Nicholas Poyntz Esq
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Nicholas Poyntz Esq (abt. 1393 - 1460)

Nicholas Poyntz Esq aka Poyntz
Born about in Iron Acton, Gloucestershire, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Son of and
Brother of , , , , and
Husband of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Husband of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Father of , , and
Died at about age 67 in Iron Acton, Gloucestershire, Englandmap
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Profile last modified | Created 21 Feb 2011
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Nicholas Poyntz is in a trail badged by the Magna Carta Project to surety baron William Malet (see text below).

Contents

Biography

Nicholas Poyntz was the eldest son and heir of Robert Poyntz Esq. and his wife Katherine FitzNichol.[1][2][3][4] His father's IPM gives his age as 40 years and more in 1440.[5][6] However, he was clearly older than this and likely closer to age 50. He was born about 1390 based on his parent's marriage by March 1389, and the fact that he appears to have been an adult when land was settled on him in 1411.
The career of Nicholas Poyntz followed a path very similar to his father. He was escheator for Gloucestershire in 1425 and 1435.[7] He was a knight of the shire for Gloucestershire in 1431.[8] Like his father, he became a retainer, receiver and steward for the lands of the Stafford in Gloucestershire and Herefordshire. He was the attorney for Humphrey Stafford, Duke of Buckingham for a suit in 1438. That same year he was appointed receiver for the Stafford estates in Gloucestershire, Hampshire and Wiltshire.[9][10] In 1439, he was in Brecon as an itinerate justice for the Duke of Buckingham and a joint tenant at Bronllys Castle. This was a delicate position for Nicholas as the castle was claimed by both Henry V and the Duke of Buckingham.[11] Nicholas would continue as a receiver for the Staffords until 1453 when he was succeeded by his deputy Thomas Berkeley.[12] It was a position which would have kept him traveling from county to county and estate to estate for many weeks to months at a time.
From both his father and mother he acquired significant estates which he would continue to add to by his association with the Staffords. From his father, he inherited the manors of Iron Acton, Frampton Cotterell, Winston and Elkstone which had been originally obtained by his grandfather John Poyntz following the death of John Acton in 1362. The manor of Hill his mother made over to him in 1448.[13] It seems that Hill became his principal home as it was only three miles from Thornbury, a convenient base for a Stafford administrator. Nympsfield was another FitzNichol manor inherited through his mother. The manors of Brokenborough and Daglingworth he purchased from James Berkeley, Lord Berkeley.[14]
Nicholas was at least married twice and maybe three times. That he may have had a first wife Margaret is shown by a record in 1411 where his father settled Elkstone on Nicholas and Margaret his wife.[15] If so, they had no known children and the History of Parliament does suggest that this record actually marks the marriage of Nicholas to Elizabeth Mill (or Mylle), daughter of Thomas Mylle of Tremyll.[16] There is no other mention of a wife Margaret in any record. Nicholas and Elizabeth Mille had two sons, John and Humphrey. John was the oldest son and heir and received the majority of the Poyntz land holdings. That Humphrey was a son by Nicholas' first wife is inferred from the fact that he was not mentioned in the 1450 charter.[17] Nicholas granted Humphrey the manor of Elkstone. This manor, which can be traced from owner to owner from the early 13th century, would continue in Humphrey's descendants. He was the executor of his father-in-law's will made in 1420.[18]
His second wife was Elizabeth Hussey. A charter dated 17 September 1450 settled Brokenborough and Daglingworth on himself and his wife with successive remainders to his children by his second wife. The children named in order were sons Maurice, Thomas, Nicholas and Henry, followed by eldest daughter Alice wife of Maurice Denys, middle daughter Margaret wife of John Lisle, and finally youngest daughter Joanna. A fourth daughter from the Visitations, Elizabeth, would not be listed in a charter such as this as she was a nun who could never inherit or hold land.
Nicholas died shortly before 20 September 1460 when a writ of diem clausit extremum following his death.[19] His son John was given seizen of his estates on 28 October 1460.[20] His wife was still living on 7 December 1470 when she was assigned dower.[21]

Birth

Born: About 1390.
Estimate based on his parent's marriage and the fact that he appears to have been an adult by 1411.

