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Preceded by Gwenwynwyn ab Owain |
Prince of Powys Wenwynwyn 1216–1240 |
Succeeded by Gruffydd ap Gwenwynwyn |
Preceded by Dafydd ab Owain Gwynedd |
Prince of Gwynedd 1195–1240 |
Succeeded by Dafydd ap Llywelyn |
Contents |
Llywelyn ap Iorwerth Drwyndwn ab Owain Gwynedd ap Gruffudd ap Cynan[1]
Llywelyn Fawr, sometimes shown as Llywelyn Mawr, which also means Great, but Fawr is more frequently used for Llywelyn ap Iorwerth (see this G2G discussion) Prince of Gwynedd (1195–1240[2]) in north Wales and eventually de facto ruler over most of Wales,[3] was also called
Genealogist Stewart Baldwin has prepared a detailed and documented Ancestor Table for Llywelyn the Great. [11]
Mistresses
Llywelyn is said to have had seven mistresses, but the name of only one is known:[13]
The names of the other six mistresses of Prince Llywelyn are not known. [18] Prince Llywelyn had five illegitimate children by them.
Llywelyn's first marriage
Some time in the 1190's Tangwystl became the mistress of Llywelyn ap Iorwerth who was born 1173 [19]. At the time she became his mistress, it is likely that he was married to his first wife, the daughter of Hugh, Earl of Chester, which wife died prior to 11 Nov 1199 without issue. [19]
LLYWELYN ap Iorwerth, was the son of IORWERTH "Drwyndwyn/flat nose" Prince of Gwynedd & his wife Marared of Powys (1173-11 Apr 1240[265], bur Aberconway). [18]
Llywelyn's possible second marriage
In 1199 Llywelyn proposed to marry the widow of his uncle, Rhodri ap Owain, who died in 1195, and who was the daughter of Reynold (or Rognvaldr), King of Man. Pope Innocent III granted permission for him to marrh her 19 April 1203, which permission was rescinded 17 Feb 1204/5. It is unknown if the marriage ever took place. [19]
Photograph by Rhion Pritchard, Wikimedia |
"Llywelyn spent most of his life restoring and enhancing the hegemony of his grandfather Owain Gwynedd. A striking youth and a successful warrior at an early age, he acquired (from 1194) lands at the expense of his kinsmen, enabling him to master Gwynedd by 1203. Good relations with King John brought recognition and his marriage to John's natural daughter Joan."[2]
Caption: Statue of Llywelyn the Great at Conwy stands atop a drinking fountain. The work of art was designed by Grayson and Ould during 1895–98, sculpted by E.O. Griffiths, and unveiled in 1898.[20]
See this page for another picture of his statue in Conwy's town square and this article about the carved stone head from Deganwy Castle which is thought to represent Llywelyn ap Iorwerth. See also Castles of Llywelyn Fawr.
1197: "After the death of the lord Rhys, his son Gruffudd succeeded him in the government of the dominion, which was held by Maelgwn his brother, when the said Maelgwn, after being banished before from his territory, came, accompanied by his men, and also by the family of Gwenwynwyn, to Aberystwyth, and subjugated the town and castle, killing many of the people, and carrying others into bondage, and taking possession of the whole of Ceredigion with its castles. And after seizing his brother Gruffudd, he sent him to the prison of Gwenwynwyn, who agreeably to his desire sent him to an English prison. And then Gwenwynwyn subjugated Arwystli, and captured Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth and David son of Owain Gwynedd. That year, Owain Cyveiliog died at Ystrad Harebell, the monastery which he himself had founded after putting on the habit of religion."[21]
1199: captured castle of Mold ... using title "prince of the whole of North Wales"; (Latin: tocius norwallie princeps). Llywelyn was probably not in fact master of all Gwynedd at this time since it was his cousin Gruffudd ap Cynan who promised homage to King John for Gwynedd in 1199.[3]
1201 "The ensuing year, Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth, subdued the cantrev of Lleyn, having expelled Maredudd, son of Cynan, on account of his treachery."[1]
1202 "about the first feast of St. Mary in the autumn, Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth, raised an army from Powys, to control Gwenwynwyn, and possess the country. Although Gwenwynwyn was close to him, ... he called ... the other princes ... related to him, to ... war ... against Gwenwynwyn. ... Elise, son of Madog, son of Maredudd ... refused ... and ... endeavoured to bring ... peace with Gwenwynwyn. And therefore, after the clergy and the religious had concluded a peace between Gwenwynwyn and Llywelyn], the territory of Elise, son of Madog, his uncle was taken from him. And ultimately there was given him for maintenance, in charity, the castle of Crogen with seven small townships. And thus, after conquering the castle of Bala, Llywelyn returned back happily. That year, about the feast of St. Michael, the family of young Rhys, son of Gruffudd, son of the lord Rhys, obtained possession of the castle of Llanymddyvri.[21]
