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Alexander (Menzies) Menzies IXth of Weem (1504 - 1563)

Alexander Menzies IXth of Weem formerly Menzies
Born in Weem, Perthshire, Scotlandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Husband of — married before 1523 in Scotlandmap
Husband of — married after 19 Feb 1558 in Scotlandmap
Descendants descendants
Died at about age 59 in Perth, Perthshire, Scotlandmap
Profile last modified | Created 20 Dec 2013
This page has been accessed 2,984 times.
Scottish Clans
Alexander (Menzies) Menzies IXth of Weem was a prominent member of a Scottish Clan.
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Biography

This profile is part of the Menzies Name Study.
Alexander (Menzies) Menzies IXth of Weem is a member of Clan Menzies.
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Alexander (Menzies) Menzies IXth of Weem was born in Scotland.

ALEXANDER MENZIES, 9thTH OF WEEM, was retoured heir in his father’s estate in 1557. He was the son of Robert Menzies and Christian Gordon.[1] He appeared in parliament in 1526, while still possessed of Enoch, to complain that Thomas Douglas had seized and held the house there and in April 1536 was described as being of Rannoch.[2] On 1 May 1533, King James V granted Alexander Menzies, (1504-1563), son and heir apparent of Sir Robert, the lands and barony of Rannoch (including Downane, Kinclauchir, Cammyserachtis, Ardlaroch, Kilquhonane, Lairan, Ardlair, Largan, the island of Loch Rannoch and Irochty and all the lochs and islands).[3] In February 1557 the Queen Regent sent him a letter exempting him from finding caution for the MacGregors, his tenants in Rannoch.[4] He married first JANET CAMPBELL, daughter of James Campbell, 2nd of Lawers.[1] He married second, KATHARINE M’GHIE[1][5] and died at Perth on 7 March 1563. All decendants from his marriage with Katharine M'ghie are the 'Culdares Branch of Menzies'.[6]

Sources

  1. 1.0 1.1 1.2 Alexander Nisbet. A System of Heraldry, Speculative and Practical, 2 vols. Edinburgh: printed for J. Mackeuen, 1722-1742.ii.246.
  2. R. C. Reid. The Baron[ie]s of Enoch and Durisdeer. Transactions of the Dumfriesshire and Galloway Natural History & Antiquarian Society, 3rd series, VIII (1920-21): 142-183 at 160; Scots Peerage v.499.
  3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barony_of_Rannoch
  4. Reid, Enoch and Durisdeer", 160.
  5. National Records of Scotland, Gifts and Deposits, Edinburgh: H.M General Register House.GD50/186/6/26: Notarial instrument for a contract between Alexander Menzes of that Ilk and Catherine Makget... 19 Feb 1557/8.
  6. The Chronicle of Fortingall, in The Black Book of Taymouth, With Other Papers from the Breadalbane Charter Room, ed. Cosmo Innes. Edinburgh: [T. Constable], 1855. 107-148 at 131.

See also:

  • MacGregor, Gordon. The Red Book of Scotland. Scotland: by the author ( 3rd ed. 2022), vol. 6, p. 993.
  • Wikipedia contributors, "Menzies of Culdares," Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, (accessed September 27, 2020).




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Comments: 14

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Excellent, thank you so much! I've gone ahead and connected Katherine and their sons. Do you mind also adding to the profile sources for each of the boys? The contract indicates they also had daughters....are you able to identify them as well? Thanks very much, Anthony, for all your work on this family.

Jen

posted by Jen (Stevens) Hutton
Hi Jen

There is a mistake in the Biography of this profile; which is for Alexander '9th of Weem' Menzies. The biography refers to him as 10TH OF WEEM. Many Thanks, Patricia Gray Howard-18870.

posted by Patricia (Howard) Gray
Jen,

I'm confused by your last reply and am attaching my record search results:

Reference Title Date Access status GD50/186/6/26 Notarial instrument for a contract between Alexander Menzes of That Ilk and Catherine Makgey, stating that several sons and daughters having been born between them, they agree to marry, and Catherine renounces all terce of heritage and gets an annuity of forty pounds instead during her widowhood, in security whereof the said Alexander undertakes to infeft her in an annual rent out of the Manys of Weym now called Menzes, with witnesses : James Menzes of Camisarnay, John Menzes son of John Menzes in Cultir, Gilbert Robertsone, John Robertsone, Robert Angusonn. Witnesses to the notarial instrument : James Menzes of Camisarnay, John Menzes son of John Menzes in Cultir, Gilbert Robertsone, John Robertsone, Robert Angusonn, and John Menzes son of Thomas Menzes of Sourelandis. Written at Menzes by Andrew Quhyt clerk of the diocese of Dunkeld, public notar. [See GD50/186/6/27]

posted by Anthony Hare
I am hoping that you will post a link to where you saw a copy of GD50/186/6/26. Although MacGregor mentions it in his entry about Alexander, he does not list it in the complete bibliography that is presented in vol. 10 of the RedBook. See https://redbookofscotland.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Red-Book-of-Scotland-Vol-10.pdf (p. 9). MacGregor categorizes all GD entries as referring to "Gifts and Deposits at the National Archives of Scotland," yet there do not appear to be any entries at the archives for any GD50 series of documents. See: https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/private-papers. Please clarify where you found the contract, and possibly even supply a transcript of it. Otherwise we need to get more clarification from MacGregor, in order to be sure such a document actually exists.
posted by Jen (Stevens) Hutton
<ref name = "Find A Grave">Find a Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/248376147/alexander-menzies: accessed 17 November 2023), memorial page for Sir Alexander Menzies (1501–7 Mar 1563), Find a Grave Memorial ID 248376147, citing Weem Parish Churchyard, Aberfeldy, Perth and Kinross, Scotland; Maintained by Eileen Cunningham (contributor 47612450). Find A Grave: Memorial #248376147 </ref>

The above contains a citation referring to marriage to Catherine MacGhie (Katherine Makie is phonetic spelling Red Book Vol. 6, pg. 727.) This refers back to the Nisbet reference Alexander Nisbet. A System of Heraldry, Speculative and Practical, 2 vols. Edinburgh: printed for J. Mackeuen, 1722-1742.ii.246.

Since the Profile is protected I did not add the FAG citation, which is obviously correct.

Also please note the citation GD50/186/6/26 which refers to a marriage contract that details that they had children together and agreed to marry sometime between 1558 and 1563.

I have created a profile Makgie-1 which already includes all the children of the marriage, with references to the parents at birth.

Please advise.

posted by Anthony Hare
I am afraid Find A Grave is not considered a reliable source for pre-1700 profiles, especially if it does not include a contemporary (to the period) image of the gravesite. Oddly, MacGregor does not include GD50/186/6/26 in his bibliography in vol. 10 of the Red Book and a search of the Gifts and Deposits at the National Archives of Scotland turns up no record of any document bearing that number. It might be a good idea to send an inquiry to MacGregor to see where he accessed this marriage contract, or if perhaps he may have transcribed the number incorrectly.
posted by Jen (Stevens) Hutton
I have added The Red Book of Scotland in the 'possible sources' section of the profile, but am archiving comments which quote entire entries from this source, which is protected by copyright. This profile needs a good bit of work and is on the Scotland Project's lengthy to do list, but if anyone wants to work on it before the project can get to it your assistance will be welcome. His wife's birthdate and the date of their marriage need to be sourced as one of them is probably incorrect. Also when using the Redbook it is preferable, whenever possible, to go directly to the sources cited there and use those sources, providing a complete citation with a direct link to them (many are available online). Suggesting additional sources here in the comments section is absolutely encouraged....but please remember that citing entire entries from any source which is under copyright will result in that comment being removed. Thanks for your understanding.

Jen, Scotland Project co-leader

posted by Jen (Stevens) Hutton
Please CONNECT the following profiles via the second marriage to Katherine Makgie Makgie-1 ( KATHARINE M’GHIE) CS7/35/ff.473-7., <ref name = "Red Book">MacGregor, Gordon. The Red Book of Scotland. Scotland: by the author (2016), rev. 2020, vol. 6, p. 727.</ref>:

George Menzies Menzies-6354, Alexander Menzies Menzies-6352, James Menzies Menzies-6353, Thomas Menzies Menzies-6355

Additionally, he was the natural son of William Menzies Menzies-6356.

Thank You! Anthony

posted by Anthony Hare
edited by Anthony Hare
Hi Anthony,

Thanks for your interest in this profile. Can you provide any primary sources for these relationships? It would be helpful to check any sources which are listed in the Red Book or to find other reliable sources to support them. It would also be a good idea to connect Alexander with his (second) wife before adding their children.

Jen

posted by Jen (Stevens) Hutton
6. William Menzies, in favour of whom a legitimation passed the Great Seal on

16 June 1553.1

posted by Anthony Hare

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