have a place where any other DNA 'testers' also identified as part of the circle, could link their profiles and see if Wikitree could help them find a connection.

For those who may not be familiar with AncestryDNA Circles, these are created by AncestryDNA where they identify (how, we are not exactly certain but it must be from chromosome data of some sort and tester/tree comparisons) that certain testers may have an ancestor in common BUT where that ancestor DOES NOT appear in the DNA testers ancestral tree on Ancestry.  If the DNA tester and another AncestryDNA match have a common ancestor in both their trees, they give you a 'shaky leaf'.

When I set up the categories I wrote some instruction for how they were to be set up in the categories themselves, but it appears there are some inconsistencies appearing as you have identified.  I will need to review them.

The intent was to have two main categories:-

1.  'AncestryDNA Circles' - intended to be the overarching category for all 'AncestryDNA ancestors' to be housed.  Linked to DNA Projects as the upper category.  The use of the naming convention styled in the same way as AncestryDNA marketing and spelling conventions throughout WIkitree Help pages.

2. 'AncestryDNA ancestors'.  The intent here was to identify each ancestor in the same way as they appear of AncestryDNA Circles.  This was to enable an easy transition between the two sites, particularly when creating the categories.  So the naming convention for this category name would have three parts:-

i. AncestryDNA Circle (proprietry name).  It was thought necessary to include this to be clear it was connected to AncestryDNA and to make sure they did not get confused with other categories or free space pages set up with an ancestors name;

ii. Ancestor Name - as it appears on AncestryDNA.  By having the name next as they populate in the category they should be in alphabetical order and easily seen if they already exist at the creation point;

iii. DOB-DOD - again as it appears on AncestryDNA. This is to ensure we don't mix up ancestors AND by having them in date order if we have two ancestors of the same name, they should then appear in the category list in date order.

So the steps to follow would be -

1. AncestryDNA identifies new ancestor for a specific AncestryDNA tester;

2. If they haven't already done so, the AncestryDNA tester should create themselves a Wikitree profile, add their DNA test information to their profile and be awarded a DNA tester badge.  Load their results to gedmatch and add their gedmatch ID to the profile;

3. Look for the ancestor on Wikitree. Does an AncestryDNA Circle exist for them already?  

i. If yes, add the 'DNA testers' profile to the appropriate 'AncestryDNA Ancestors' category. If it has been created it should already appear on the ancestors profile;

ii If no, create the AncestryDNA Ancestor Category using the naming conventions above, linking it up to the overarching category 'AncestryDNA Circles'.  Then, add the 'ancestor' and the 'DNA tester' profiles to the newly created category.

4.  The last step is to link the ancestor category back to the actual AncestryDNA circle on ancestry.com.  A link should be added to the 'AncestryDNA Ancestor'  category, which is a direct link back to ancestry.com and shows all the members of that circle - see the 'Larkin Tally DNA Circle'  link inside the 'AncestryDNA Circle: Larkin Tally' category as an example.  Clicking on this link would only be visible to AncestryDNA Circle members.  Only registered members would be able to create it too, as only they would have access to that page on ancestry.com.

I suspect that the other convention that has been created might be a misinterpretation of my instructions.  I see from how it has been set up the DNA testers all have 'DNA Ancestor categories' on them.  Setting them up in this way makes the DNA testers profile look more complicated than it needs to be and the Circle/Ancestor categories don't have an alignment to AncestryDNA which would make them difficult to work with over time.

If anyone has any comments on my methodology I'm happy to take feedback.  If the 'AncestryDNA Circle: [Name] (DoB - DoD)' is considered preferred then I will happily work with others to get the existing categories into a consistent format and add more instruction material to the category pages.

Also happy to help others create categories and links along these lines if they need assistance.

Veronica

 

by Veronica Williams G2G6 Pilot (214k points)

In hindsight I can see that by starting with AncestryDNA Circle they will all end up in 'A'.  Perhaps the category should be:  [Name] (DoB - DoD), AncestryDNA Circle

This is a great idea that I will attempt to implement. Ancestry DNA Circles found a mystery ancestor couple for my father. I have no clue as to where they might fit in to our tree.
Thank you for the detailed reply Veronica.  I really like the idea and would like to add my own AncestryDNA circles.  Thank you for taking the time to think this one through.

Would you add the Category to just the target ancestor and yourself, or add it to each ancestor in the chain?
My idea was just the identified ancestor be linked to it 'AncestryDNA Ancestor Category'  this would only happen once.

DNA testers who find themselves inheriting this ancestor in AncestryDNA would add their profile to the ancestor circle category.  This in time will show other testers in the same circle.  You could then use the relationship finder to see if there was a connection.

DNA testers already in the ancestral line should already appear on the ancestors profile, so comparisons can be made to them too, and vice versa.

We probably need to hold off creating more until we decide the right format for the Ancestor Category.  I'm thinking what I setup should be changed to have the name first so they are found easily in the list.  Hoping some of the categorisation people will comment on this.
I have asked the Categorization Project for some feedback on this
+2 votes
My understanding is that Ancestry circles are some half secret grouping based on DNA matching and uploaded family tree...

