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Unknown Wyatt (abt. 1590 - abt. 1600)

Unknown [uncertain] "Isabel" Wyatt [uncertain]
Born about in Englandmap [uncertain]
Ancestors ancestors
Daughter of [uncertain] and [uncertain]
Died about at about age 10 in Englandmap [uncertain]
Profile last modified | Created 18 Mar 2011
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The Birth Date is a rough estimate. See the text for details.

Contents

Disputed Parents

There is an old belief that the wife of Francis Page was named Isabel Wyatt, daughter of George Wyatt and Jane Finch. However, there is no known primary source documentation to support this, and this lineage is not recognized by leading medieval genealogist Douglas Richardson. Richardson names only the following as the children of George Wyatt and Jane Finch: five sons, Sir Francis, Rev. Hawte, Henry, George, Thomas and one daughter, Eleanor, wife of John Finch.[1][2] See discussion in Research Notes below.

MOST RECENT DATA from 23 Nov 2019 soc.medieval.genealogy post from John Higgins in which he gives information found in The Papers of George Wyatt:[3]

"I’ve recently obtained a copy of “The Papers of George Wyatt” (D. M. Loades, ed. 1968) via inter-library loan. To quickly answer the issue raised in this thread, the book does NOT mention an Isabel among the children of George Wyatt and Ann Finch. Nor does it mention any member of a Page family (the family which the supposed Isabel Wyatt is supposed to have married).
"The book is based on the George Wyatt MSS collection, owned by the Earl of Romney (eventual heir to the Wyatt family) and housed in the British Museum (at least as of 1968). Among other things (notably the writings of George Wyatt), the collection includes various notes and other materials on the Wyatt family collected by Richard Wyatt (d. 1753), the last surviving member of the family. Based on these papers, Loades says that George Wyatt and Anne Finch had (besides five sons) four daughters: 1) an unnamed daughter who probably died young; 2) Catherine (d. 1608); 3) Eleanor (d. 1623), wife of John Finch; 4) Anne (d. 1611).
"The existence of the unnamed elder daughter is inferred by Loades from comments about the other daughters in the Wyatt papers. Anne is described as the “youngest daughter”, and Eleanor as the “third” daughter. So (in Loades’ words) ”presumably there was another [daughter] in addition to Catherine”; i.e., either before or after Catherine. Loades also says that this unnamed daughter “seems to have died in infancy before 1600”, but I can’t see what the basis is for this statement.
"It may be tempting for some eager genealogist to identify this unnamed daughter as Isabel, wife of Francis Page of Bedfont, but I can see no support for this at present."

Biography

George Wyatt and Jane Finch may have daughters not named by Richardson; however, if that daughter had married into a family as well-documented as the Page family, certainly some Wyatt family records would have noted the marriage. Additionally, Francis Page had many descendants who would likely have named her. On that basis, and considering the evidence below, rather than detaching George and Jane as parents, Francis Page was detached as the husband of this "Isabel".

Research Notes

Gen-Medieval Forum

The following discussion has been copied from the gen-medieval forum "Elizabeth Digges ..." 13 October 2013 post from Brad Verity (notes in [brackets] are not included in original message):
"Isabel Wyatt as the mother of Col. John Page persists on various online genealogies, one of the most detailed being the following: FindAGrave #68825033" [NOTE: THIS MEMORIAL HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM FIND A GRAVE - 6 Nov 2019]
"No doubt her name 'Isabel' originated from the brass in St. Mary Church, Bedfont for Isabel Page (d. 1629/30), and it is chronologically impossible for Isabel, the mother of Francis Page of Bedfont (b. about 1595), to have been the daughter of George Wyatt of Boxley Abbey (1553-1624...) and his wife Jane Finch (c.1560-1644...), who were not married until 1582. But could they have had a daughter (named Isabel or not) who married Francis Page of Bedfont, and who was the mother of Col. John Page of Middle Plantation ... and (possibly) mother of Elizabeth, wife of Gov. Edward Digges?
"In both the 2004 (p. 778, sub Wyatt) and 2011 (p. 532, sub Wyatt) editions of Plantagenet Ancestry (Richardson), George Wyatt and Jane Finch are assigned five sons and only one daughter, Eleanor Wyatt (d. 1623), wife of John, Lord Finch: https://books.google.ca/books?id=kjme027UeagC&pg=RA2-PA532#v=onepage&q&f=false.
"But per his bio in ODNB by historian David M. Loades, George Wyatt of Boxley Abbey 'married Jane, the daughter of Sir Thomas Finch of Eastwell; they had five sons and four daughters'.
"Two of these additional daughters died unmarried, Katherine Wyatt (buried 10 May 1608 at All Saints Church, Boxley) and Anne Wyatt (buried 7 September 1611 at All Saints Church, Boxley). Their burial entries have been transcribed at the following website: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/julian.wyatt1/allington.htm [NOTE: link broken, see transcriptions in "History of Boxley Parish" pages 162-163].
"I've not yet uncovered the name & history of the fourth daughter. Prof. Loades also edited 'The Papers of George Wyatt', Royal Historical Society, Camden 4th Series, v (1968). Hopefully he identifies her in that work, which I will try and track down. It's very unlikely that the daughter was the wife of Francis Page of Bedfont, but it's necessary to determine who she was before we can completely put the myth to rest." [Bold type added]

"Magna Carta Sureties"

Weis, in Magna Carta Sureties gives two lines naming a Wyatt family member [#72 (George, Francis and Hawte) and 134 (Jane Wyatt who m. Scott)] and makes no mention of George and Jane's children except for sons Hawte and Francis.[4] Note: Page is only mentioned in line 48, Elizabeth, dau. of Col. John Page, m. Gov Edward Digges (est date c. 1640-50).