Marriages and Children

Married: 1st - Margaret Unknown about 1411. The grant of Elkstone in 1411 names his wife as Margaret.[22] This marriage is generally not given as it does not appear in the Visitations or any other record. It would explain why his children appear to have been born much later than expected for a man married in 1411. It is possible that this Margaret never existed, but you would have to suppose that the 1411 record was a clerical error. They had no children.
Married: 1st - Elizabeth Mille was either the first wife or a second wife of Nicholas Poyntz. They were married between 1411 (assuming the Elkstone grant to be a clerical error) and 1420 (based on the estimated birth date of eldest son). She was the daughter of Thomas Mille and Juliana Rous of Tremylle and Harescombe. They had two sons, John and Humphrey.
Married: 2nd - Elizabeth Hussey
Children of Nicholas Poyntz and Elizabeth Mill:
  1. John Poyntz. Born by 1420. Eldest son and heir. He married by 1451 Alice Cookes. They had four sons and three daughters. John died shortly before 13 December 1466.[23]
  2. Humphrey Poyntz. Younger son by his first wife. He married before 1466 to Elizabeth Pollard. Humphrey died on 10 October 1487.
Children of Nicholas Poyntz and Elizabeth Hussey:
Birth order as named in 1450 charter.
  1. Maurice Poyntz. Born say 1428. First son named in 1450 charter. His will was made October 1501 and proved in November 1501. It names his wife Elena. Apparently no children.
  2. Thomas Poyntz. Born say 1430. Second son named in 1450 charter. Grant from his brother of Nympsfield in 1451.
  3. Nicholas Poyntz. Third son named in 1450 charter. No further record.
  4. Henry Poyntz. Fourth son named in 1450 charter. He married about 1478 Alice, widow of William Carpenter of Bristol.
  5. Alice Poyntz. Called eldest daughter in 1450 charter. She married Maurice Denys by a marriage settlement dated 1 November 1437.
  6. Margaret Poyntz. Called middle daughter in 1450 charter. She married John Lisle.
  7. Joan Poyntz. Called youngest daughter in 1450 charter. She married William Doddington.[24]

Death

Died: Shortly before 20 September 1460 when a writ of diem clausit extremum was issued following his death.[25]

Research Notes

  • Dates of marriages: The HoP for his father states he married his first wife in 1411 when Elkstone was settled on Nicholas.[26] However, his son John's son and heir wasn't born until 1451, and Humphrey's son and heir wasn't born until 1465.[27] These both imply that John and Humphrey were not born until the late 1420s or even 1430s, and so a much later marriage date for Nicholas. However, the 1450 charter tells us he had at least 7 more children born to his second wife by 1450, and two of the daughters were already married.
- Son John: HoP place his birth as about 1420. Based on admittance to Lincoln's Inn about 1444. Married by 1457.
- Son Humphrey: Humphrey's son and heir was not born until 1465.
- Son Thomas: Maclean states that John Poyntz confirmed to his brother Thomas Poyntz a moiety of the manor of Nympsfield in 1451. I believe this to be an error and the Thomas Poyntz referred to is actually his uncle Thomas Poyntz of Frampton Cotterell and Nympsfield.
  • Help with dates:


