Doda (Unknown) of Metz (abt. 585 - abt. 640)

PM's, Does this profile still need PPP? Her husband is not managed by Germany or PPP'd.

Please add [email address removed] as comanager of this profile. Thank You Jacky

That's fine, go ahead and make the change. I know how to find her if I need her. From what I read here, she seems to be in doubt all-around, so the unknown category is the closest fit.

d'Herstal or d'Heristal, was a nickname applied to Pepin II only from the 13th century onwards (about 500-600 years after he died) and named after a castle near Liege. There is no actual proof that he or any of his maternal ancestors ever owned the castle. It was only ever applied to him, never a dynasty name, but in online genealogies it has become the name used for him, his ancestors and his descendants. Doda in any case is from his paternal line, so Herstal or Heristal is completely wrong for her. Primary sources for her don't name her parents or family, and even her first name is in doubt. One of the Wikitree honour codes is about accuracy and I think regardless of what other profiles there might be with variations of the name Herstal, that Doda's LNAB should be Unknown.

Still waiting on John's input ... but I agree with him ... and also think she should be separated from the Pippinids, since Pepin of Herstal breaks with the Arnulfings, and marks the beginning of the Pippinid dynastic house.

Another alternative to Metz (also see changes for various duplicate LNABs) is 'Treir' (Treves) ... based on an 11th century 'mediocre' source that said she retired there as a nun.[1]

I don't want to sound difficult, but I need someone to explain to me why I would follow through on the currently-requested merge for Dode. I did a quick search and found 4 Heristals and 8 de Heristals on Wikitree. I feel this is an identifiable name, versus putting her into the unknown category with nearly 300,000 other unknowns. How does this make her easier for others to find, even if it may happen to be "correct"? I'd readily approve an unknown to Heristal merge, if that's a workable option.

De Heristal-15 and Unknown-295691 appear to represent the same person because: These need to be merged. Then parents disconnected or left with current message that they are speculative?

I understand the issues with using Unknown as a LNAB and the difficulties this can cause. Heristal or Herstal is a name applied to her grandson, as a nickname, and probably isn't appropriate for her. Metz is a possibility, as one theory about her origins is that it is she, not her husband, who is a child of Arnoaldus Bishop of Metz. Also there appear to be 2 Vita Arnulfi, and the original (7th century) didn't name her, the second (10th century) did.

I think the bigger problem is that she's not mentioned at all in any contemporary source... Then suddenly, after the turn of the millennium, the already problematic source,Vita Arnulfi,[1] decides to designate a wife named, "Doda" (or Dode).[2] So it's a precarious position... since she will never be named with certainty.

What's wrong with Heristal or Metz? Just asking....

I understand her origin and lineage are in question, but UNKNOWN is such a large and cavernous category to drop someone into when you can already identify them with a workable LNAB until more research can be done to narrow it down definitively.

Wouldn't everyone agree that the LNAB for Dodo should be Unknown ?