Geoffrey (Say) de Say (1305 - 1359)

Born 30 Apr 1305 in England [uncertain]

Ancestors

Husband of Maud (Beauchamp) de Say — married about 1328 in England [uncertain]

Descendants

Died 26 Jun 1359 at age 54 in England [uncertain]

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Magna Carta Surety Baron Descendant (see text). Join: Magna Carta Project Discuss: magna_carta

Geoffrey de Say is in a trail badged by the Magna Carta Project to surety barons Geoffrey de Say and Richard de Clare (see text below).

Biography

Geoffrey de Say, Knt., 2nd Lord Say, son and heir of Geoffrey de Say, Knt. and Idoine de Leybourne,^[1] was born 30 April 1305.^[2][3]

He had lands in West Greenwich, Birling, Burham, Cudham, Deptford and Patrixbourne, Kent; Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire; Buxted and Hamsey, Sussex, etc. He was Admiral of the Fleet from the mouth of the Thames westward; Keeper of the Chaces of Surrey, Sussex, Middlesex and Bucks; and Constable of Rochester Castle from 1354-1359.^[2]

He was seventeen when his father died in 1322. John Triple, citizen of London, bought Geoffrey's wardship and marriage from the king on 11 January 1323.^[4] In June 1326 he proved his age^[1] and received seisin of his father's lands. In 1333 he obtained rights in his mother's former dower lands.^[4]

He was a soldier, serving in the Scottish expedition in 1327. He was summoned to parliament in 1333 and attended the Dunstable tournament.^[4] He served overseas in the king's service in 1330/1, 1331/2, 1332/3 and also at Berwick in 1334 and Newcastle in 1335.^[1] He served at Flanders in 1338 and was at Roxborough in January 1356 to witness the Anglo-Scottish treaty.^[4]

Geoffrey Lord Say fought at the battle of Crécy, Ponthieu, on 26 August, 1346. He was a Banneret in the second division which was under the command of the earls of Northampton and Arundel.^[5]

He married Maud de Beauchamp, daughter of Guy de Beauchamp, Knt., 10th Earl of Warwick, and his second wife, Alice de Tony.^[1][2] The date and place of their marriage is unknown. They had three sons and three daughters:

• William, Knt., 3rd Lord Say, born 17 Jun 1340, died before 7 August 1375, married Beatrice de Brewes^[1] and had two children^[2]
• Thomas, Knt., died without issue^[2]
• John, Knt., died testate before 29 September 1410 without issue^[2]
• Idoine, wife of Sir John de Clinton, 3rd Lord Clinton^[2]
• Elizabeth, died before 15 May 1401, wife of Sir Thomas de Aldon^[2]
• Joan, died 29 June 1378, wife of Sir William de Fiennes and of Sir Stephen de Valoines^[2]

Sir Geoffrey de Say, 2nd Baron Say, died testate on 26 June 1359.^[1][2] The wardship and marriage of his son and heir, 19 year-old William, was given to Queen Phillipa.^[4] His widow, Maud, remarried to Edmund ______ and she died testate 28 July 1369, her will requesting burial at the church of the Black Friars, London near "Edmund, my beloved husband".^[2]

Research Notes

Manor of Saye's Court

"William his son succeeded him, and died anno 56 Henry III. holding this manor in capite by barony, and the repair of a house in Dover-castle, called, from its possessors, Saye's-tower. (fn. 10) His son of the same name, accounted at the Exchequer for twenty-seven fees of the honour of Magminot; that is, twenty-six of the old feoffment and one of the new, which shews the large extent of his possessions. He died anno 23 king Edward I. possessed of this manor, leaving Geoffrey his son and heir, (fn. 11) who married Idonea, daughter of William de Leyborne (who survived him) and died possessed of it, in the 15th of king Edward II. leaving Geoffrey de Saye, his son, who, in the 8th of king Edward III. obtained the king's charter for free warren for all his demean lands in his lordships of Greenwich, Deptford, &c. with the view of frankpledge and other privileges, and died in the 33d year of it, leaving William his son and heir, and Maud his wife, surviving, (daughter of Guy de Beauchamp, earl of Warwick) and three daughters, who afterwards became their brother's heirs, as will be further mentioned."^[6]