At FTDNA we have ICW In Common With and that we a estimated relationship and the result list

------------------------

Both Ancestry and FTDNA has weakness that Wikitree can help eliminate one such step is that we group together people at Wikitree in the same way as people are grouped at Ancestry and FTDNA

------------------------

Suggestion create a naming convention that also

1) work for FTDNA

2) Is easy to understand e.g. at Gedmatch we have F320352 ==> F indicates its a test kit from FTDNA and 320352 is the number...
by Living Sälgö G2G6 Pilot (296k points)
FTDNA don't present you with ancestors like AncestryDNA does.  So I don't think there can be a parallel process for FTDNA.  This is really just suitable for Ancestry in my opinion.

The main focus is the ancestor.  One category per ancestor.  Multiple testers, link their profiles to the ancestor circle category.

It is to create an alternate place to group together DNA testers (only ones from ancestry) who don't know how they link to the ancestor presented to them by AncestryDNA.  Known descendants who are DNA tested at any other company will have their profile linked via the existing process of populating tests up the line.

Isnt it the same same but different names  and the end user has the same problem. How to connect based on DNA and family tree information

Ancestry has a secret mix of DNA triangulation and then they do a wild guess to find a common ancestor that they think is the "glue" 

At FTDNA you get ICW and an estimated distance.... but they dont guess for a common Ancestor....
----------------------------------
If Ancestry was sure that this person is in common why dont they generate the whole tree for every who has done the test ;-)
 

I've seen a lot of commentary this week on the thought that in the future they will be able to produce genetic trees!  I can see its the same problem.  However, I think creating a Wikitree set of categories for individuals ICW's isn't necessary.  I would use personal categories or a  'To do' list for that purpose.  Just my opinion.

>>  that in the future they will be able to produce genetic trees!

In Sweden we have a saying "att koka soppa på en spik" compare english stone soap ;-)

That is my feeling. You have the following information

  1. Who also are more or less DNA cuisines
  2. What other people are related to each other that are related to me
  3. What DNA segments are people sharing
  4. What paper trails do they have
==> you have today too many unknown to be able to create automatic family trees.... is my humble opinion
 
Certainly seems a long way off...

But who believed in the 1800 that we could in 2015 track a father unknown....

Problem I feel is a company like Ancestry is not transparent with what they are doing.... what are the criteria in cM or shared segments... do they filter out piled-up segments

As not a big fan of the green leaves without sources approach I feel not 100% sure that they do the right things.... to help us....

We are getting a little off track here.  The original question was about the structure of the category names.  Do you have any suggestions or comments about that Mangus?
Ancestry will not consider or show you an ancestor in your own tree or in someone else's without a source attached to it, (this is where it falls flat, because the wrong or incorrect source could be applied) all of my DNA circles have sourced trees attached save for maybe 2 that I have yet to add or figure into my tree. The site has an extremely large printable PDF called a "whiteboard" that explains in full detail how they "wildcard" (they don't) matches. Really, the only thing lacking, is the information on WHICH chrome you match on, and where. It really is the same as looking at someone's gedcom on GEDmatch, and matching the shared ancestor in the tree with all the other people who match on a specific segment, only ancestry took the work out of figuring it out for you. They don't "just guess" and send you a shared relative hint (the leaf) for a person who does not match your grandparent exactly with name, and DOB/DOD. They even line up the lineage for you, just the same as the way wikitree shows me my separation from Kevin Bacon of all people.

That being said, do I add the DNA circle info on my own profile, with the info (as shown above) for the relative I've been put into a circle for? Is this circle idea mainly set up for users who don't know how they are related to said circle of decendents of said ancestor? I manage my half brother's DNA on ancestry, and I also am having a time over on his tree, and because I haven't gotten it right with anyone yet, he still has not been lumped into a circle. My cousin only started getting put into circles once he started started getting "assumed" confirmed relative matches, all of whom are legit via paper trail, but circles seem to only be assigned to a person who has a tree with DNA matches. I would love to add some circles I'm in, I know my path to 23 out of 25, but have a really hard time with terminology on this site. Example: adding link to me, is copy/paste an address from my web browser, so that when you click on it, you are taken directly from that page. I think on this site, it doesn't mean that at all, and I am assuming that you have to manually type in all your magic punctuation to make something a "link"? Image examples sometimes make a world of wonders for people who don't remember DOS and the magic boillion cubes to insert our photos and what not. No idea what it's called, btw, something similar to boillion cubes-Boolean?. Like how you had to get a mile long code from photobucket to be able to post a photo on MySpace 15 years ago.

I just read #4 for instructions from Veronica (sorry, no offense, really Veronica- I know the end result is to be something awesome and totally useful to tree researchers and it probably is totally understandable to others who have been here helping build the site into how cool it is, once you get the hang of it) and the first sentence, well, ya lost me. I tried reading the instructions page, but it makes no sense at all, at least to me, someone who visits this site about once a week- 2 weeks, and have spent much of the time trying to understand what is happening.

