Could someone please answer a rookie question please? What does 2nd Cousin twice removed mean? Thank you.

Question

Could someone please answer a rookie question please? What does 2nd Cousin twice etc... removed mean?  Thank you.

Also, the Connection Finder has me connected to way too many kings and queens. What does it mean when it says I have 203 common ancestors  with someone please?

Thank you for your time.

Jim Walker.   Walker - 2526

Comments

Looking at all the disagreement in the answers you all understand why I have a hard time understanding what makes cousins etc!

Wonderful that unlike many other  postings this wonderful group stays respectful and on task.

Wonderful !!!!!!!

Answer 1

For an example, look at the Queen and Philip

https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:Relationship&action=calculate&person1_name=Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg-1&person2_name=Windsor-1

As is well known, they both descend from Queen Victoria.  And they both descend from Prince Albert.  Common ancestors don't always come in pairs - half-cousins are very common.

But the Queen also descends from Christian IX of Denmark, and his wife.  And so does Philip.

Those lines don't go through Victoria and Albert.  So the Queen and Philip are double cousins.

Further back it gets messier.  Philip has a descent from Henry VII by the obvious route through Victoria - and also by a route through Christian IX, as it happens. 

The Queen shares those lines, obviously.  But she also has a completely independent descent from Henry VII through the Queen Mother, who was descended from Henry's other daughter, Mary Brandon.

And so Henry VII shows up in the list.  The Queen and Philip are descended from him through two of his children by separate lines that don't join up and redivide anywhere.  

Comments

Great, thank you.

I have quite a few Kings etc. that have dual line connections that you mention. I of course will not claim anything until I win the lottery and have a professional genealogist confirm the most fun lines.

Thank you!

Jim Walker  25 - 26

Answer 2

To answer the first part - the chart in the link is helpful

https://lifehacker.com/second-cousins-once-removed-and-more-explained-in-1661572056

and the second part - if you and another person are directly descended from the same individual (let's make up a name for this individual ... 'Henry Walker') then you and the other person will share all of Henry Walker's ancestors, or put another way, Henry Walker's ancestors are your and the other persons common ancestors.

Steve

 

Comments

Thank you. Chart is easy to read and very understandable.

 

Thank you for your time!

 

Jim Walker

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I use this same chart all the time.

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I would say the chart is essential!

I'm going to put the link on my private "Genealogy-for-Dummies" list for future reference.

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Very helpful chart

Answer 3

Hi Jim,

Here's an easy to read article explaining relationships:

http://www.genealogy.com/articles/research/16_cousn.html

As for connections (and ancestry in general), I love this article:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/commentisfree/2015/may/24/business-genetic-ancestry-charlemagne-adam-rutherford

While the onus of the article is on genetic testing (and the pros and cons of that aren't what I want to focus on), here's the sentence you want:

"In 2013, geneticists Peter Ralph and Graham Coop showed that all Europeans are descended from exactly the same people. Basically, everyone alive in the ninth century who left descendants is the ancestor of every living European today, including Charlemagne, Drogo, Pippin and Hugh."

Hope this helps.

Edit... or, what Steve said while I was tapping away! :)

 

Comments

Thank you!

I found both articles very insightful and informative!

Thank you!

Jim alker

Walker 25 - 26

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Hello:

Then we are ALL related to multiple dozens of Kings and Queens etc!

How exciting for everyone!

Thank you!!!!

Jim Walker

Walker 25-26

Answer 4

Twice removed means they are two generations apart.

2nd. cousin means that their common ancestor is the the great, great grandfather.

Comments

Thank you.

best simple answer to this question and I really appreciate your time.

Regards,

Jim Walker

Walker 25 - 26

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Only one 'great' for second cousins.  Say your grandmother had a second cousin.  Granny and her second cousins had the same great grandparent.  Grandma's second cousin is your second cousin twice removed (two generations between you and grandma).  It's all in the 'Gs.'   Count the Gs:  The common ancestor is your 3x great grandparent, and the great grandparent of your 2C2R.  Four Gs to the common ancestor for you, two Gs for the other person.  Two Gs, second cousins.  Two more Gs, twice removed.  Not confusing at all! 

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That is not quite right Herbert; you have to move beyond the great grandfather to the great great grandfather to chang it from 1st. cousin to second cousin

George

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Sorry, anon, that is not correct.  Ignoring removes for now, when the common ancestor is a grandparent, that's a first cousin.  One G.  Your first cousin's children are your children's second cousins.  Those children's common ancestor is your grandparent, their great grandparent.  Two Gs, second cousins.  Confirm with the chart.  As you describe it, there is no name for the relationship when the common ancestor is a great grandparent.

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Not quite right Herbert. The longest of the two lines has to be the great great grandfather for the second cousin relationship to kick in. In the example you quoted they would be 1st. cousins not second cousins.You father would be a second cousin and you a third cousin.

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Sorry, that's just plain incorrect.  First cousins share a common grandparent.  First cousins are the children of their parents' siblings.  My uncle's daughter is my first cousin.  She and I have the same grandparents, who were the parents of my mother and her brother.  If my first cousin and I both have children, those children have common ancestors in my maternal grandparents, and said children are second cousins to each other.  The common ancestors of my children and my first cousin's children are my grandparents (also my first cousin's grandparents), who are the great grandparents of those children.  As I said, confirm with the chart.  You can disagree, but I can't explain any further without repeating myself.

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Herbert is correct in his description.

• People who share common grandparents are first cousins
• People who share common great grandparents are second cousins
• People who share common great great grandparents are third cousins.
• Each additional generation back adds another level of cousin

The removes come into play when one side has a different number of generations to the common ancestor. Take the cousin level from the shorter side. Then it is the level of cousin to use and the difference between the number of generations is the removed part. So, if one side has the shared ancestor as grandfather and the longer side has great great grandfather, then the relationship is first cousin twice removed.

The chart that was previously given at https://lifehacker.com/second-cousins-once-removed-and-more-explained-in-1661572056 is exactly correct. This is the standard definition that has been used in all research I've ever seen. I've not seen a different definition.

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Anonymous, the degree of cousin-ness comes from the shorter of the two lines.  I met my grandmother's first cousin Dan when he was about 97.  My great grandfather was his uncle.  He is my mother's first cousin once removed, and my first cousin twice removed.  The 'first' designation comes from the shorter line, that is Dan's line to his (and my grandmother's) grandparents, my great great grandparents.  I met Dan's daughter, who is about my age, at the same time.  She is my mother's second cousin, and my second cousin once removed.

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I love that chart, Doug.

Answer 5

Cousins of the same number of generations from a common ancestor are equal cousins, such as 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.

When an equal cousin has a child that child is once removed from the equal cousin relationship.  Such as: A child of a 3 cousin would mean that child is once removed from the 3rd cousin relationship. That child's children would be twice removed from the equal 3rd cousin relationship.

There are cases, because of family inter-marriages where a person can be placed at different level of the cousinships.

Answer 6

Cousins are people, with whom you share one or more common ancestor, with exception of sisters and brothers who have common parents but the children of siblings are first cousins to each other. The children of first cousins are second cousins and so forth. The "removed" part comes in when you are referring to the relationship between cousins of different generations. For instance the children of your first cousin are first cousins, once removed. Grandchildren of your first cousins are two times removed. Grandchildren of your second cousins are second cousin ,two times removed.