1203 "The ensuing year, young Rhys, son of Gruffudd subdued the castle of Llanegwad. And then died David, son of Owain, in England, after having been banished out of Wales by Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth. That year Gwenwynwyn, and Maelgwn, son of Rhys, by devices got possession of the castle of Llanymddyvri, and the castle of Llangadog; and the castle of Dineirth was completed."[21]
1208 "Rhys and Owain, sons of Gruffudd, attacked the castle of Llangadog, which they burned, killing some of the garrison, and imprisoning others."[21]
Gwenwynwyn of Powys fell out with King John (John summoned him to Shrewsbury in October ... then arrested ... and stripped him of his lands. Llywelyn annexed southern Powys and northern Ceredigion and rebuild Aberystwyth castle.)[2]
Summer 1209: accompanied John on a campaign against William I of Scotland.
1209. "King John went with an immense army into Ireland; and he took from the sons of Hugh de Lacy their land and their a castles. After receiving homage of all in Ireland, and capturing the wife of William Bruse, and young William, his son, with his wife and his son and daughter, he returned with honour to England. He then put young William and his mother unmercifully to death in the castle of Windsor. That year, the earl of Caerleon built the castle of Dyganwy, which Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth, had previously demolished, for fear of the king. And then also, that earl built the castle of Holywell; and Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth, ravaged the territory of that earl."
1210 "One thousand two hundred and ten was the year of Christ, when Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth, made cruel attacks upon the English; and on that account king John became enraged, and formed a design of entirely divesting Llywelyn of his dominion. And he collected a vast army towards Gwynedd, with the view of utterly destroying it."[21]
1211 "The ensuing year, as Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth, prince of Gwynedd, could not brook the many insults done to him by the men of the king, who had been left in the new castle at Aberconway he confederated with the Welsh princes, namely, Gwenwynwyn, and Maelgwn, son of Rhys, and Madog, son of Gruffudd Maelor, and Maredudd, son of Robert; and rose against the king, subduing all the castles which he had made in Gwynedd, except Dyganwy and Rhuddlan; Mathraval, in Powys, made by Robert Vepont, they subdued, and whilst they were reducing that, the king, with a vast army, came to oppose them, and he himself burned it with fire. That year, Robert Vepont hanged, at Shrewsbury, Rhys, son of Maelgwn, who was a hostage to the king, not being yet seven years old. And in the same year, Robert, bishop of Bangor, died."[21]
1215 "Then Giles, bishop of Hereford, made peace with the king, from fear of the pope; ... and he died at Gloucester, about the feast of St. Martin; and his patrimony came to his brother Rheinallt de Bruse, who took for his wife the (Gladwys), daughter of Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth, prince of Gwynedd. ...That year, Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth, and the Welsh princes in general, collected a vast army to Caermarthen; and before the end of five days, he obtained the castle, and razed it to the ground. And then they demolished the castles of Llanstephan and Talacharn and St. Clare. And from thence, on the eve of the feast of St. Thomas the Apostle, they proceeded to Ceredigion, and fought against the castle of Emlyn. Then the men of Cemaes did homage to Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth, and the castle of Trevdraeth was delivered to him; which, by general consent, was shattered. And when the garrison of Aberystwyth saw that they could not maintain the castle, they delivered it up to Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth, on the feast of St. Stephen; and the following day, the feast of St. John the Apostle, the castle of Cilgerran was delivered to bim. And then Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth, and all the Welsh princew that were with him, returned to their countries, happy and joyful with victory. And here are the names of the princes who were on that expedition from Gwynedd:— Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth, prince of Gwynedd, and Howel, son of Gruffudd, son of Cynan, his uncle, and Llywelyn, son of Maredudd, son of Cynan; out of Powys, Gwenwynwyn, son of Owain Cyveiliog, and Maredudd, son of Robert of Cydewain, and the family of Madog, son of Gruffudd Madog, and the two sons of Maelgwn, son of Cadwallon; and out of South Wales, Maelgwn, son of Rhys, and Rhys the Hoarse, his brother, and young Rhys, and Owain, the sons of Gruffudd, son of Rhys. And these are the names of the castles which were subjugated in that expedition; that is to say, the castle of Senghenydd, the castle of Cydweli, Caermarthen, Llanstephan, St. Clare, Talacharn, Trevdraeth, Aberteivi, and Cilgerran."[21]
Llywelyn allied with Philip II Augustus of France, then with the barons rebelling against John, marching on Shrewsbury and capturing it without resistance in 1215.
