Guillaume (Ponthieu) de Ponthieu

Born [date unknown] in Alençon, Orne, Basse-Normandie, France

Ancestors

Descendants

Died 30 Jun 1171 in Alençon, Orne, Basse-Normandie, France

Biography

Guillaume "Talvas (the Shield)" de Ponthieu was the son of Agnès de Ponthieu and her husband, Robert de Bellême, earl of Shrewsbury and count of Ponthieu, the second but oldest surviving son of Roger de Montgomery, vicomte of the Hièmois in Lower Normandy and earl of Shrewsbury.^[1] Agnes was the older daughter of Gui, count of Ponthieu.^[1]

Guillaume's brother, Andrew, attested to one of his brother's acts, but his mother is unknown,^[1] although Cawley says he was also Agnes' son.^[2]

Guillaume's father ceased to use the title count of Ponthieu in 1105 or 1106, probably on the death of his wife,^[1] at which time Guillaume became Comte de Ponthieu, although Cawley says he succeeded his father.^[2]

Guillaume married in late 1112/1115, as her second husband, Helie (Ela^[3]) de Bourgogne (of Burgundy), widow of Bertrand de Toulouse Count of Tripoli, daughter of Eudes I (Odo Borel^[3]), Duke of Burgundy [Capet] & his wife Sibylle de Bourgogne [Comté] ([1080]-28 Feb 1141). The Gesta Normannorum Ducum says that they had five children, three sons and two daughters, Europäische Stammtafeln says they had eleven,^[4] Cawley's Medieval Lands says they had nine, and he had three children by a previous wife:^[2]

1. Clemence de Ponthieu, died before 1189, married Juhel, son of Gauthier (Walter) of Mayenne, married before 12 July 1128 by which date they had a son Gaufrido primogenito;
2. Mabel de Ponthieu, who may not have been Ela's daughter as she was described as his daughter, not as one of their children;
3. Philippa de Ponthieu;
4. Guy II de Ponthieu, died in 1147 predeceasing his father, became Comte de Ponthieu before 1129;
5. Guillaume de Ponthieu, Comte de Alençon in 1166;
6. Robert de Ponthieu;
7. Robert de Garennes, a monk by 1147;
8. Guillaume de Ponthieu;
9. Enguerrand de Ponthieu;
10. Enguerrand de Ponthieu;
11. Jean I de Ponthieu, Count of Alençon in 1141, married Beatrix du Maine aka d'Anjou, daughter of Helie d"Anjou aka Elias II, Count of Maine, and Philippa du Perche, daughter of Rotrou III, Count of Perche;
12. Adela (aka Ela) de Ponthieu, died 4 October 1174, married 1) William III de Warenne, third Earl of Surrey, who took the cross and died on 19 January 1148 at Laodicea,^[3] oldest child of William II de Warenne and his wife, Isabel de Vermandois, and 2) Patrick of Salisbury, first earl of Salisbury [earl of Wiltshire], younger son of Walter of Salisbury and his wife, Sibyl de Sourches;^[5]

Cawley speculates that Guillaume had a first wife who was the mother of some of Guillaume's children based on:

• Ela's age, as her first marriage contract was dated June 1095, he speculates she was born in 1080 and gave birth to a son Pons de Touslouse speculatively born in 1096;^[2]
• Ela's first husband Bertrand de Toulouse died in April 1112;^[2]
• Guillaume's daughter Clemence having a son Gaufrido primogenito (therefore not her only child) by July 1128.^[2]

Could Ela have borne 12 children to her second husband if they married after 1112 and she was born in 1080? It is biologically possible for a women to continue giving birth into her late 40s, so Ela could have had 12 children with her second husband.

The earliest a child of Guillaume and Ela's marriage could be born would be about January 1113, could that child have had two children by July 1128 when she was aged 15? It is biologically possible for Clemence to have had two children by the age of 15.

He resigned Ponthieu before 1129 in favour of his son Guy^[2] (Wido).

"Gulielmus comes Pontivorum" donated property to the abbey of Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte for the souls of "his predecessors earl Roger and Mabel his wife, count Guy and Adda his wife, his father Robert de Belesmo and his mother Agnes and…Ela his wife and of their sons two of them called Robert and two William and two Enguerrand and Mabel his daughter" by charter dated 1127.^[2]

Sources

1. ↑ ^{1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3} Kathleen Thompson, ‘Bellême, Robert de, earl of Shrewsbury and count of Ponthieu (bap. c.1057, d. in or after 1130)’, Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, 2004 ([http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/2042, accessed 6 April 2016).
2. ↑ ^{2.0 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.7} Charles Cawley, "Northern France, Nobility: COMTES de PONTHIEU (BELLÊME-MONTGOMMERY)", Medieval Lands, Charles Cawley & Foundation for Medieval Genealogy, V 3.4: 1 February 2016, (http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm#GuillaumeIPonthieudied1171B " accessed 6 April 2016).
3. ↑ ^{3.0 3.1 3.2} Victoria Chandler, ‘Warenne, William (III) de, third earl of Surrey (c.1119–1148)’, Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, 2004 (http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/28738, accessed 6 April 2016).
4. ↑ Wikipedia: William III, Count of Ponthieu, accessed 6 April 2016.
5. ↑ Emilie Amt, ‘Salisbury, Patrick of, first earl of Salisbury (d. 1168)’, Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, 2004 (http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/47252, accessed 6 April 2016).

See also:

• The Visitation of the county of Warwick in the year 1619: Taken By William Camden, College of Arms (Great Britain).
• The Baronettage of England: Being an Historical and Genealogical Account of Baronets, From their first Institution in the Reign of King James I. Volume 1, By Arthur Collins. Printed for W. Taylor, at the Ship in Pater-Noster Row; R. Gosling, at the Middle-Temple-Gate in Fleet-Street; and J. Osborn, at the Oxford-Arms in Lombard-Street. 1720.
• Yeatman, John Pym. The Early Genealogical History of the House of Arundel (Mitchell and Hughes, London, 1882) Page 8: "William de Talvace, Count of Ponthieu"