  • Sheriff? This profile previously called him a Sherriff of Gloucestershire. He never served as sheriff.[28]
  • Knight: This profile previously called him Sir Nicholas Poyntz. However, he never was knighted and remained an esquire, just like his father, throughout his lifetime. He was called esquire in his writ at the time of his death.
  • Tockington and Swell: Both Maclean and Richardson state that Nicholas owned the manors to Tockington and Swell. This is not clear. These manors were anciently held by the Poyntz family as far back as the 11th century. However, they descended in the senior line of Poyntz of Cury Malet to Nicholas Poyntz (d. 1376) of Cory Malet who sold Tockington and Swell to Thomas Berkeley (d. 1361) in 1355.[29] In the IPM of Humphrey Stafford, Duke of Buckingham six knights fees were held by the heirs of Nicholas Poyntz of the Honour of Gloucester of his manors of Tockington and Swell. However, these six knight's fees seem to descend separately from the manors, and the "heirs of Nicholas Poyntz" does not seem to refer to this Nicholas Poyntz but rather to the Nicholas Poyntz of Cory Malet who died all the way back in 1376. These same six knight's fees are found in 1403 in the IPM of his father Edmund Stafford as being those "Nicholas Poyntz formerly held" at a time when there was no Nicholas Poyntz at Iron Acton.[30][31] Before that, the same six fees were in the IPM of his grandfather Hugh Stafford in 1386 as being held by Nicholas Poyntz at a time when there was no Nicholas Poyntz at Iron Acton.[32][33] The same six fees were "formerly held by Nicholas Poyntz" in the IPMs of his great-uncles Thomas Stafford and William Stafford in 1392 and 1395.[34][35]
  • Who did Joan marry? The 1623 Visitations of Gloucester says that Joan married William Doddington of Woodland. This is also followed by Richardson.[36] However, the Visitations of Wiltshire says she was a daughter of Robert Poyntz.[37] It is worth noting that the Visitations of Wiltshire is notoriously unreliable as additions by antiquarians has introduced 100s of errors to the printed version.