When John was forced to sign the Magna Carta, Llywelyn was rewarded with several favorable provisions relating to Wales, including the release of his son Gruffydd, a hostage since 1211. The same year Ednyfed Fychan was appointed sensechal of Gwynedd and was to work closely with Llywelyn for the remainder of his reign. Llywelyn the Great
1216 A year after that and then there was a partition of land between Maelgwn, son of Rhys, and his brother, Rhys the Hoarse, and Rhys and Owain, the sons of Gruffudd, son of Rhys, at Aberdovey, in the presence of Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth, when all the Welsh princes, for the most part and all the wise men of Gwynedd were summoned thither together. And to Maelgwn, son of Rhys, were allotted three cantrevs of Dyved, that is to say, the cantrev of Gwarthav, the cantrev of Cemaes, and the cantrev of Emlyn, with Penllwynog and the castle of Cilgerran; and of the Vale of Tywi, the castle of Llanymddyvri, with two comots, namely, Hirvryn and Mallaen, and the manor of Myddvai; and of Ceredigion, the two comots of Gwynionydd and Mabwynion. And to young Rhys, and his brother Owain, the sons of Gruffudd, son of Rhys, were allotted the castle of Aberteivi, and the castle of Nant yr Ariant, with throe cantrevs of Ceredigion. And to Rhys the Hoarse were allotted, as his share the whole of Cantrev Mawr, except Mallaen, and the Cantrev Bychan, except Hirvryn and Myddvai; and to him likewise came Cydweli and Carnwyllon. In that year, Gwenwynwyn, lord of Powys, made peace with John, king of England, treating with contempt the oath and the engagement which he had plighted to the chieftains of England and Wales, and violating the homage which he had done to Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth, and surrendering the hostages that he had given thereon."[3]
1217: Reginald de Braose of Brecon and Abergavenny, who had been allied to Llywelyn and married his daughter Gwladus Ddu changed sides. Llywelyn responded by invading his lands, first threatening Brecon, where the burgesses offered hostages for the payment of 100 marks, then heading for Swansea where Reginald de Braose met him to offer submission and to surrender the town. He then continued westwards to threaten Haverfordwest where the burgesses offered hostages for their submission to his rule or the payment of a fine of 1,000 marks.
Treaty of Worcester and border campaigns 1218–1229 Following King John's death Llywelyn concluded the Treaty of Worcester with his successor Henry III in 1218. This treaty confirmed him in possession of all his recent conquests. From then until his death Llywelyn was the dominant force in Wales, though there were further outbreaks of hostilities with marcher lords, particularly the Marshall family and Hubert de Burgh, and sometimes with the king. Llywelyn built up marriage alliances with several of the Marcher families.[4]
1220 "That year, on the feast of S. Jean de Collaces next after that Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth, cited to him most of the princes of all Wales, and collected a vast army to go against the Flemings of Rhos and Pembroke (William Marshal, Earl of Pembroke), because of their breaking the peace and the treaty, which the men of England had made between the English and the Welsh, by their committing frequent depredations upon the Welsh, and harrassing them. On the first day he attacked the castle of Arberth, which the Flemings had built, after having been formerly destroyed by the Welsh; and he obtained the castle by force, and threw it to the ground, after killing some of the garrison, burning others, and capturing others. And the following day he destroyed the castle of Gwys, and burned the town. The third day he came to Haverford, and burned the whole of the town to the castle gate. And thus he went round Rhos and Deugleddyv in five days, making vast slaughter of the people of the country. And after making a truce with the Flemings until the calends of May, he returned back joyful and happy."[21]
Early 1223: Llywelyn captured Kinnerley and Whittington castles in Shropshire. In April, Marshalls recaptured Cardigan and Carmarthen. Their campaign was supported by a royal army that took Montgomery. Llywelyn came to an agreement with the king at Montgomery in October. His allies in south Wales were given back lands taken by the Marshalls, and Llywelyn gave up Shropshire conquests.
