Should We Use URL Shorteners?

+31 votes
2.9k views

Many times I come across shortened URLs in profile bios, using TinyURL Bit.ly or some other service.  I don't personally use them, but I understand the desire to shorten and "beautify" unwieldly links. However, I see reasons why we should not use them on WikiTree:

  • The links only work as long as the provider of the link shortener is in business or wants to provide the service. Google provides a URL shortener, (goo.gl), but we all know that Google has changed its mind before and discontiuned some services. Even though the shortener provider says the link will never expire, that statement is couched in language which says something like "as long as we feel like it."
  • Some websites or countries prevent short, redirected URLs from being posted. The Widipedia article on shorted URLs states that: "In April 2009, TinyURL was reported to be blocked in Saudia Arabia."
  • A shortened URL doesn't show the user where you are actually going, so a vandal could use one to direct a user to an unexpected or unwanted site, such as pages containing malware.
  • The URL shortener may be subject to political pressures. The top level domain name for bit.ly is from Libya, and there are others from Mongolia, Samoa and Malaysia.

I haven't seen any policy on the use of URL shorteners at WikiTree. Wikipedia's policy is that you can use a shortened URL if the website provider has provided the shortened link, otherwise, not, and Wikipedia specifically mentions bit.ly. 

I believe we shouldn't use them.  We want anyone to be able to follow our links "forever." That ability could be hampered by the use of a shortened URL, even if the site it directs to is still available.  See the Wikipedia article on URL shortening at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/URL_shortening

Please recatorize or add tags to this message, if necessary, to target the best audience.

 

in WikiTree Tech by Vic Watt G2G6 Pilot (355k points)
edited by Vic Watt
deleted
Use of the WayBackMachine might be another or further downside of  "doesn't show the user where you are going,"
The Wikipedia link to the article on URL shortening, is not formatted to work correctly.  Could someone edit to fix?
You should be able to just cut and paste it now.
I'm on my mobile and that's tough sometimes. I'll give it a spin later. Thanks! :)

9 Answers

+13 votes
 
Best answer

Vic I'm on the same page as you!! I don't think we should use them.

Those shortened links can have huge potential for security problems. Google has too much information on individuals as it is. I'm not confortable with the fact the shortened link as tracked. If the user is signed into google it's automatically added to goo.gl  where one can get info about the browser used, platform, how many times it's been clicked on and on an on......  I'll get off my soapbox now as I don't like google.

Once created, your link won’t expire unless it has to be removed for spam, privacy, or legal reasons.

by Michelle Hartley G2G6 Pilot (166k points)
selected by Lynden Rodriguez

I love opening cans of worms!devil

I think just as important is that all source guidelines I am assume real urls are used. When short urls are included in a source, the optics are bad. The intent of source listing is to clearly identify the actual source being used.  Also, in the source listing it should be obvious what website the source material is coming from (when web based) by visual inspection, You should not have to click on a surrogate link to determine the actual source location.
+8 votes
Wow, I would have never though about political pressure.
by Living Johnson G2G6 Mach 1 (17.2k points)

Paula, completely off-topic - yet, falling under "political pressure" and Libya - much of the standardized testing (ACT, SAT, etc...) used in schools around the world — created by Pearson Publishing (based in the UK)  — which is partly owned by the Libyan Investment Authority --- it's a small world and getting smaller.  

+18 votes

I don't see why we need to use shortened URLs at all. When formatted properly, even a very long URL is embedded into a hyperlink. URLs should always be embedded into a hyperlink and not be visible on the page. I.e., you should never have this on a profile page:

http://www.wikitree.com/g2g/80488/should-we-use-url-shorteners

Instead, it should be this:

Should we use URL shorteners?

On a profile page, a hyperlink should be coded as follows:

[http://www.wikitree.com/g2g/80488/should-we-use-url-shorteners Should we use URL Shorteners]?

So if you see a "bare" URL on a profile page, you'd be doing all of us a favor by editing it appropriately. Thanks!

by Jillaine Smith G2G6 Pilot (896k points)
Isn't there a character missing from the example hyperlink?
Some sites like Ancestry has URL that are 100+ long which makes it less easy to see what you write because 80% of the text is URL. That is one reason ;-)

 

BUT as I have stated it looks like Googles URL shortener delete links it doesnt like see http://www.wikitree.com/g2g/80488/should-we-use-url-shorteners?show=184586#a184586 ==> its of no use....
+5 votes
When I am using a URL to add a link to a photo I have uploaded (usually from Visitations, etc...)— I have to use a shortener — if not the URL bleeds out of the box and is unusable (won't click).  (Would love for this to be fixed so I can format the original link to work in photo comments and on BB posts. )
 
Also, if posting on a bulletin board- same thing (like those i shared for Patrick Stewart earlier today) - runs over and won't work when clicked.  The only time I place the shortened links  in the free-space is if I have already created the citation for a photo comment or BB comment - then I copy/paste to the free-space. (lazy, I know)
 
by Michelle Brooks G2G6 Mach 2 (24.8k points)

Lianne, if you create it as a hyperlink the link will stay in the box - it then gives an error  when trying to access the link from the bulletin board. 