Then the question from me, the newb, when entering my soupy link to the DNA circle main man or woman, is this typed in the same place where you type in sources and bio's on my profile page? I would go into my profile, click on the green "edit" button, scroll down past my name and birth info, until I saw the long white section that has ==bio==, etc, correct? Add my guy, and scroll scroll scroll to find the save button, and we are gold, yes? Is there a way to find DNA circles for an individual from my home page, or profile page? Or do I need to bookmark this conversation in my browser to find the link to the category?
Hello Erin

I can totally understand how you might be feeling, being new to the site. Wikitree needs time to learn, I know I was very frustrated when all my usual formatting type tricks didn't work in the beginning.  My main advice would be to use the help menu and ask questions like this in G2G.

As far as these categories go, you are right that they were originally developed to help people who didn't know how they fitted into a circle, really it now applies to whats known as 'New Ancestor Discoveries - NAD's.  Hopefully NAD's become circles!

Ideally anyone with a known DNA connection to the ancestors should have their DNA test annotated on their profile and it should then appear up the line on the ancestor page.  Any testers who have triangulated matches with other descendants should be adding DNA notes and GEDmatch ID's as part of the DNA confirmation in sources.  So no real advantage in adding them to these categories.

Adding the link to you is so that people can go back to your profile and then follow you tree - this is whta the link would be, it's wiki language I'm afraid (don't know the technical term) -  [[Van Zante-9|Erin Van Zante]]

#4 - is adding a link back to your Ancestry DNA page for the DNA circle. It's using the old way of cutting an pasting, but adding a bit to it, so you get a name rather than seeing the whole link, eg  [link TextName]. Only subscribers who are members of that DNA circle will be able to access the link and if there are more than one DNA circle at ancestry more than one link will need to be added.  The idea was really to help you navigate between the two sites, it works for me on my circles.  If I am looking at Wikitree and decide I want to switch back to Ancestry I just click the link and it takes me back to the circle on AncestryDNA.  If it's set up correctly it saves opening a new page and then navigating back to the circle on AncestryDNA.

Hers a link from the help pages about 'adding links' - https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Adding_Links

Yes, you add what I have been calling a link (but is really a 'category') on the bio as you suggest.  If you add the AncestryDNA circle category to your profile you can go directly there.  Have a look at my profile as I have some set up there.  Once you are at the circle, step up in the category links to the overarching AncestryDNA Circles page.  There is a link on the main page to this discussion.  Halfway down the page.

You can also bookmark this discussion in your own G2G page by clicking the grey + at the top of this page.  This saves it as a favourite.

Hope this helps

Veronica
+10 votes

I'm putting forward the suggestion from Jan Salsbery in the Categorization Google Group:

Ancestor Last Name, First Name, DOB-DOD, AncestryDNA Circle.

It gets my vote.  

Edited to remove space in between Ancestry and DNA as Veronica said.

by Maryann Hurt G2G6 Mach 9 (90.7k points)
edited by Maryann Hurt

Happy to move forward with this with one exception, using the Ancestry proprietry name:

Ancestor Last Name, First Name, DOB - DOD, AncestryDNA Circle.

 

I am still very confused about how to construct an AncestryDNA category, and how are they to be utlized?
Happy to help if I can.  Feel free to message me privately with specific details and I can help you create it.  The category is meant to assist with collaboration of Wikitreer's connected to specific ancestors, as identified by AncestryDNA.  It is by no means obligatory.  If your DNA profile is already showing on the profile page of the ancestor, but you have been connected to the ancestor in an Ancestry Circle, I would just add the the Ancestry Circle Category to your ancestor to indicate a circle exists at AncestryDNA.  If your DNA profile is not listed on the ancestor as your relationship is unknown, create the Ancestor Circle category and connect both the profile of the ancestor AND yours to the category.  In time, when there are more profiles attached to the ancestor you will be able to collaborate with the other testers.  Hope this helps.
Thanks Veronica.
Thank you, Veronica. I will send you a sample to you soon.
My question would be, what if the CA is a couple? Would there be any benefit of choosing one over the other? Would you choose both, for possible future additions?
I would expect you would identify the couple unless of course you had DNA confirmations that made you confident the DNA match was definitely coming from an identified ancestor further back from one of them.
Yeah, I seem to have a couple places of 2nd cousins marrying, and my Quaker branches have multiple siblings marrying multiple siblings from another family. I try to include every child in each of my ancestor research, and have found that my own father marrying my maternal grandmother - is not really as odd as many of the marriages waaaay back. :)
+3 votes
I see this discussion is nearly a year old. I'm responding with an "answer" rather than a comment, not so much that I have a real answer, but that I'd like to revive the question for an update. Has there been a more recent follow-up on categorization for atDNA? I haven't gone as deep into atDNA as I would like, but see it as an important matter to organize and integrate.
by Douglas Beezley G2G6 Mach 3 (35.9k points)
Discussions about using categorization as a stronger tool for DNA is in the works.  Feel free to start up a new thread on G2G to get people talking about it and to come up with ways to implement it.  Thanks!

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