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Thomas Saunders (abt. 1380)

Thomas Saunders
Born about in Charlwood, Surrey, Englandmap
Son of and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
[spouse(s) unknown]
Descendants descendants
Father of
Died [date unknown] in Surrey, Englandmap
Problems/Questions
Profile last modified | Created 6 Mar 2011
This page has been accessed 4,822 times.

Contents

Biography

Thomas was the son of Stephen Saunders of Charlwood, Surrey.[1] He may have been born in about 1380.

Thomas appears several times in the manorial court rolls Charlwood, Surrey.[1] He was a witness to a grant of land in Charlwood in 1407.[2]

Thomas married Joan Odworth, the daughter of John and Agnes Odworth of Charlwood, before 7th December 1406, the date of a lease from Agnes Odworth to Thomas Saunder and Joan his wife, whom Agnes describes as her daughter.[3] They had at least the following children:[4]

In 1446 and 1450 Thomas and his son William acquired land in Charlwood.[1]

In 1449 Thomas (described as "the elder yoman") and his sons William, John and Richard took part in an uprising against the administration of the Duke of Suffolk, with one of its demands the return from exile of the Duke of York. They subsequently received a pardon for this.[5]

In 1451 Thomas and his son William granted a tenement called Oddeworth to Thomas's son Richard. Thomas is referred to as Thomas senior in this grant.[6]

Thomas made a will dated 10 August 1442. He granted his capital messuage "which sometime was Stephen Saundre's" and other land in Charlwood to his son WIlliam, a tenement called Oddeworthe in Charlwood to his son Richard, a moiety of a tenement called Pages in Charlwood to his son John, and a tenement called Saundreplace in Charlwood to his son Thomas.

Thomas and his wife Johanna/Joan were buried in Charlwood, with an undated inscription in the church porch.[7]

Research Notes

Thomas has previously been shown on WikiTree as husband of Joan Pollard, who was also shown as mother of his son William. There appears to be no good sourcing for this, and, as stated above, records indicate that Thomas married Joan Odworth.

Sources

  1. 1.0 1.1 1.2 Ruth Sewill & Elisabeth Lane. The Free Men of Charlwood, 1979, pp. 46-47, viewable as PDF on Charlwood Society website
  2. West Sussex Record Office, ref. SAS-EG/30, National Archives Discovery Centre entry
  3. West Sussex Record office, ref. SAS-EG/29, catalogue entry
  4. Will of Thomas Saundre senr. of Cherlewode, West Sussex Record Office, ref. SAS-EG/41, catalogue entry
  5. Ruth Sewill & Elisabeth Lane. The Free Men of Charlwood, p. 43
  6. West Sussex Record Office, ref. SAS-EG/46, National Archives Discovery Centre entry
  7. 'Parishes: Charlwood', in A History of the County of Surrey: Volume 3, ed. H E Malden (London, 1911), pp. 182-189, footnote 51, British History Online, accessed 23 October 2021

Acknowledgements

Thank you to Anonymous Baker and Vance Mead for supplying information and sources for this profile.





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Comments: 13

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I plan to do some work on this profile soon. There is no evidence that Thomas had the middle name Alexander, so I am removing that. (Middle names were virtually nonexistent in this period.) The records of Charlwood, Surrey show his father as Stephen, so I intend to detach Thomas's currently shown parents.
posted by Michael Cayley
Thomas Saundre's Will - http://185.121.204.173/SearchOnline/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=SAS-EG%2f1%2f1%2f41&pos=8 ; transcript from West Sussex Record Office catalogue -

SAS-EG - Deeds of Thomas Eggar & Sons, and Biddle & Co 1 - Thomas Eggar & Sons, Solicitors: deeds of Charlwood (Surrey), Henfield, Cowfold, Shermanbury etc 1 - Charlwood, Surrey Catalogue No. SAS-EG/41 Title Will (indented and chirographed) Date 10 Aug 1442

Description Of Thomas Saundre senr. of Cherlewode (Charlwood) as well of his lands and tenements in Cherlewode (Charlewood), Horle (Horley), Noteherst (Nuthurst), and Horsham, as well as of all lands and tenements which the said Thomas and William Sandre his son, Richard Ayllard lately had jointly by demise and feoffment of Robert Burstowe of Horle, John Waleys and John Clerk in Cherlewode

First. The said William Saundre to have the capital messuage with garden and appurtenances which the testator was inhabiting in Cherlwode, which sometime was Stephen Saundre's, and another tenement called Jowdrees together with all lands to the same messuage belonging in Cherlewode, except two crofts called Welhilde and Wilhawe, and another croft called Pagescroft, parcel of the tenement called Jowdres The said William also to have and enjoy a parcel of land called Oldewowers and another parcel of land called Stapelers in Horle, and also another tenement called the Place atte Mere with all lands belonging, as well freehold as copyhold, in Noteherst (Nuthurst) and Horsham, co. Sussex