Sawbridgeworth Manor

"Geoffrey de Say, his son, was summoned to Parliament as Lord Say from 1313. In 1306 he obtained a renewal of the Friday market granted in 1223 and a grant of a yearly fair on the vigil and feast of the Nativity of the Virgin Mary (8 September). (fn. 26) He died in 1322 (fn. 27); his wife Idonia survived him and received a grant of the manor for life from her son Geoffrey. (fn. 28) Geoffrey the younger died in 1359 (fn. 29) and was succeeded by his son William de Say. The extent of the manor taken at his death in 1375 gives a messuage with garden, 500 acres of arable land, 15 acres of meadow, 20 acres of pasture and 100 acres of wood. The rents from customary tenants included 1 lb. of wax and 3 gross of arrows. (fn. 30) John son and heir of William died a minor in 1382. (fn. 31) The manor passed to his sister Elizabeth, who made a settlement on herself and her first husband, Sir John de Falwesle, in 1388, (fn. 32) and on herself and second husband, Sir William Heron, in 1396. (fn. 33)"^[7]

Sources

1. ↑ ^{1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5} Cokayne, George Edward and Geoffrey White ed. Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Vol. XI: Rickerton to Sisonby, 2nd ed. (London, 1949). Online at FamilySearch.org, pages 475-477.
2. ↑ ^{2.00 2.01 2.02 2.03 2.04 2.05 2.06 2.07 2.08 2.09 2.10} Douglas Richardson. Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 4 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. 2nd edition. Salt Lake City, UT: the author, 2011, vol. III, pages 504-507, SAY 5, Geoffrey de Say.
3. ↑ Douglas Richardson. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. Salt Lake City, UT: the author, 2013, vol. IV, pages 570-573, SAY 10.
4. ↑ ^{4.0 4.1 4.2 4.3 4.4} Fleming, Peter. "Say, Geoffrey de, second Lord de Say (1304/5–1359), soldier" in Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. September 23, 2004. Oxford University Press. Accessed online 7 Mar 2020 at ODNB.
5. ↑ Major-General The Hon. George Wrottesley, "Crecy and Calais", Collections for a History of Staffordshire Volume XVIII, The William Salt Archaeological Society, (1897), 31. e-Book Internet Archive (https://archive.org/details/collectionsforhi18stafuoft/page/31/mode/1up : accessed 30 June, 2022).
6. ↑ Edward Hasted, "Parishes: Deptford," in The History and Topographical Survey of the County of Kent, Volume 1 (Canterbury: W Bristow, 1797). British History Online, pages 340-371.
7. ↑ Page, William ed. "Parishes: Sawbridgeworth" in A History of the County of Hertford, volume 3, (London, 1912). British History Online, pages 332-347.

• Richardson, Douglas. Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 4 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. 2nd edition. (Salt Lake City, UT: the author, 2011). See also WikiTree's source page for Magna Carta Ancestry.
• Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. (Salt Lake City, UT: the author, 2013). See also WikiTree's source page for Royal Ancestry.

See also:

• Richardson, Royal Ancestry, (2013), vol. I, pages 290, 334-335; vol. II, page 264; vol. IV, pages 140, 565-568.
• Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, (2011), vol. I, pages 139, 518-519; vol. III, pages 502-503.

Acknowledgments

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Magna Carta Project

This profile was reviewed/approved for the Magna Carta Project by Thiessen-117 20:20, 7 March 2020 (UTC).

Geoffrey de Say is a descendant of Magna Carta Surety Barons Geoffrey de Say and Richard de Clare in badged trails to the following Gateway Ancestors:

• Dorothy Beresford: the trail to Say was badged 7 Mar 2020 and the trail to Clare was badged in 2015 and re-reviewed 7 Mar 2020. See the trails HERE.
• Essex Beville (MCA I:192-196 BEVILLE): both trails were badged in November 2015 and can be viewed HERE.
• Thomas Lunsford (MCA III:84-85 LUNSFORD): badged in Feb 2015. See the trail HERE.

Geoffrey also appears in unbadged trails (needing work) to the following Gateways:

• Kempe Gateways (Richard, Edward, Edmund and Matthew): trail not yet developed and can be viewed HERE.

See Base Camp for more information about Magna Carta trails. See the project's glossary for project-specific terms, such as a "badged trail".