1228: Llywelyn campaigned against Hubert de Burgh, Justiciar of England and Ireland, and one of the most powerful men in the kingdom. Hubert was given the lordship and castle of Montgomery by the king and encroached on Llywelyn's nearby lands. The king raised an army to help Hubert, who began to build another castle in the commote of Ceri. But in October, the royal army retreated and Henry agreed to destroy the half-built castle for £2,000 from Llywelyn. Llywelyn raised the money by demanding the same sum as the ransom of William de Braose, Lord of Abergavenny, who he captured in the fighting.[22]
Llywelyn married 18 Jun 1205 England; (Aft 16 Apr 1205) Joan (c.1188 - 1236/37), dau of King John I of England. Her mother is disputed; see her profile for further discussion.
Joan married Llywelyn the Great[23][24]at Ascensiontide 1206,[25] Joan and Llywelyn were married , probably around mid-May.[26][27]
Before 23 March 1204/5, Llywelyn married Joan Fitzjohn, Illegitimate daughter of King John of England. [19] This marriage was offered by King John as a means of cementing his rule over Wales.
Under the terms of the marriage arrangement, Llywelyn would reject any illegitimate children from inheritance rights to his rule, in favor of his eldest legitimate son, who would be Dafydd, born about 1212.
m secondly (after 16 Apr 1205) JOAN [of England], illegitimate daughter of JOHN King of England & his mistress Clementia Pinel (-30 Mar 1237). [18]
King John confirmed "castrum de Ellesmara" to "Lewelino principi Norwallie in maritagium cum Johanna filia nostra" by charter dated 16 Apr 1205[269]. [18]
Her husband sent her to make peace with the king her father in 1211 when the latter was attacking North Wales. She was legitimated in 1226: Pope Honorius III gave dispensation to “Joan wife of Leuwelin prince of North Wales, daughter of king John declaring her legitimate, but without prejudice to the king or realm of England”, dated 29 Apr 1226[270]. [18]
She and her son David did homage to King Henry III in 1229[271]. [18]
The Chronicle of the Princes of Wales records that "William Bruse was hanged by Llywelyn son of Iorewerth, having been caught in the chamber of the prince with the princess Jannet, daughter of King John and wife of the prince" in 1230[272]. [18]
The Annales Cambriæ record the death in 1237 of "domina Johanna filia regis Angliæ et uxor Lewilini principis Walliæ" and her burial "apud Haber"[273]. [18]
The Annals of Tewkesbury record the death “III Kal Apr” in 1236 of “domina Johanna Walliæ, uxor Lewelini, filia regis Johannis et reginæ Clemenciæ”[274]. [18]
The Chronicle of the Princes of Wales records that "Dame Joan daughter of king John and the wife of Llywelyn son of Iorwerth" died in Feb 1237 "at the court of Aber and was buried in a new cemetery on the side of the strand which Howel bishop of Llanelwy had consecrated"[275]. [18]
Llywelyn and Joan's three children were born beginning 1208.[18]
About 1203, the English King, having lost a great part of his territories in France, returned into England. On his arrival, he gave Joan, a daughter, which he had by a lady of the house of Ferres, in marriage to Llewelyn; as a reward for the due observance of the late treaty, or as a means of securing those advantages, which he might think would naturally result from such an alliance. With this lady, was given as a dower, the lordship of Elesmere in Shropshire.[28]
England followed the church’s teachings in not allowing illegitimate lines to rule, so when Joan had Dafydd ap Llywellyn in 1212 the English backed Dafydd’s right to rule Wales in the place of Gruffydd. [30]
This was deemed strange to the welsh considering that Llywellyn had twin sons by a concubine Crystyn, Angharad and Tegwarad, who were also older than Dafydd and technically came second and third in line under Welsh law. [30]
Llywellyn Fawr foreseeing the problems of his two sons, particularly the flaws in Gruffydd, started to work towards declaring Dafydd as his sole heir. He followed Lord Rhys of Deheubarth’s lead by rewriting Welsh law favouring children born into a church sanctioned marriage to promote Anglo-Welsh negotiations for future descendants. [30]
