Should all relatives with German ancestors get the German Roots template?

Question

at the Template section of the German Roots project it says, "Copy and paste the following template on profiles that have German ancestry."

Does this mean you can add it to any ancestor / relative who has German ancestors or should it be limited to just those with say parents and grandparents who lived in Germany?

Looking at some of the posts where this was asked before there seems to be some disagreement.  For my current purposes I'm going to put the German Roots template on all my ancestors going back to a German source.  That still leaves with what to do about ancestors from the German speaking part of Switzerland and from Strasbourg which has alternatively French and German (presently French)

Comments

I changed this comment into an answer.

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Please let me know once they settle this out because now I'm entirely confused who the template should go on.  I was putting it on my ancestor's that came from Germany to the US but now i can see how everyone else makes sense. Maybe the project owner should outline this.

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I love to join the German roots Project as I have Brechts, Berkheimers, Scheaffer, Doerrer, and others love to help out with project.

Billie

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Albertus, How does one "change the comment into an answer"? Right now there'a a surge of avoiding "comment" but why?

and YES,  Zolya, It would be advisable to have the program coordinator brush us up!!

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I no longer remember how, why and when i changd my comment into an answer. Too long ago! And since my own comment/answer, i have given myself the German Roots badge as well as the English Ancestor Sticker. {{German_Roots}} {{English Ancestor Sticker}} . For those born in England there is a nice sticker too!
{{England Sticker}}

Answer 1

So, as a German I'm not allowed to put the `German roots` template/badge on my profile (as some expressed that only immigrants are allowed to carry such a badge)?

Or I'm not allowed to carry this badge as I'm not a typical German, I don't drink much beer, don't like `Fussball`, don't wear Sandals and white undershirts over a big bear belly?

Again, like I expressed in many similar threads before, the word `Roots` implies where one's ancestors are from, if we follow traditions, speak their language, are immigrants or not. It all doesn't matter. Donald Trump has German roots (and not Swedish like his father lied). Barack Obama has African roots but also has German roots (you might didn't know that).

If you want to search for immigrants in the US with German ethnic background then use the appropriate category for this. But please don't tell me I'm not allowed to put the `German roots` badge on my own profile or that of my ancestors that had German ancestors as well.

Because we do have German roots (in my own case German, Italian, Czech and according to my DNA also Scandinavian! Remember, we're all a mixture of the ethnic background of our ancestors. Why not show that diversity?

If we would put up a badge on the 20-25 million soldiers profiles that were killed worldwide in WWII, would you argue that we can't do that as we would tag too many of them?

That's why we have to differentiate between a category and a template IMO.

The former is for searching, the later is just for displaying information.

Comments

I agree with Andreas West. I think it is up to the individual to decide what roots tags they want on their ancestors and relatives in their trees.

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Andreas,

The problem with using 'roots' templates without any sort of limits is that a person could have dozens of different roots meaning dozens of templates - there is a technical limit on the total bytes of information that can be transcluded by all templates used on a single profile - once that limit is exceeded templates simply stop 'working' on the profile. There is also an argument to be made against 'cluttering' a profile with too much 'filler' (particularly if there is not much substance to the profile to start with). As I suggested in my previous answer what roots (or any other templates for that matter) that are attached to a given profile needs to be considered on a case-by-case basis. In my opinion, if you consider yourself German use that roots template, if you consider yourself German-Italian use both, a German-Italian-Czech? use all three, but don't just add a roots template because one of hundreds of ancestors is discovered that happens to come from a particular place.

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Hi Andreas

I agree that we shouldn't be adding all the profiles with different ethnic roots templates to corresponding ethnic root categories.  You can also use other templates, eg (see http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hood-1072 for what they look like on a profile):

{{Nonmigrating Ancestor
|flag=Flags_of_Australian-5.png
|location=Native of Queensland
|addinfo= (born, married, and died in Brisbane)
}}

{{User Ethnicity|flag=Flags-5.png|fraction=|ethnicity=Australian}}

{{Nonmigrating Ancestor
|flag=Australian_Images.png
|location= {{Name}} was a Queenslander.<br />Part of the [http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:Australia Australia Project]
|addinfo=
}}

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I agree with Maryann, if I were to put "German Ancestry" plates on all of my ancestors of German origin, I would entirely paper my mother's side of the family- even though most of them are five generations from their immigrant source. Yes, they speak German and would pass any DNA test in point of origin, but then again, so did my mother who clearly was ethnically American and was married to a person who was clearly exclusively of Scottish and English extraction. And thoroughly American. It's how we identify that counts!

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I wholly agree with Andreas. We do not need to split hairs. My fathr was born in Germany, so both he and I have German Roots. According to whom? Me and him, and probably my sons, if they had an interest. Dad also has some Jewish Roots, thus that Icon is on his tree and my tree, and yes, we are thoroughly American.

Answer 2

I'm inclined to be very frugal in this regard. My ancestry is very basic - English on one side and French on the other, although the French is via New France, Mauritius, Reunion and Seychelles. Some of the real mutts, and I mean that in the nicest possible manner, among us would end up with more templates than they do biography.

I don't know if some of these templates originate from a US-centric view - German settlers in the US may be worthy of note, but I don't see the need to distinguish that someone is from a population as large as the German one. And, as you suggest, there is the question of what is German when you go back in time. So I would no more be likely to tag someone with the German Roots template than I would with an equivalent English one, i.e. not at all.