Richard Saundre, testator's son, to have and enjoy a tenement called Oddeworthe in Cherlwode and Horle, and also in recompense as well of the said capital messuage sometime Stephen Saundre's as of the lands of free tenure in Noteherst (Nuthurst), the said Richard Saundre to have land called Apsetlond in Horle

John Saundre, testator's son, to have and enjoy a moiety of a tenement called Pages in Cherlewode, with a croft annexed, parcel of the tenement called Jowdrees and also a parcel of land called Thedomes (See SAS-EG/35) in the same parish; also the said crofts called Welhilde and Welhawe

Thomas Saundre, testator's son, to have and enjoy a tenement called Saundreplace which sometime was Raginald Gerardes near the Churchestile of Cherlewode, and two parcels of land called Wellond and Holbrokefeldes and a croft called Evenynges with garden to the same adjoining, and a field called Bassettisfeld in Cherlewode Witnesses:- John Burstowe of Horle, Thos. Whyte junr., John Clerk. Dated at Suthwark. Tag for seal

posted by Anonymous Baker
edited by Anonymous Baker
The wife of Thomas Saundre was Joan Oddeworth/Odworth, the daughter of John and Agnes Oddeworth/Odworth of Charlwood. They married before 7th December 1406, which is when the following lease is dated :

Source : http://185.121.204.173/SearchOnline/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=SAS-EG%2f1%2f1%2f29&pos=2

West Sussex Record Office SAS-EG - Deeds of Thomas Eggar & Sons, and Biddle & Co; 1 - Thomas Eggar & Sons, Solicitors: deeds of Charlwood (Surrey), Henfield, Cowfold, Shermanbury etc.; 1 - Charlwood, Surrey; Catalogue No. SAS-EG/29 ; Title : Counterpart of Lease (indented and chirographed) ; Date 1407 ; Description: By Agnes, sometime the wife of John Oddeworth of Cherlewod, to Thomas Sandre of the same and Joan his wife of all those lands and tenements which she (the lessor) had after the decease of John Oddeworth sometime her husband, situate in the said parish (except) those lands and tenements at Northwod which she held of the prior and convent of Merton by enrolment and according to the custom of their manor of Ewell, co. Surrey, To hold for the life of the said Agnes of the chief lords of those fees &c. Rent to the said Agnes 10s. at 4 terms, so long as Alice, daughter of the said Agnes, should live and if the said Alice should die, the said Agnes surviving, then the said Thomas and Joan should render yearly 6s. 8d. at the aforesaid feasts. Power of distress for rent in arrear. S. Ambrose's day, 8 Hen.IV (7th December 1406); One seal and one other tag

posted by Anonymous Baker
edited by Anonymous Baker
Thanks. I have now filled out the bio.
posted by Michael Cayley
What proof for (i) his alleged father aged 59 at his birth? (ii) his alleged mother, aged 44 at his birth? (iii) his place of birth? (iv) his unusual second name of Alexander? (v) his marriage at age 70? In the absence of proof, shouldn't erroneous data be deleted? And shouldn't this profile be marked as “Unsourced”?
posted by [Living Bethune]
Saunders-279 and Saunders-1269 appear to represent the same person because: It appears that these 2 proifiles are same individual, same parents, siblings and one of the spouses...only concern is the birth year
posted by Katie Pyle
It appears that Saunders-1860 may be the son of Saunders-279....Saunders 279 and Saunders 1269 need to be merged...have same parents and siblings, spouse
posted by Katie Pyle
Can the wives and mother be sorted out? One of his wives is also his mother, and the other is also his daughter-in-law...
Saunders-1861 and Saunders-1269 appear to represent the same person because: Hi, I sent you a private msg, but then read that it was appropriate to send a merge propose request, so this is it! Thanks!
posted by Bonnie Saunders
Saunders-4221 and Saunders-1269 appear to represent the same person because: Hi, I sent you a private msg, but then read that it was appropriate to send a merge propose request, so this is it! Thanks!
posted by Bonnie Saunders
Saunders-1269 and Saunders-279 are not ready to be merged because: The death dates are different. More research needs to be done before these profiles are merged.
posted by [Living Stewart]
Saunders-1860 and Saunders-279 are not ready to be merged because: I did not read the comment on profile page,,,,and there are conflicting fathers as already stated. Changed back to unmerged match.
posted by Katie Pyle
Saunders-1860 and Saunders-279 are not ready to be merged because: Someone needs to reconcile the conflicting fathers.
posted by Sheila Smail

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Categories: Charlwood, Surrey