Moses Stanley, John or someone else for Margaret's father?

Question

Received this message some time ago from a mutual descendant:

"I do not think that Moses Stanley is the father of Margaret Stanley Thornton. I believe that her father is John Stanley (Stanley-307). I am not sure how to proceed with this information."

Frankly, I'm not sure, having cogitated and researched for over a month.  Any folks want to hazard a guess as to Margaret's dad? Jump on in.

Comments

Just adding Margaret's profile link:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Stanley-2548

Her profile at FamilySearch (login required) adds Thomas Stanley to the mix:

https://familysearch.org/tree/person/9M7F-ZPN/details

All we need are some relevant sources!

 

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Thanks, Lindy, my addled brain forgot to do this!

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Quaker Meeting record says Thomas Stanley

 All Results

Margaret Stanley

 in the U.S., Quaker Meeting Records, 1681-1935

VIEW

Name:	Margaret Stanley
Marriage Date:	14 Mar 1789
Marriage Date on Image:	14 Third 1789
Marriage Place:	Richmond City, Virginia
Residence Date:	14 Mar 1789
Residence Date on Image:	14 Third 1789
Event Type:	Marriage
Monthly Meeting:	Richmond and Cedar Creek Monthly Meetings
Historical Meeting Data:	Search for this monthly meeting in the 'Quaker Monthly Meetings Index'
Type (Orthodox or Hicksite):	Pre-Separation
Yearly Meeting:	Baltimore Yearly Meeting
Meeting State:	Virginia
Meeting County:	Richmond City

Source Citation

Haverford College; Haverford, Pennsylvania; Minutes, 1775-1789; Collection: Philadelphia Yearly Meeting Minutes; Call Number: 1116/222

Source Information

Ancestry.com. U.S., Quaker Meeting Records, 1681-1935 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2014.

Original data:

• Swarthmore, Quaker Meeting Records. Friends Historical Library, Swarthmore College, Swarthmore, Pennsylvania.
• North Carolina Yearly Meeting Minutes. Hege Friends Historical Library, Guilford College, Greensboro, North Carolina.
• Indiana Yearly Meeting Minutes. Earlham College Friends Collection & College Archives, Richmond, Indiana.
• Haverford, Quaker Meeting Records. Haverford College, Haverford, Pennsylvania.

 

 

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 All Results

Margaret Stanley

 in the U.S., Quaker Meeting Records, 1681-1935

VIEW

Name:	Margaret Stanley
Marriage Date:	9 May 1789
Marriage Date on Image:	09 Fifth 1789
Marriage Place:	Richmond City, Virginia
Residence Date:	9 May 1789
Residence Date on Image:	09 Fifth 1789
Father:	Thomas Stanley
Event Type:	Marriage
Monthly Meeting:	Richmond and Cedar Creek Monthly Meetings
Historical Meeting Data:	Search for this monthly meeting in the 'Quaker Monthly Meetings Index'
Type (Orthodox or Hicksite):	Pre-Separation/Orthodox
Yearly Meeting:	Baltimore Yearly Meeting
Meeting State:	Virginia
Meeting County:	Richmond City

Source Citation

Haverford College; Haverford, Pennsylvania; Minutes, 1779-1901; Collection: Philadelphia Yearly Meeting Minutes; Call Number: 1116/235

 

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There's a child missing

 All Results

Anthony Thornton

 in the U.S., Sons of the American Revolution Membership Applications, 1889-1970

VIEW

Name:	Anthony Thornton
Birth Date:	14 Oct 1790
Death Date:	1855
SAR Membership:	73664
Role:	Ancestor
Application Date:	2 Mar 1951
Father:	George Thornton
Mother:	Margaret Stanley
Spouse:	Nancy Twyman
Children:	Jackson LaFayette Thornton

Source Information

Ancestry.com. U.S., Sons of the American Revolution Membership Applications, 1889-1970 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2011.

 

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Yep, Lindy...relevant sources would help. Might be a different person, this Margaret...seem unlikely that she was a Quaker, too many soldiers on both sides later, Confed &Union. but I've been gobsmacked before!

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First, just up with no caffeine, no nicotine, so I'm not firing on all synapsis yet.