Comments

My family descends from German lines, Germans have some behavior that is specified to being German and if you have double lines, Germans often married other Germans, they often moved almost like a tribe , so it is interesting to note at what point in time they marry outside of Germans.

So many of the wikitree profiles do not show the parents, do not show the location, so it is helpful to know where they originate from.

A sampling of German lines I descend from Schneider ,Sniders and Snyders,Jager/Yager, House, Stroud/Stroup,Crigler Klar

One of my lines descend from members of the Second Colony in Germanna. My Stroupes are direct ancestors to President OBama.

 

 

 We might consider comparing how other root projects are used. My German ancestor were proud of being German.

Answer 3

I'm only putting it on the children of those ancestors who immigrated from Germany.  I think we could end up overwhelming some profiles with templates.  But that's my opinion, YMMV.

Answer 4

It really needs to be considered on a case-by-case basis... for example, did the person 'identify' with a particular culture? Did they speak the language of their ancestors? Did they observe traditions of their ancestors that are not typical in their society? Do they belong to any organizations that maintain a tie to their ancestry?

As an example, I have Dutch Ancestors - as a child my parents had me leave out a wooden clog with hay and carrots and on December 5th we would have pepernoten, and I received gifts to celebrate Sinterklaasavond. I also have Scots Ancestors but growing up there was no St. Andrew's Day celebrations, no Burns night, no kilts. For me a Dutch Roots template is appropriate, but not one for Scottish Roots.

A schoolmate of mine went to 'German-School' each weekend - usually spoke German at home, dinner at their house usually included schnitzel, spaetzle or dumplings, and the individual belonged to the German Canadian Club - While only one set of great-grandparents were born in Germany I would definitely say this individual had "German Roots" as they identified with and maintained that heritage for multiple generations in their new country.

I think as a more objective criteria, and subject to exceptions as illustrated above, Nan's suggestion of adding the template to the "second generation" (i.e. children of migrants) is reasonable in the majority of cases.

Comments

Rob Ton:

The word "roots" after any nationality adjective (German, American, Japanese) means that the family history (note HISTORY, i.e., the past) was located in that nation and nationality through time. We are all children of immigrants, a point for all of us to remember. When we return to our historical roots, we then become migrants if we go there and put roots down in that nation's earth.

THUS: Your paragraph one: none of that matters.

Paragraph two: you're denying your Scots Roots. Ditto, Paragraph 3.

Paragraph four: non-essential.  The "second gen" kids all have German roots. I was born in the USA and I am not the child of an immigrant but a child of an American naturalized citizen (his designation changed at 4 yrs old who lived through most of his 60s in the US and stopped speaking German only at about 7 yrs old (no record, sorry) and only had American habits of thought and life. That is, he was only genetically German, through his mother and perhaps his father gave him some too. But he was also Jewish. Thus he and I have the "Jewish Roots" logo on our pages. My sons? I don't remember what I put in for them, and they don't care.

**  PS: I didn't mean to sound so crabby. Just a bit impertinent. (I hope you're smiling.)

Answer 5

I use the ''German Roots'' template only for those of my ancestors - such as my paternal Grandfather - who were full-blooded German. For myself both ''German Roots'' and ''English Roots'' are appropriate, as I am half-half. For those who were born in a German land, however, but who emigrated to another country, such as the USA, i prefer to use the template ''XY emigrated from Germany to the USA''. Though i could also use ''German Roots'' for them as well, but i have decided to limit the use pf ''German Roots'' to those who were born outside of a German land. A propos, the word ''German'' includes not only modern-day Germany, but also all adjacent regions which are/were ethnically German, such as East Prussia, Austria, Süd-Tirol, Luxemburg, Lichtenstein, Elsass (Alsace), Lotharingen, Sudetenland, and the German-Swiss cantons.

Answer 6

The German Roots template was established as a project template, but as currently implemented by many users, it is a "recognition box."

I hope the project leadership can determine what scope the project is able and willing to take some responsibility for, then use project templates for that scope, and let people who want to declare German ancestry use a recognition template.

Note that I have an interest in keeping and promoting the Palatine Migration template as a project box within that project.

Comments

Ellen, in the case that the German Roots project's leaders  want to designate a scope, wouldn't all roots projcects' leaders need to follow suit?

I ask because it took me weeks to get the Jewish Roots project set up. I care.

Answer 7

If you were born in Germany you have German Roots.

If you were born from people who were born in Germany, you have German Roots.

If your Grandparents or Great Grandparents, etc were born in Germany, you have German roots.  

You can have multiple roots if you descend from mixed nationalities.  (notice I did not say ethnicity as that is different).

If your family lived in Alsace or Lorraine you have depending upon the time frame, dual roots as that area went back and forth.  Before 1871 Germany as we know it did not exist.  German culture did but not nationality. You might have Hessen roots,, Prussian roots, Bavarian roots but since those were not Germany at that time can you have German roots?  Because we are supposed to be accurate in locations I am wondering if that then needs to follow into these templates?  I don't know.  I think some of the template use is clear and there are questions about other uses.  The project needs to come to consensus and amend the instructions.

Comments

Did that ever happen, Laura?

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I am sorry Roberta, did what ever happen?

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Laura,  in yr note of June 8, you say,The project needs to come to consensus and amend the instructions."

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Roberta if you read the entire thread people are confused by the instructions.  Hence my note...

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Yes, Laura, I knew that people were confused.  I asked about your final sentence because your directions in it seemed so firm and not to be challenged.

I think the matter is wrapped up now.