I really believe I have tried every trick I know of since joining Wikitree to avoid using link shorteners in bulletin board comments - there always seems to be a catch. 

When I click on that link that I posted in the Sandbox, I don't get an error; it goes right to the page I intended to link to. And then I tried formatting with wiki markup by putting [url FamilySearch results for Sarah Jane Elson] and the link appeared and worked fine.
I tried it with the long URL posted way above. Michelle B is right.  Doesn't matter if you use HTML or wiki coding. Won't convert to hyperlink.  There are no equal signs in the URL, Lianne.  Must be some other character?

i left oft on my profile page so you can see

Michelle I noticed that your link is for a search result page instead of the actual book itself. At least that's what it shows me when I click on your link. Notice the =false on the end of the url?

Another possibility- are you signed into google? If your acct is marked private in google books it might now let anyone else see it.

The links are different depending if you are signed into google or not.

(not signed inhttp://books.google.com/books?id=_984AQAAMAAJ&num=15&hl=en

(signed in) http://books.google.com/books?id=_984AQAAMAAJ&num=15

 

Several months ago changes Chris made changes to the system  which affected using  <a href=. Remember when all the links on bulletin board were really long and didn't look right?

 

The longer link to Prominant Families - was posted that way on my BB and I used it as an example.  Yes, the changes made removes the html coding and replaces it with single brackets, which doesn't change the bleed out of the box. If the equal sign(s) is replaced with &61 it still bleeds out of the box, if html coding is used with &61 then the link gives an error.

I stay signed in to google - most of the links I use for profiles are the result of a search. I then use the chain link for the page I am referencing to get that particular page link, not every Wikitreer thinks/knows to do that for comments to the bulletin board or the memories section.

I don't like using a link editor, it's an extra (and unnecessary) step that is unneeded for the free-space area - but it's the only viable option for longer links posted in the comments/memories at the time (heh, which is why I added my 2 cents to begin with).   

 

Jillaine: It looks like there were equal signs in that URL, though. That's why there are ''' now. If you post a link with = in a comment, the = will be replaced with ''' when you open it again to edit it.

If someone has a link (not messed up yet; directly copied from the website you're linking to) that doesn't work with my = replacing method, if you post it here I could try to figure out what other symbol is breaking it.
Oh sorry, I see Michelle already shared her unedited link above. I tried it with this one: http://books.google.ca/books?id=tyQSAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA133&lpg=PA133&dq=Elizabeth+Peyton+Randolph+Beverly,+Virginia&source=bl&ots=NP6bY2vypU&sig=9HE15xIbrd-_avUCgDZl8aMXotk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=aqFOU8ecK8Tj0QGG_4CYCQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Elizabeth%20Peyton%20Randolph%20Beverly%2C%20Virginia&f=false

I replaced each = with &#61; in a bulletin board comment. The link works. You can see it in the Sandbox.

WONDERFUL - unfortunately that's not a "fix" that is easily shareable with less technically savvy Wikitree users.  

Concur. It would be great if the system could recognize and alter the = sign to the right ASCII code.

All said, it's been an interesting discussion for those of us interested in these things but probably eye-glazing for the rest! :-)
Most don't realize this unless they are a greeter or mentor who post links on the bulletin board a lot.
+5 votes

CAVEAT: I discovered that WE HAVE TO shorten weird Google Book URLS in Photo comments. If not... we hit a WikiTree bug that won't form a clean inlink.

 

Another thing... short URLS account for analytics WikiTree does not currently provide users.

by Living Ogle G2G6 Mach 3 (31.0k points)
Is there a way to link a tinyurl frame to the edit window of profiles so we dont have to go outside wikitree to shorten it?

 

NVM...found the answer :)
+4 votes

WARNING Google URL shortener deletes links to sources in Ancestry

I found this source URL http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gss=angs-c&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=Per&gsfn_x=NN&gsln=Ohlsson&gsln_x=NN&msbdp=5&msadd=25&msadm=9&msady=1923&msypn__ftp=Koldemo%2c+H%C3%A4lsingland%2c+Sweden&cp=0&MSAV=0&uidh=iy6&pcat=IMG_PASSLISTS&h=4028154364&recoff=8+10&db=nypl&indiv=1&ml_rpos=1

and created this shortner

https://goo.gl/EhArjf

And now gets

https://goo.gl/EhArjf – this goo.gl shortlink has been disabled. It was found to be violating our Terms of Service. Click here and here for more information about our terms and policies respectively.

by Living Sälgö G2G6 Pilot (295k points)
edited by Living Sälgö

I recommend that you try to avoid posting Ancestry search-results links. Instead of posting the search result, post a link to the document that the search result points to. In that example, I would post a link to http://interactive.ancestry.com/7488/NYT715_3378-0430?pid=4028154364 -- that's the page for the image, minus the &backurl= and everything that comes after it.