Sources

Footnotes and Citations:
  1. ↑ Richardson. Royal Ancestry. (2013): vol. IV page 291.
  2. ↑ Maclean. Visitation of Gloucester taken in 1623. (1885): page 130, Poyntz pedigree.
  3. ↑ Metcalfe. Visitations of Essex, vol. 1. (1878): pages 267-271.
  4. ↑ Berry. Families of Sussex. (1830): pages 351-353.
  5. ↑ Noble. Cal. of Inquisitions Post Mortem, vol. 25. ( 2010): page 458, IPM of Robert Poyntz.
  6. ↑ Mapping the Medieval Countryside website. IPM of Robert Poyntz, Esquire E 149/170/10 m. 1
  7. ↑ Wood. List of Escheators for England and Wales. (1971): pages 53-54.
  8. ↑ Williams. Parliamentary History of Gloucester. (1898): page 34.
  9. ↑ Rawcliffe. The Staffords: 1394-1521. (1978):Appendix B Google Books snippet view.
  10. ↑ Rodwell. Acton Court. (2004): pages 19-20.
  11. ↑ GB PRO. Cal. of the Fine Rolls, vol. 17. (1937): pages 179-180.
  12. ↑ Rawcliffe. The Staffords: 1394-1521. (1978): page 47; page 209.
  13. ↑ GB PRO. Cal. of the Patent Rolls, Hen. VI 1446-1452, vol. 5. (1909): page 148.
  14. ↑ GB PRO. Cal. of the Patent Rolls, Hen. VII 1485-1494, vol. 1. (1914): page 433.
  15. ↑ GB PRO. Cal. of the Patent Rolls, Hen. IV , vol. 4. (1909): pages 297-298.
  16. ↑ HoP: History of Parliament Online. Poyntz, Robert (1359-1439).
  17. ↑ Maclean. Memoir of the Family of Poyntz. (1886): page 58.
  18. ↑ HoP: History of Parliament Online. Mille (Mulle), Thomas (d.1422), of Traymill.
  19. ↑ GB PRO. Cal. of the Fine Rolls, vol. 19. (1939): page 282.
  20. ↑ GB PRO. Cal. of the Fine Rolls, vol. 19. (1939): page 282.
  21. ↑ GB PRO. Cal. of the Close Rolls, Ed. IV, vol. 2. (1953): page 57; page 149.
  22. ↑ GB PRO. Cal. of the Patent Rolls, Hen. IV , vol. 4. (1909): page 297.
  23. ↑ GB PRO. Cal. of the Fine Rolls, volume 20. (1949): page 177.
  24. ↑ Maclean. Visitation of Gloucester taken in 1623. (1885): page 130, Poyntz pedigree.
  25. ↑ GB PRO. Cal. of the Fine Rolls, vol. 19. (1939): page 282.
  26. ↑ HoP: History of Parliament Online. Poyntz, Robert (1359-1439).
  27. ↑ GB PRO. Cal. of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Hen. VII, Vol. 1. (1898): pages 133-134, Humphrey Poyntz.
  28. ↑ Elrington. "List of Sheriffs of Gloucestershire" in TBGAS, volume 128. (2010): pages 207–227 .
  29. ↑ Maclean. "Manor of Tockington" in TBGAS, vol. 12. (1887-1888): 123-169, see page 135.
  30. ↑ GB PRO. Cal. of Inquisitions Post Mortem, vol. 18. (1987): pages 15-30, see [page 26.
  31. ↑ Stokes. Abstracts of IPMs for Gloucestershire, part VI 1359-1413. (1914): pages 233-234.
  32. ↑ GB PRO. Cal. of Inquisitions Post Mortem, vol. 16. (1974): pages 159-172, see page 166.
  33. ↑ Stokes. Abstracts of IPMs for Gloucestershire, part VI 1359-1413. (1914): pages 150-152.
  34. ↑ GB PRO. Cal. of Inquisitions Post Mortem, , vol. 17. (1988): pages 88-109, see page 103, and pages 477-495, see page 492
  35. ↑ Stokes. Abstracts of IPMs for Gloucestershire, part VI 1359-1413. (1914): pages 175-177; pages 213-215.
  36. ↑ Richardson. Royal Ancestry. (2013): vol. IV page 291.
  37. ↑ Metcalfe. Visitation of Wiltshire 1565. (1897): page 16.
Source list:
  • Berry, William. County Genealogies: Pedigrees of the Families in the County of Sussex. (London, 1830): pages 351-353.
  • Elrington, Christopher. "List of Sheriffs of Gloucestershire" in Transactions of the Bristol & Gloucestershire Archaeological Society, volume 128. (2010): 207–227 .
  • Great Britain. Calendar of the Close Rolls, Henry VI 1454-1461, volume 6. (London, 1947): page 82, page 134, page 465.
  • Great Britain. Calendar of the Close Rolls, Edward IV 1468-1476, volume 2. (London, 1953): page 57; page 149.
  • Great Britain. Calendar of the Fine Rolls, Henry VI: 1437-1445, volume 17. (London, 1937): pages 179-180.
  • Great Britain. Calendar of the Fine Rolls, Henry VI 1452-1461, volume 19. (London, 1939): page 282; page 293.
  • Great Britain. Calendar of the Fine Rolls, Edward IV, Henry VI: 1461-1471, volume 20. (London, 1949): page 177.
  • Great Britain, Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Henry VII: 1485-1496, Volume 1. (London, 1898): pages 133-134, Humphrey Poyntz.
  • Great Britain. Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Richard II: 1384-1392, volume 16. (London, 1974): pages 159-172, see page 166. Available at British History Online.
  • Great Britain, Claire Noble ed. Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, 16 to 20 Henry VI: 1437-1442, volume 25. (London, 2010): page 458, IPM of Robert Poyntz.
  • Great Britain. Calendar of the Patent Rolls, Henry IV 1408-1413, volume 4. (London, 1909): page 297.
  • Great Britain. Calendar of the Patent Rolls, Henry VI 1446-1452, volume 5. (London, 1909): page 148.
  • Great Britain. Calendar of the Patent Rolls, Henry VII 1485-1494, volume 1. (London, 1914): page 433.
  • Maclean, John. Historical and Genealogical Memoir of the Family of Poyntz. (Exeter, 1886): pages 57-59, pages 94-97.
  • Maclean, John. "Manor of Tockington, and the Roman Villa" in Transactions of the Bristol and Gloucestershire Archaeological Society, volume 12. (1887-1888): pages 123-169.
  • Maclean, Sir John ed. Visitation of the County of Gloucester taken in the year 1623. (London: Harleian Society Visitation Series vol. 21, 1885): page 130, Poyntz pedigree. Google Books Internet Archive.
  • Mapping the Medieval Countryside: Inquisitions post mortem (IPMs) from c. 1236 to 1509 (website). A research project of University of Winchester and King's College London, Principal Investigator Professor Michael Hicks, University of Winchester. IPM of Robert Poyntz, Esquire E 149/170/10 m. 1
  • McClory, Sean . "The Poyntz Family of Acton" in Journal of the Poyntzpass and District Local History Society, No. 14 (November 2017): pages 31-43. Available at JSTOR.
  • Metcalfe, Walter C. ed. Visitations of Essex by Hawley, 1552; Hervey, 1558; Cooke, 1570; Raven, 1612; and Owen and Lilly, 1634. To which are added Miscellaneous Essex Pedigrees from Various Harleian Manuscripts: and an Appendix containing Berry's Essex Pedigrees, volume I. (London: Harleian Society Visitation Series volume 13, 1878): pages 267-271.
  • Metcalfe, Walter C. ed. Visitation of Wiltshire 1565. (1897): page 16.
  • Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, in 5 volumes. (Salt Lake City, Utah, 2013): vol. IV page 291.
  • Rodwell, Kirsty and Robert Bell. Acton Court: The Evolution of an Early Tudor courtier's House. (2004): pages 19-20.
  • Stokes, Ethel. Abstracts of Inquisitiones Post Mortem for Gloucestershire, part VI 1359-1413. (London: British Record Society, 1914): pages 213-215; pages 233-234.
  • Williams, William Retlaw. The Parliamentary History of the County of Gloucester. (1898): page 34.
  • Wood, A.C. List of Escheators for England and Wales, compiled by A. C. Wood.... (List and Index Society volume 72, 1971): pages 53-54.
See also:
  • Burke, John. A Genealogical and Heraldic history of the Commoners of Great Britain, volume 3. (London, 1836): pages 537-540.
  • Dallaway, James. A History of the Western Division of the County of Sussex, volume 2 part 1 (London, 1815): pages 283-284.