After Gruffydd’s death in 1244, Dafydd rules esclusively until his death in 1246, when Gruffydd’s second son Llywellyn ap Gruffydd became effectively the first “Prince of all Wales.” [30]
1211-1232 Joan's role as ambassadress and intermediary between her husband and the Crown in the period 1211-32 was an important one. [8]
1228: In 1228 Llywelyn's daughter Susanna was made a ward of Nicholas of Verdun: "Henry III King of England granted the upbringing of "L. princeps Norwallie et Johanna uxor sua et…soror nostra Susannam filiam suam" to "Nicholao de Verdun et Clementie uxori sue" by order dated 24 Nov 1228[292]. [13]
1230 William de Braose, 10th Baron Abergavenny, was executed for sleeping with Llywelyn's wife. They were caught in Llywelyn's bedroom.[21][31]
Previously ... Braose allied with Llywelyn during his capture, and arranged a marriage between his daughter Isabella and Llywelyn's heir, Dafydd ap Llywelyn. This was upheld after his execution. Shortly after Braose' death, a letter from Llywelyn to William's wife, Eva asks if she still wants their kid's wedding to take place ... which did happen. Meanwhile, Joan was put on house arrest, but restored to her the next year.[5]
1237: Joan died, "in February, at the court of Aber, and was buried in a new cemetery on the side of the strand ... Howel, bishop of Llanelwy, had consecrated. And in honour of her, Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth, built there a monastery for barefooted monks, which is called Llanvaes in Mona. And then Ieuan, earl of Caerleon, and Cynvrig, son of the lord Rhys, died. That year, there came again a cardinal from Rome to England, sent, as his legate, by pope Gregory the ninth."[21]
1238
"The ensuing year, on the morrow after the feast of St. Luke the Evangelist [Oct. 19], all the princes of Wales sware fidelity to David, son of Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth, at Strata Florida. And then he took, from his brother Gruffudd, Arwystli and Ceri and Cyveiliog and Mawddwy and Mochnant and Caereinion; leaving to him nothing but the cantrev of Lleyn itself. And then Maredudd, son of Madog, son of Gruffudd Maelor, slew his brother Gruffudd; and immediately Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth, divested him of his territory on that account."[21]
Death of Joan
Death
"Llywelyn, son of Iorwerth, prince of Wales, died ... and was buried at Aberconway, after taking the habit of religion. And after him David, his son, by Joan, the daughter of king John ... reigned. The month of May following, David, son of Llywelyn, having with him the barons of Wales, went to Gloucester, to do homage to the king his uncle, and to receive from him his territory lawfully. And then the English sent Walter Marshall, and an army with him, to fortify Aberteivi."[21]
Burial
According to Lee (1893), Llywelyn died 11 April 1240 at the Cisterician Abbey of Aberconwy, Arllechwedd Isaf, Caernarvonshire, Wales, where he had "taken on the habit of religion." He is buried at the abbey.[33]
Llywelyn ap Iorwerth, Prince of Aberffraw, Lord of Snowdon, died at Aberconway Abbey 11 April 1240, where he was buried.[6]
He was later reburied at Llanrwst Parish Church. Gwydir Chapel next to the Church of St. Grwst in Llanrwst, Conway, Wales, contains the empty coffin of Llywelyn the Great. He was originally buried at Aberconwy Abbey, but his coffin was moved to the new abbey at Maenan when the Cistercian monks were forced to move there by Edward I.
The whereabouts of Llywelyn's corpse remains a mystery. (http;//www.walesdirectory.co.uk/Towns_in_Wales/Llanrwst_Town_2.htm)
Aberconway Abbey was also known as Aberconway Abbey Parish Church and is now known as St. Mary and All Saints Church, in Conwy, Conwy County, North Wales.
Issue of Joan and Llywelyn:
While some sources suggest that the mother of most of Llywelyn's illegitimate children was his mistress, Tangwystl Goch (c.1168-1198), Cawley [13] reports only Gruffudd as a child of Tangwystl, with the other illegitimate children the issue of Llywelyn's other mistreses.