Most of the information in the search-results URL and the &backurl= segment of the other URL is there to help Ancestry track what you were searching for and what page you were searching from. WikiTree users who want to see a record don't need the details of what it was you were searching for when you found the record.

What I have done is e.g.
http://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Ros%C3%A9n-430&public=1#_note-3

a) post an URL reference to where I found ithe data i.e. Ancestry
b) a transcription of what I found
c) a comment that it looks like he is travelling with another person
d) in this case its an emigration to the USA I also have a source in Arkiv Digitals scanned documents of the police register in Gothenburg
e) I also added a short Url too google map for Wilkinsburg, PA, USA
f) Added a to do section with comments and a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBd5dCOkMfE

'''1911''' jul 12 leaving Göteborg destination Grimsby England on the ship Eldorado<ref>[http://search.ancestry.se/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=GothenburgEmigration&h=3129441&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=2717 Ancestry second source]
::Namn:    Frans S Rosén
::Avresedatum:    12 jul 1911
::Avreseort:    Göteborg, Göteborg och Bohus, Sverige
::Fartygsnamn:    Eldorado
::Födelsedatum:    29 jul 1893
::Födelseort:    Söderhamn
::Ålder:    17
::Destination:    Grimsby</ref>.
:Destination is [https://goo.gl/pBwsVt Vilkingsburg] and on the row above is a person who already lives in North America. Could be that this person is visiting Sweden and Frans follow him back<ref>Göteborgs poliskammare (-1900) EIX:95 (1911-1911) Image 230 / page 33 (AID: v479819.b230.s33, NAD: SE/GLA/12703)
:Ångfartyget Eldorado 12 Juli 1911 till Grimsby(England)
:A2106 Rosen Frans ? Söderhamn 29/7 93, 1,,,[https://goo.gl/pBwsVt Vilkinnsburg, Wie?]</ref>
Magnus: The Google StreetView image that I see when I click on the 820 Wood Street link shows a newer building (apparently 827 Wood Street) than the one that I think you intended to display. (But I think I found number 820 when I rotated the view.)
I also saw that maybe the original building still is there, but I have no feeling if that can be the case..... I have a dream that Wikitree will in a better way support geolocation for events so that you can have an app when you are out travelling to find the nearest place in your were you are located... ;-))

http://www.wikitree.com/g2g/126978/difficult-skilled-programmer-geographic-information-wikitree?show=135732#c135732
+5 votes

I use this free web service to fix web-addresses that do not work on the WikiTree: MeyerWeb.com

Another site that offers the same service is Freeformatter.com. I have not used their site and not sure if it is free, however it does a very good job explaining why some web-addresses need to be altered. Sometimes radically.

The MeyerWeb.com service fixed all 179 multi-line web-addresses on this category page. The revised coding is view-able within the category's edit page.

by George Blanchard G2G6 Mach 9 (96.1k points)
+4 votes

This discussion has become a bit too technical for me and it may be somewhat off topic, but shouldn't Wikitree encourage the use of archiving services such as Webcite to help prevent the loss of cited material over time?

by Henry Chadwick G2G6 Mach 5 (55.2k points)
+4 votes
Short links are meant for Twitter and other social media. Or in messages but NEVER for sources. They last shortly. Links posted between [ and ] are short on WikiTree profiles so not of ANY use.
by Astrid Spaargaren G2G6 Pilot (280k points)

I dont agree

Short links are better than long links as long links get messy to work with 

BUT 

if google short url deletes the one you create pointing at sources at Ancestry then the short URL is of no use.....

We will have the same problem if we add links to a source that change its database engine ==> you get other URLs

My advice is find a way of doing citation: 

1) add a small transcription of the source
2) add a link with a date accessed
2a) if you trust the shortener then use it as it makes the editing much easier
2b) otherwise use the long URL

Best is to have a source citation that is independent of platform i.e.
in sweden we have Arkiv Digital and they have scanned 55 000 000 documents today. If you quote them they have both a dependent unique ID for the page (AID = Arkiv Digital ID) and a ID that is independent of them and can be used to find the original paper source..

E.g. a ID to my mothers birth record

Västerås Domkyrkoförsamling C:21b (1926-1932) Image 180 / page 261 (AID: v261097.b180.s261, NAD: SE/ULA/11727)

Name of the parish or type of book Västerås Domkyrkoförsamling
Unique number of that book C:21b
Year 1926-1932
Arkiv Digital Image number in that book Image 180
Page number in the physica book page 261
Arkiv Digital unique ID of this scanned page AID: v261097.b180.s261

where v261097 is the scanned version of the whole volyme
b180 = image nr 180
s261 = physical page 261

A reference to the Swedish National archive where you can find out more about available books from e.g. Västerås Domkyrkoförsamling NAD: SE/ULA/11727 URL 

-----------


Good source on Citation is the book 
Evidence explained

Discussion on using URLs at Evidence explained

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