Acknowledgements

Magna Carta Project

Nicholas Poyntz Esq appears in Magna Carta Ancestry in a Richardson-documented trail from Gateway Ancestor Agnes Harris to Magna Carta Surety Baron William Malet (vol. II, pages 363-365 HARRIS). The trail was badged by the Magna Carta Project in November 2014 by April Dauenhauer and needs re-review to bring it up to current project standards. The trail is set out in the Magna Carta Trails section of Elizabeth Collamore's profile.
Nicholas Poyntz Esq appears in Magna Carta Ancestry in a Richardson-documented trail from Gateway Ancestor Thomas Owsley to Magna Carta Surety Baron William Malet (vol. III, pages 281-289 OWSLEY) that was badged by the Magna Carta project in June 2015. The trail is set out in the Magna Carta Trails section on the Gateway's Profile.
  • Needs Re-review: This profile needs re-review against the project's checklist to bring it up to current project standards. ~ Thiessen-117 19:32, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
See Base Camp for more information about Magna Carta trails. See the project's glossary for project-specific terms, such as a "badged trail".




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Stanton-3574 T Stanton
Does Richardson give the children of this Nicholas Poyntz? There appear to be quite a number not found in WT based upon the research of Sir John Maclean. In particular, I am looking for a daughter Maclean gives as ____________ Poyntz who married John Codrington (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Codrington-181). Source: Maclean, Sir John, Manor of Tockington, and the Roman Villa, Transactions of the Bristol and Gloucestershire Archaeological Society, 1887-88, Vol. 12, 123-169, https://www2.glos.ac.uk/bgas/tbgas/v012/bg012123.pdf p 151 There do not appear to be full citations for this generation of Poyntz given in the (extensive) pedigree in the cited article. Maclean gives the same information in another article. It may be read that he died before completing his work on the Codrington family.
posted by T Stanton
Cayley-55 Michael Cayley
Thanks, Todd, for asking. This profile needs an overhaul by the Magna Carta Project - it is in a long queue of profiles awaiting attention, and children will need to be checked out when that is done.

