Question

What good is Ydna, if I don't receive any matches?

Comments

If you are using FTDNA and are not seeing any matches try checking your settings.

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What Lynda said. From your yDNA results page at Family Tree DNA, there's a pulldown option to view matches based on the 12-marker panel, 25-marker panel, and 37, 67, and 111, if you've tested that high. If you aren't seeing viable matches at, say, 67 markers, back it up to 37 and check. There are still a lot of older kits on file that have only 12 markers tested. If you're a perfect 12-marker match with one of these in the same surname, it may well be worth an attempted contact.

I went almost a year before I had my first yDNA match, even at 12 markers...but that was in 2004 when there weren't many test kits on file yet. ;-)

If this isn't the issue, maybe you could elaborate a bit so we can try to offer some help.

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There aren't any matches on marker 37, marker 25 or marker 12

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Are you zero matches at all panel levels, or are some appearing but showing a numeric Genetic Distance?

That you are uncertain about your biological father's surname does complicate things. If you were confident about that, you could at least browse the associated surname DNA project at FTDNA to see, if nothing else, if you might be able to identify grouped family lines that you can positively rule out as connected to you.

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Which Haplogroup did FTDNA assign you to Michael?

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I thought the same thing. I tested my brother for my dads line and my husbands cousin for his favorite grandpas male line. We got a match at 1801 Alfred Moore. Thats nice but I wanted to go back further then 1801. Moore is a common name I thought more matches. I will take another look at the older tests though, I did see the pulldown screen, but thought they were too far away to do anything with.

Maybe more people will test and you will get more matches.

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I recently met a person who only one 12 match. Usually there are hundreds or thousands. Looking at the results in the first 12 and comparing them to others who match me at the 25, 37, 67 and 111 levels I see the reason why they had practically no matches.

 

The vast majority of people have nearly identical results at that level. This person had 4 out of 12 that were different from others in the group. This person had matches at the 25, 37 and 67 level! This individual had 7 or 8 matches at those levels. So, what is going on?

This person is a member of a rare group with a unique set of results. The members of this group have 6 nulls at 37, 8 more at 67 and and 5 when tested at Y-11.

Because this small group only match others with this same combination of results they rarely get any matches except at level 12. This one person matches everyone at upper levels, but not at 12. Thus, only one match in their case.

If you have multiple zeros in your results you will not have many matches except for others who have like results.

These multiple deletions are not processing errors! These people have a unique set of family markers that make research challenging!  Several have a common surname, but usually the surnames are different.

Currently, there is a standard of 4 mismatches which results in very few matches being found for this unique group.

I have made a proposal to create a new project titled Multiple Nulls. This project will provide a forum for a small group who currently have no place to match others. You have likely seen individuals with multiple nulls in projects.  Their results stand out starkly from all the others if you do a Find Zeros!  My propose project will provide a place us who have multiple nulls or deletions.

I started my Prouse/Prowse Project a couple of years ago with a few members. The majority of our group have multiple deletions. We need to get the word out to all those who have multiple deletions so the can find others with similar results. I am now waiting for the approval of the Multiple Null Project.  In the meantime, if you have or know of others who have multiple nulls and very few matches to look at the Prouse/Prowse Project.

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Rand Prouse, that is a good idea. I am looking forward to your project updates, and what you discover. I have not notices your surname before, I look at lots of trees trying to find common links or connections. And look at some census records page by page.  i have heard of the name Rouse though, my husband knew a Rouse, I might be interested in getting him tested and see if Rouse is a branch or variation of Prouse.  Thanks for sharing.

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Thank you, April!  I hope my proposed project is approved.  Multiple nulls have been ignored because they are not understood.  Being out of the mainstream there isn't much interest because we don't understand them. Some people feel that are errors in the processing of the results. My two sons were tested and we have identical results.  If this was a random error in processing it seems unlikely that we would have identical results.  When I saw others with the identical markers I thought I had  found other Prouse/Prowses.  Others who match my results have different surnames. There was either a non parental event or an adoption.  Perhaps it goes back to before surnames.  Hopefully we will find others when we have a home for them.

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Rand, that is an excellent write-up. I'd give you a gold star if I could. I should now go back and look at my brother's YDNA to see if this is happening to us.

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Let me know what you found.

Answer 1

Y-DNA is good for tracing or verifying your paternal line (that is, your father's father's father, etc. -- typically the line you get your surname from).

For it to be useful, you have to have other testers in your paternal line.

If there are men who are supposed to share a paternal-line ancestor with you, but they don't match your Y-DNA, that suggests that one of your has an error in your genealogy, or possibly an adoption or other non-paternity event.  And if you are uncertain of your paternal-line ancestry (perhaps you suspect a non-paternity event), and you find a person who matches you on Y-DNA, that could be a clue to your ancestry.

But if you haven't yet met a stranger who shares your Y-DNA, it's possible that nobody has tested yet.

Autosomal DNA finds DNA relatives on any line of descent, so if you are fishing for unknown relatives, it's the test to use.

Comments

Exactly so. Sadly, we can't match folks who haven't tested. :(

Answer 2

I think the short answer is that it's not of much immediate use if you don't get matches.  But as Lynda suggests, that's somewhat dependent on where you tested, where your data is available for comparison, and what the criteria for the comparison are.  It's also very dependent on who else in your paternal line has tested.  I tested with FTDNA about 3 years ago and have also gotten very few matches, none all that close.  (That was a little surprising, since there is a historical society devoted to my surname, and it was sponsoring discounted Y-DNA tests at the time.)  The other thing to keep in mind is that the chance of matches ought to improve over time as more and more people get tested.  Eventually there should be new customers who will find you to be a match and will want to take a look at your ancestral line.