Issue:
Why "ap Iorwerth-26" as the WikiTree ID? Richardson[6] and FMG/MedLands[13] both show him as Llywelyn ap Iorwerth; the Cymru project's naming guide calls for including ab, ap, or ferch in the Last Name at Birth (LNAB) field; and "ap" because of the way Iorwerth is pronounced:
Llywelyn ap Iorwerth
[ɬəˈwɛlɨ̞n][3] ap [ˈjɔrwɛrθ][40]
Children | Himself | Parents |
ap Llywelyn & ferch Llywelyn (see list above) | Llywelyn ap Iorwerth | Iorwerth ab Owain ap Gruffudd Margred ferch Madog ap Maredudd |
ab, ap or ferch[41]
"Ferch" actually means "daughter of", so if a woman was named "Elen ferch Llywelyn ap Gwilym", this would mean that her name was Elen, her father's name was Llywelyn, and her father's father's name was Gwilym. Properly, none of these words, "ap", "ab", or "ferch", are capitalized.
The terms come from the fact that those are the words in the Welsh anguage which mean "son of" and "daughter of". Kind of like "filius" in Latin or "...sson" in Scandinavian languages.
The difference between "ap" and "ab" is the sound which follows it. We do the same in the English language with "a bicycle" and "an orange". The spelling and pronunciation of the indefinite article changes depending on whether it preceeds a vowel sound or a consonant sound.
In Welsh, "ap" comes before a consonant sound, thus "Einion ap Llywelyn", "Jenkin ap Gruffudd", "Llywarch ap Bran". "Ab", on the other hand, comes before a vowel sound, thus "Maredudd ab Einion", "Huw ab Owain". The reason I said "vowel sound" and not "vowel" is that in certain circumstances the initial letter "I" in Welsh can sound like a consonant. Thus "Rhys ap Iorwerth" and "Dafydd ap Ieuan". Kind of like in English where an initial "U" can sound like a consonant. We say "a university", not "an university".
As you would expect, not everybody knows enough Welsh to handle patronyms properly, so you'll find lots of variations in the forms, even among people who write on Welsh genealogies. But the above is the correct Welsh way of doing things.
What's in a name? The following "Meaning & History" information is from Behind the Name:
Douglas Richardson states that Hugh, 6th earl of Chester, and his wife Bertrade de Montfort, had one son and five daughters, the last of whom, unnamed, was married to Llywelyn ap Iorwerth, Prince of North Wales. [42]
This does not fit the current narrative.
"We find no further details of Thomas himself; one of his sisters became the wife of Jowerth, the father of the Great llewellyn ap Jowerth." [43]
Little is known of Llewelyn's (sic) early years. It is believed he passed his childhood in Powys and England; by his fifteenth year, he was challenging his uncles for control of Gwynedd. Historians have long been cognizant of his kinship to the Corbet family; he often stayed his hand, spared Corbet lands, and a letter of his addresses William Corbet as "uncle". In the nineteenth century, historians speculated that Llewelyn's mother might be a hitherto unknown Corbet daughter, but Marared ferch Meredydd's (sic) identity has since been established beyond any doubt. Marared must therefore have made a second marriage after Iorwerth's death in 1174. In researching the Corbet family I was able to eliminate Robert Corbet without difficulty. His brother William was the "uncle" of Llewelyn's letter. Walter Corbet was a monk. By the process of elimination, Hugh Corbet had to be Marared's second husband, Llewelyn's stepfather."Penman does not refer to any sources, except Bartrum. [44]
"In the novel Here Be Dragons, Sharon Penman has Llewelyn (she uses that spelling), aged 10, being brought up by his mother Marared and stepfather Sir Hugh Corbet, in Caus Castle, Shropshire following his mother's marriage to Sir Hugh in June/July 1187.[45]
Unknown (Meschines) Fawr, born 1170 [46] See also Unknown Of Chester, a daughter, name unknown, who was briefly married to Llywelyn Fawr; Named by Richardson as third of five daughters. [42]
Married Llywelyn ap Iorwerth, Prince of North Wales. [42] Another unnamed daughter was said to have married Llywelyn Fawr.[47]
See also:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/qPH0BlVAXEs
http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Of_Chester-22
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that I am the 23 Great Granddaughter. Although.
I haven’t found the 23 Great Grandmother connection with his Spouses other than great grand nieces. Oh well. It’s Really Cool though.
That’s really Cool anyway.
edited by Jane (Cournoyer) McNicol
It is a lot of fun finding the ancient connections.
Stuart
Also, G2G discussions about Cawley as a source note that the database is "Medieval Lands", compiled by Charles Cawley, and hosted by FMG, so cites should be to Cawley's MedLands, not to FMG - see https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/264524/is-euroaristo-using-medlands-appropriately
Jack - please post your comments about how WikiTree handles mistresses in G2G.
Cheers, Liz