John (Moravia) Sutherland Eighth Earl of Sutherland (abt. 1435 - 1508)

Born about 1435 in Sutherland, Scotland

Ancestors

Descendants

Died 1508 at about age 73 in Sutherland, Scotland

Problems/Questions Profile managers: Anthony Hare [send private message] and Doug Straiton [send private message]

Biography

John (Moravia) Sutherland Eighth Earl of Sutherland is a member of Clan Sutherland.

John de Moravia, later 8th Earl of Sutherland, was the second, but eldest surviving, son of John, seventh Earl, and his wife, Margaret Baillie, perhaps a daughter or sister of one of the Earl's fellow hostages at Pontefract, Sir William Baillie of Hoprig and Lamington. ^[1]

He first appear on the Scottish record in the resignation made in his favour by his father on 22 February 1455-56 when he was clearly of age. ^[2] He was therefore born c. 1435. John was secured in the earldom by the usual forms, under reservation of the liferent of certain lands to his father and mother as was common practise at the time.

History records little about him although a mental weakness is stated. A brieve of idiotry was issued by King James IV. in 1494, and after the usual proceedings the Earl was, by a jury, declared incapable of managing his own affairs, and he was placed under the care of a tutor, Sir James Dunbar of Oumnock. ^[3] The cause of this condition is not stated.

He last appeared on record, in a litigation against him, in 1501 and is said to have died in 1508.^[4]

Family

He is said to have married three times. ^[5]

Firstly; The family historian, Sir Robert Gordon, says this Earl married a daughter of Alexander Macdonald, Lord of the Isles, though Balfour Paul is sceptical. Sir Robert adds that this lady was nearly drowned while crossing the ferry at Unes, and was found in a state of weakness and slain by a robber. Balfour Paul suggests she must have been his first wife.

His second wife was apparently Fingole (said to have been a daughter of William of Calder, Thane of Cawdor), widow of John Monro of Fowlis, who died some time before April 1491. She must have been the mother of Alexander named below, as he had a brother, Mr. Robert Monro. In February 1497-98 there were preparations for a divorce between her and the Earl, which the Lords of Council referred to the Vicar-General of Caithness.

The Earl married a third time, as between 1509 and 1512 a Catherine, Countess of Sutherland, is credited with her terce from the earldom.

Balfour Paul suggests the children from the first marriage were:

• John de Moravia (Sutherland), later 9th Earl of Sutherland.
• Elizabeth de Moravia, afterwards Countess of Sutherland.

The Earl has another son, mentioned prior:

• Alexander de Moravia. Sir Robert Gordon asserts definitely that he was illegitimate, and that his mother was a daughter of Ross of Balnagown but this appears disputed in fact. Balfour Paul notes that "He was born in 1491, and in 1509, when only eighteen, he opposed the service of his brother John as heir to their father, and requested that curators ad lites should be appointed to himself." That this action was successful suggests he was legitimate. He was advised to renounce his right in and to the earldom in favour of his brother John and sister Elizabeth, and her husband Adam Gordon, reserving his right of succession if their heirs wholly failed. As a compensation he was secured in lands worth forty merks yearly, which sum was duly paid to him. The dates and actions suggest he was a son of Fingole.^[6] He was involved in many actions against his siblings and was killed in a conflict near Kintradwell, in the parish of Loth, in 1519 or 1520. He married a daughter of lye Roy Mackay of Strathnaver, and had Children.

Sources

• Wikidata Q75250370

Footnotes:

1. ↑ Balfour Paul: Vol 8, Page 331
2. ↑ Balfour Paul: Vol 8, Page 332
3. ↑ Balfour Paul: Vol 8, Page 333
4. ↑ Balfour Paul: Vol 8, Page 334
5. ↑ Balfour Paul: Vol 8, Page 334
6. ↑ Balfour Paul: Vol 8, Page 334

Publications:

• Balfour Paul, Sir James. The Scots Peerage (David Douglas, Edinburgh, 1904-1914); in 9 Volumes; Earl of Sutherland - Volume 8

Links

• de Moravia of Stherland - not free access.

Research Note by Genealogist of Clan Sutherland

With most members of the extended Sutherland family pre-1600, the place and date of birth is rarely recorded and took place before the earliest date of surviving Church records. The age, origins and other details of most are obtained through the content of Wills, Testaments and Land Charters.

For women, they first appear in the Marriage Contracts and Settlements entered into on their behalf by their fathers or brothers. In some cases there may be little or no record of a woman in her own family but her origins have been recorded in the records of the family into which she married, especially if she subsequently became mother of an heir.

For men, generally only the eldest son is fully recorded, his younger brothers only being named if granted land in their own right or through inheritance by marrying an heiress. The other main source of information on men comes from military service, especially where recorded as having been killed in a particular battle.

John M Sutherland-Fisher Genealogist of Clan Sutherland