The dates are wrong in the profile. IF Stanly was a Quaker and those dates came from Quaker records. Quakers used the ancient calendar, which begin in March. September, October, November and December are Latin 7, 8, 9, 10 months.

 

added:

And I haven't absorbed all of Eddie's (waving to friend) work yet.

Also, the Quakers weren't as docile as people might think. They were known to streak (that old song still plays in my head every time I think of it) the Baptist services. And yes, I'm sure the Baptists retaliated in some manner.  

The Religious wars in Virginia are something to be studied.

 

added again...

http://www.swarthmore.edu/friends-historical-library/quaker-calendar

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There were a good many Quakers who picked up rifles to fight in the Revolution, among them, General Nathaniel Greene.

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathanael_Greene

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For one without stimulants, you are sharp as a tack, Lynette! Would have never thought through the issue of differing calendars without your insight.  

I doubt that Stanley was a Quaker but certainly that tradition did not follow down through his immediate descendants. Nancy Lewis Thornton Cook (George Thornton's daughter and also my great-great grandmother) was Pro-Confederate and came from a southern slave-owning family while her spouse, Paschal Cook (b: 1811) was decidedly pro-Union. Both sides of the family appear to have a military tradition.

Baptists in the family? Possibly. Ministers in the family? Definitely and documented. Quakers (with no clergy)...unlikely.

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Well, someone married into the Hutchins, and the Hutchins were Quakers. To marry out of Unity would mean to be disowned by the community.

The Quakers didn't have marriage as we would call it. The couple would present themselves to the committee and announce their desire to be married. And have a series of interviews to determine if their intent was serious and their hearts true, not just to their relationship, but also their religion. And their marriages were recorded in Monthly Meeting Minutes and their standing in the community following the marriage. And they could divorce with permission from the committee. The Quakers didn't believe in Civil services and were relatively anti-gov, as evidenced in the profle by the refusal to pay Tithing Tax.

Robert White m. Tabitha Alford and had John who may or not be my ancestor. Tabitha evidently left and Robert remarried. He was disowned because his wife was still living.

The Jesters and Sweets of NC had a 50 year relationship that produced at least 2 marriages, and were disowned but may have regained unity.  They could regain unity by petitioning the committee and the Non-Quaker spouse becoming a member of the Society.

(Half cup down getting there.)

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Have to say that this is the most educational and interesting thread that I've been on in a longtime-and its "mind-bending" too!  Thanks, all of you...pretty good for half a cuppa joe.

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I find these two statements interesting.

• John Stanley (Thomas) was christened on 11 October 1691 at St. Peter's Episcopal Parish, New Kent Co VA. He married [#2] Martha Hutchins, daughter of Nicholas Hutchins and Mary Watkins, on 11 October 1743 at Hanover Co VA. He died on 17 July 1783 at Hanover Co VA.
• On 4 February 1724 at Cedar Creek Meeting House, Hanover Co VA, John, of Cedar Creek PM, was reported by Thomas Stanley as being imprisoned for refusal to pay tithes or priests wages, next month he was freed, his fines paid against his will by a non-Quaker.

So at one time the Stanly's were Episcopal but someone evidently converted. 

 

 

Answer 1

Several Quaker "colonies" went to IN and OH and started Meetings. They also converted to LDS in the early days also.  

I also want to caution about using Baptism and Christening dates as birth. dates. Baptism and/or Christening could occur at ANY time after birth, even YEARS. Some religions didn't baptize till the person was of an age of reckonnning  At the conversion of one religion to another. A naming ceremony. So a study of the religion of the ancestor and rites associated with that religion is a must.

Answer 2

It's been quite some time since I went through and formatted the bios and sourced this Stanley family, but from my sources, there is no record of John Stanley (Stanley-307) ever having a daughter by the name of Margaret.

John, son of Thomas, was a founding member of the Cedar Creek Meeting House. It is thought that the Father Thomas was a half-hearted Quaker and the boys were actually raised into the faith by the Mother.

I hope to get back to this family one day soon, but have been too tied up in the world of the living in recent months to devote much time or focus on Tree Swinging.

-Cope

Comments

Also note, John's Brother Thomas had a daughter named Margery, but she married Ellyson NOT Thornton.