All that's from a member who is barely literate on DNA and struggles to spell it!  I think Peter and Kitty are the main experts on the subject here, and hopefully they may have some better insights.

Comments

I haven't a Paternal Surname to know for sure. The fathers name on my BC says Finley. But who's to know if that name is real? I had been in contact with what would have been a 3rd cousin but nothing matched. WE tried GEDmatch and Myhertiage autosomal data.

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Hey did you do autosomal testing? I might contact you about Finley, that name pops up often when I am looking at both my dads cousins and my mothers cousins. I am curious how common that name is. I do not see it on my husbands cousins, but I can double check. I will have a Finley researcher contact you also. Maybe we can get more people to test I am curious about that name. Maybe in a few months I can help buy some tests or for sure when Family Tree DNA goes on sale, I would buy a couple. Maybe it will help me do autosomal cousins so I can take my lines back further and figure out how I can connect.

Answer 3

Hey Michael!

I understand your frustration with having paid for tests and seemingly not having any results.  Just to give you some perspective on this issue, please take a look at Judy Russell's 2017 edition of a classic blog post of her's with the simple advice to "fish in every pond" when looking for biological parents:

http://www.legalgenealogist.com/2017/01/08/dna-testing-for-adoptees-2017/

This is very sound advice for anyone who is looking to use DNA evidence to identify unknown ancestors within the past few generations.

Best wishes on your search...

Answer 4

I recommend you add your Y-DNA test information (including your YSearch ID and Family Tree DNA kit number) to your DNA Tests page at  https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:DNATests&u=16165439

Answer 5

I don't have a Y-DNA test to check this theory out on, but I would still recommend that you take a look at your own privacy settings. I think I remember reading on a facebook group that if your matches will not show unless you have selected public in your security settings.

Answer 6

It's not uncommon, Michael. I did the Big Y test after finding I belonged to an interesting haplogroup. Turns out I'm all on my lonesome, time to MRCA is estimated at 2-3000 years. I might never get a worthwhile match. But you never know, "you pays your money and you takes your chances". On the positive, my full sequence mtDNA test did produce results and selected between two possible sets of parents for my 2nd great grandmother.

Answer 7

I felt the same way when I tested initially with FTDNA, no matches, about a year later however I did get a match, same surname and very distant relationship,  a cousin many times removed and the family tree branched then with two Brothers in about 1730. So don't lose hope, more people test every day!

 

Good luck!

Shane

Answer 8

Be patient, I have many people in my project who have no match but just last month, I was able to match two people to new project members.

Beware of 12 marker matches if you are Haplogroup R1b. In my project (Ellis) I cannot make a match on anything less that 37 markers for Haplogroup R1b. Yes, you are likely descended from a common ancestor, but the time frame is so long ago as not to be of any use genealogically speaking.

Answer 9

Too, I think one of the reasons to get your Y DNA tested is to know what haplogroup you are and to learn more about your ancient family tree.

As mentioned by others both Y DNA and MT DNA tests are not to prove close relationships but older ones.

Answer 10

Hello Michael,

I strongly recommend you go to your DNA Tests page at

https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:DNATests&u=16165439

and select that you tested your Y chromosome and enter your YSearch ID.

There are instances where Y-DNA testers have not signed their green release form allowing their Y-DNA to be compared with the Family Tree DNA customer database.  There are other instances where Y-DNA testers have their setting to only show matches with the DNA project for their surname.  So if they have no matches there then they do not discover any other close matches with other surnames in the customer database.  Some Y-DNA testers are not in a project for their surname and their Surname DNA Project is not public and so they don't get to see their matches.  It is also possible that your direct paternal line cousins Y-DNA tested with a lab other than Family Tree DNA.

Having your YSearch ID on your DNA Tests page in WikiTree will allow for improved crowdsouced answers to your question.  Others will be able to better determine why you don't have any matches (rare haplotype - or something else).

Added 10/08/2017: I wrote the above with the assumption that you have Y-DNA results but no matches.  I now see that you may not have tested your Y-DNA and you are wondering about the possibility of not matching.

Most sincerely, Peter

Answer 11

The scenario that would benefit yDNA tests that don't result in any matches, is when you have known Paternal relatives on the male line. In these cases, it tells you about a Non Paternal Event. In this case, it really doesn't add much value.

Your closest gedmatch matches are on AncestryDNA, so you might consider testing with them.

I would suggest others who don't know a biological Parent and first starting begin with www.23andme.com.  Many adoptees take advantage of the health reports, but they also predict your haplogroups.

I will point out, that currently, my father has 8 matches who share his Paternal Haplogroup but outside of my immediate family, the surnames for each of these matches are unique and not our surname.

Answer 12

It sounds like you are talking about Y-STR marker testing only. It is possible to have no matches. They may be out there somewhere but simply have not tested. I would be looking at also doing atDNA if you have not already done so. It will give you matches. It just won’t guarantee that they are from your male line. In fact it won’t identify which line at all. You will have to do that. But you will at least have some matches.

Getting back to your Y-DNA, those who have no matches often have an interesting Haplogroup. So I would be doing some SNP testing to refine what Haplogroup. FTDNA estimate a Haplogroup for customers, but it is very conservative to day the least. They don’t like to assign anything more recent than the last Ice Age. Dammit, that’s when it starts to get interesting.

My mtDNA is in a similar situation to your Y-DNA (only one in 4,900 customers at 23andme have my mtDNA.) So I am working my way down the haplotree, and at each step the geographical area of interest is further defined, hopefully down to a gene pool that makes sense and fits with what I know about my maternal line. While waiting for matches to appear, you have time in your hands, and you may well enjoy the journey of tracing your ancestral path down the Y-Tree.