We have a character with basically non-existing sources who is project protected

Question

The profile for one Andreas Hoffman(-364) is project protected and has German Roots and Czech Roots templates on it. This person was supposedly born in 1548 in Tallinn, Estonia (at his father's summer home no less), married an unknown woman in 1568 in Oberndorf, Bavaria, and died in 1625 in Königgrätz, Bohemia. The sources for all of this are an Ancestry tree (can't verify that it is unsourced since I am not a subscriber, but would be greatly surprised if there are any), a FAG memorial without photo or sources, and the Hoffmans of North Carolina (1938) by Max Ellis Hoffman, and The Hoffmans of North Carolina revisited, 1749-1998 : a genealogical presentation of three Hoffman brothers who settled in North Carolina, by Frances Wellman Hoffman, both books putting together a collection of Hoffmanns from Styria to Estonia without citing any sources, and American Ancestry, by Sigismund Von Herberstein, a book that does not exist.

This person appears to be fictional as no primary or even credible secondary sources exist for him. It should be of concern to a lot of people as it is claimed that he is the 7th great grandfather of President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Of note may be also that he supposedly had a son Wilhelm Hermanzen Hoffman born again back in Estonia (the Hermanzen sounds a lot like a patronymic to me) who in turn supposedly fathered three sons, Martinus 1618 in Estonia, Johann Jacob 1620 in Weidenthal, Germany, and Ludwig 1622 in Prague, Bohemia.

I think that this profile should not be project protected and the Roots templates should be replaced with {{Questionable}}.

 

Addendum: Tagged with "Leaders" to see if we can get PPP removed.

Comments

For some of us, one part may need clarification:  What several factors will deem a profile "unsourced" and not to be a "Project Protected" entity?? (Yes, I think that having your answer, Helmut, to this question will benefit large numbers of people here.  Thanks, for your work!!

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Not only that, there is an antique print for sale right now that is being sold as 

"1722 Woodblock Print Genealogy Ancestry Sigismund Von Herberstein EUM4"

I don't know how long this link will work, but you might want to have a look: https://www.periodpaper.com/products/1722-woodblock-print-genealogy-ancestry-sigismund-von-herberstein-aichelberg-150510-eum4-029

 

However, Sigismund is nowhere to be found. It's actually a man named Georg Ruprechten von Herbenstein, (identified as a Baron, if I understand his title Frenherrn to be the modern Frieherrn) who is the subject of the tree (one of his descendents is a Sigmund, however).

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There is a Sigismund von Herberstein, even with a connection to Hans Hofmann von Grünbüchel und Strechau, one of the claimed ancestors for the American Hoffman families. He was born in 1486 and died in 1566, a bit early in my opinion to have written a book "American Ancestry". The Herberstein family is well documented.There even is a book called "American Ancestry" (American Ancestry: Giving Name and Descent, in the Male Line, of Americans Whose Ancestors Settled in the United States Previous to the Declaration of Independence, A, Volume 10, Thomas Patrick Hughes, Frank Munsell, Munsell, 1895 - Albany (N.Y.) ) And this book reports the true fact that Sigismund von Herberstein and Johannes Hoffmann von Günbüchel und Strechau together were part of the Styrian delegation to Spain to the new Emperor in 1519 - and then a string of unsourced somewhat illustrious Hoffmanns across Europe as ancestors of the American Hoffmans. My theory is that in the uncritical copying of this "genealogy" somehow the names of Sigismund and the book got conflated and through the wonders of the internet multiplied across numerous genealogy websites until they finally landed on WikiTree.

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Bravo, Helmut, and thanks!!

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I don't know if the above profile is part of a "genealogy scam" but it is possible, especially if the profile is being used to help sell a product. Here is an interesting blog article on how long these scams have been going on... and how bad data gets repeated over and over.

https://blog.genealogybank.com/ancestry-believe-it-or-not-genealogy-scams-fakes-forgers.html

I suspect new genealogy scams are being thought up all the time.

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I agree with Helmut. 

 My theory is that in the uncritical copying of this "genealogy" somehow the names of Sigismund and the book got conflated and through the wonders of the internet multiplied across numerous genealogy websites until they finally landed on WikiTree.

 

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Yes, I agree that could be what happened in this case. But the discussion also brought up a question in my mind about what genealogy scams might be out there. So I did a quick search on it. It may be a subject for a different discussion... But it reminds us to be careful about sources and finding and recording as many sources as possible, and cleaning up problematic profiles, etc.

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I am sorry but I myself do not like the fact you call him a character. He is/was a person.

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Gwen, that is the question, isn't it? There are no sources for this profile in the books used to justify the existence of this profile.

Answer 1

Project protection should not be mistaken for a certificate of quality. Often it's applied when there are serious problems with a profile.

Project protection on this profile may have been intended to ensure that the profile won't be merged without discussion.

Comments

My question was intended to start a discussion about this particular group of profiles, Andreas Hoffman, his parents, his son, and his grandsons, all based on publications without sources (particularly irksome is the constant quoting from "American Ancestry by Sigismund von Herberstein", even though no such book exists). As the results show there is not much interest from anybody incl. German Roots and Czech Roots, and whoever placed the profile in project protection to discuss anything about these profiles.

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Helmut, Does WTree have any ways to discover who planted this genealogy on Wikitree?  If someone wants to sell it, we should ask why, --when we get so deeply into our work and someone wants to post something that's essentially USELESS?

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Roberta, I have a theory how this came about (see my comment to David Foy above). It's just one other of the late 19th century/early 20th century genealogy books playing fast and loose with reality cobbling together unsubstantiated genealogies and trusting genealogists finding these "sources" on the internet and copying them in good faith (and without checking).

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Yes, Helmut, accepting unverified information must always be suspect.  It's so easy to think that all of us have the good Researcher-gene.  I'm still having to improve my sources. Grrrr, of course.

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a quick review of the changes history shows that Maggie N protected the profile-- from the comment it looks like it was done to protect merge direction when merging duplicates with various spellings of the LNAB.

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But can we make a stand about unsourced profiles?

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But don't you think that at least Wikitree should stand up against any kind of scam (a deliberate misleading) in genealogy? It has a tradition and is a skill when done accurately and can thus lead to clarity regarding one's families' ancestral HISTORY, a by-definition facts-only enterprise.