Richardson gives the following children (Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd edition, Vol. III, pp. 285-286 and Royal Ancestry, Vol. IV, pp. 291-292):

By Elizabeth Mill John, Humphrey

By Elizabeth Hussey Thomas, Maurice, Nicholas, Henry, Alice, Elizabeth who became a nun, Margaret who married John Lisle, Joan who married William Doddington

Maclean gives no source for the (unnamed) daughter whom he ascribes to Nicholas's marriage to Elizabeth Mill and whom he says married John Codrington. What he says must be treated with caution. What Richardson does say is that a John Codrington married an unnamed daughter of Nicholas's son John. So it looks as if Richardson believes Maclean attached the Poyntz who married John Codrington to the wrong father. This obviously needs research.

posted by Michael Cayley
edited by Michael Cayley
Stanton-3574 T Stanton
Based upon caution I am asking the question as Maclean had not completed his work on the Codrington family at the time he died and in two instances which appear to be some years apart wrote _______ Poyntz. Does Richardson give a source for the unnamed daughter who he believes married John Poyntz? I do not have access to the Richardson works without considerable travel (or considerable expenditure). There does not appear to have been significant research on these generations of Codrington since Maclean (at least none that I have so far encountered) so working toward finding what connection may or may not exist between Codrington and Poyntz from research on Poyntz. I do understand there is a considerable backlog of profiles being reviewed by Magna Carta project and that many take significant time.
posted by T Stanton
Cayley-55 Michael Cayley
The two Maclean mentions of John Codrington marrying someone said to be a daughter of Nicholas are more or less contemporaneous, and are in what are effectively duplicated pedigrees published in two separate places:

- Vol. XII of the Transactions of the Bristol and Archaeological Society, for the years 1887-8. The pedigree appears in an article by John Maclean entitled "The Manor of Tockington and the Roman Villa". The relevant page is p. 151, viewable at https://archive.org/details/transactionsbris12bris/page/150/mode/2up?q=codrington.

- "Historical and genealogical memoir of the family of Poyntz : or, eight centuries of an English house" by John Maclean, Part 1, privately printed, 1886, p. 95, viewable at https://archive.org/details/historicalgeneal01macl/page/94/mode/2up

So this is not Maclean reaching the same conclusion on two different occasions some years apart.

We have discussions on all this in three different places: here on this profile; in a G2G thread started several days ago, https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1656097/identification-of-wife-of-john-codrington-d-c-1485, and in a g2G thread started today, https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1657947/children-of-sir-nicholas-poyntz-c-1393-1460?show=1657962#a1657962. This risks confusion and duplication of effort, and people not knowing what has already been responded to. I suggest confining future discussion to the G2G thread started a few days ago, https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1656097/identification-of-wife-of-john-codrington-d-c-1485. I will be copying information to that thread from here, and from the G2G thread started today.

posted by Michael Cayley
edited by Michael Cayley
Lee-5956 Robin Lee
Poyntz-137 and Poyntz-15 appear to represent the same person because: same person, both wives are documented on -15, will need to work the dates of the children's births
posted by Robin Lee
Noland-165 Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Verified this profile as being on a project-approved trail (from Owsley-29 to Malet-18). The project account for the Magna Carta Project will be added as a manager later this month to meet WikiTree guidelines (see Help:Project-Managed_Profiles). Give me a holler if you have any questions. ~ Liz, Magna Carta project member
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett

Featured National Park champion connections: Nicholas is 16 degrees from Theodore Roosevelt, 21 degrees from Stephanus Johannes Paulus Kruger, 15 degrees from George Catlin, 17 degrees from Marjory Douglas, 25 degrees from Sueko Embrey, 17 degrees from George Grinnell, 25 degrees from Anton Kröller, 16 degrees from Stephen Mather, 23 degrees from Kara McKean, 17 degrees from John Muir, 15 degrees from Victoria Hanover and 27 degrees from Charles Young on our single family tree. Login to find your connection.

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