"Plantagenet Ancestry"

Faris, in Plantagenet Ancestry states that George and Jane had "four sons and two daughters", but specifically names three children: Francis, Hawte and Eleanor (also names spouses of all 3, but children are listed for Hawte only, and "descendants in England" for Francis).[5]

"Page Genealogy"

The Page Genealogy (1893) begins with John Page, son of Francis Page. No mother for John is named (on first review/search). A search for Francis found references to Francis, John's father (including his death/burial place, arms, ancestors [see page 37, which states Francis' father was JOHN and mother ISABEL____]) and several references to his son, Capt. Francis Page, who married Mary Diggs. A search for Isabel/Isabelle had only one result (the possible mother of Francis already mentioned) and there were no results in a search for Wyatt/Wyat/Wiat/Wiatt.[6] Perhaps Francis' mother/wife's names were conflated?

"The History of Boxley Parish"

The History of Boxley Parish has no mention of Isabel as a daughter of George Wiat, although sons Sir Francis, Hawt and daughter Eleanora (married John Finch) are named.[7] A search through the parish records in this book revealed burial records for George's daughters Katherine and Anne, but nothing about Isabel.

Francis Page Burial

"The Village and Church of Bedfont, Co. Middlesex" tells us that Francis Page died (or was buried) 13 October 1678, aged 84, and was buried at Bedfont, in Harrow. A monument to his memory was on the chancel floor from 1678 until 1865, when it was removed to the churchyard. His son, Col. John Page was the ancestor of the Page family in America. No mention of his wife was made in this article.[8]

Sources

  1. Richardson, Douglas. Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 4 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. 2nd edition. (Salt Lake City: the author, 2011). Vol. IV, page 373, WYATT 16.
  2. Richardson, Douglas. Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study In Colonial And Medieval Families, 3 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. 2nd edition. (Salt Lake City: the author, 2011). Vol. I, page 532, WYATT 19.
  3. Loades, David M. The Papers of George Wyatt Esquire, of Boxley Abbey. (Royal Historical Society, 1968). Not available online.
  4. Weis, Frederick Lewis, and Walter Lee Sheppard. The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215. (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Pub. Co., 1999). Online at Ancestry.com.
  5. Faris, David. Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century Colonists. (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., 1996), online at Ancestry.com, pages 288-289.
  6. Page, Richard Channing Moore. Genealogy of the Page family in Virginia. (New York: Publishers' Print. Co., 1893), online at Archive.org, pages 9-10, 34, 36, 37.
  7. Cave-Browne, John. The History of Boxley Parish. (Maidstone: E. J. Dickinson, 1892), online at Archive.org, page 118.
  8. Ebblewhite, Ernest Arthur, Esq. "The Village and Church of Bedfont, Co. Middlesex" in the Journal of the British Archaeological Association. Vol. 49. (London, British Archaeological Association, 1893). Online at Archive.org, pages 125-128: burial of/monument to Francis Page, some descendants/ancestors named (no mention of wife in this article).
See also:
  • Loades, David. "Wyatt, George (1553–1624), landowner and writer" in Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. May 24, 2008. Oxford University Press. Accessed online 8 Nov 2019 at OxfordDNB.com (with subscription).




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Comments: 11

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Following extensive searches, comments on this profile and a G2G post, there do not seem to be any legitimate sources to support the data and relationships shown on this profile (see research notes).

I plan to detach her husband and children, leaving research notes on each of their profiles. I also plan to add the "Uncertain Existence" template to Isabel's profile.

If appropriate sources are found in the future, the disconnected profiles can easily be re-attached and the template removed.

Again, if anyone can provide reliable sources for Isabel and her family, this would be very welcome.

posted by Traci Thiessen
Instead of removing her parents, should she instead be disconnected as the wife of Francis Page? There is no proof that this person ever existed and no evidence of the marriage. See https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/937677/isabel-wyatt-page and the many research notes in the bio.
posted by Traci Thiessen
Could we remove George and Jane as Isabel's parents until there is proof connecting them? This was suggested in 2015 and apprently never done. Thanks!
posted by Traci Thiessen
Hi Profile Managers, thank you for your care for Isabel Wyatt Page's profile. The England Project would like to take on management of her profile as it is project protected and contentious. I am adding the England project box today and will send you a trusted list request to add me to the trusted list for the profile. We invite you to join the project and continue to contribute your expertise about her and her family. Please get back to me if you have any questions about this. Regards, Gillian, Leader England Project.
posted by Gillian Thomas
If Isabel was married twice and had eight children as listed her death date is suspect.
posted by Jack Wise
Wyatt-1299 and Wyatt-373 appear to represent the same person because: Same parents and same husband. There are problems with birth and death years, which in both cases are just guesses. (And furthermore, there doesn't seem to be any primary source evidence that this person existed!)
posted by [Living Schmeeckle]
If nobody objects, I will detach Isabel Page as the daughter of George Wyatt, per G2G discussion.
posted by [Living Schmeeckle]
Wyatt-373 and Wyatt-1541 appear to represent the same person because: Same name, same son
posted by Bob Tonsmeire
I would suspect the date of death and/or date of marriage since her profile lists seven children born within two years from 1627 marriage to 1629 death, three of whom were born before her listed marriage. Needs further research.
posted by Jack Wise
Current data on this profile shows her death in 1629 yet a child being born as late as 1639.
posted by Bob Tonsmeire

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