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Ralph Allen Sr (abt. 1617 - abt. 1698)

Ralph Allen Sr [uncertain]
Born about in Englandmap
Husband of — married before 1642 in Weymouth or Sandwich, Province of Massachusetts Baymap [uncertain]
Descendants descendants
Died about at about age 81 in Sandwich, Barnstable, Massachusettsmap
Profile last modified | Created 13 Dec 2010
This page has been accessed 9,419 times.
The Puritan Great Migration.
Ralph Allen Sr migrated to New England during the Puritan Great Migration (1621-1640).
Join: Puritan Great Migration Project
Discuss: pgm

Contents

The Two Ralph Allens of Sandwich

The following includes the conclusions of Robert Charles Anderson in his Great Migration series concerning the following individuals:

  • Ralph Allen "junior" (not this profile), a mason; married Esther Swift, a daughter of William Swift and his second wife Joan (Unknown) Swift; this Ralph died in the fall of 1659. Anderson suggests that he was related to immigrant George Allen; there have been claims that the two were brothers, but the Allen DNA Patrilineage 2 Project concludes that they were of different generations[1]. Ralph and his wife's children, all born at Sandwich, were:
    • Jedediah
    • Hester
    • Experience
    • Ephraim
  • Ralph Allen "senior" (this profile) a wheelwright; son of immigrant George; m. Susannah _____. He wrote a Will dated 18 December 1691, which was probated before the Barnstable County Court on 1 July 1698. The inventory of his estate was taken on 19 March 1697/1698 making bequests to his children:
    • John
    • Joseph
    • Increase
    • Ebenezer
    • Zachariah
    • Patience

The will also mentions his "brother William", who was a known son of George Allen.

The Ralph Allen of this profile died during the month of March 1697/1698 at Sandwich, by then Barnstable County, Massachusetts and was buried, as directed by his Will, "in the Friends Burying place at William Allen's in Sandwich."

Note also the existence of a third Ralph Allen – formerly (and incorrectly) linked above as Ralph Allen, "junior" – who married a wife named Hester English in London in 1619. The presence of a third Ralph Allen at Sandwich in this time period is questionable at best; his profile to date (Jan. 2023) connects him, as a likely son, with John Allen of Saltford, Somerset, England. The introduction of this Allen family into the Sandwich picture is largely undercut by experienced Allen researcher (and descendant of the Ralph Allen of this profile) Jack MacDonald in a paper that is linked and downloadable from the website of the Allen DNA Patrilineage 2 Project[2].

Biography of Ralph Allen Sr

Ralph was a Friend (Quaker)

Ralph Allen was born about 1615 in England. He is not listed with his father's family on the passenger list of the “Mary Gould”, the ship on which the family emigrated to New England in 1635. This could be a simple error in the list, and does not mean that Ralph came earlier, or later, than his family. He was a wheelwright, according to available deeds. He was also called a “planter”; plantation was the term used for colonization, and a planter is one who came to “plant” a new colony, as described in “Planters of the Commonwealth”, by Charles Edward Banks.

He was probably the Ralph Allen in Boston on 4 June 1639, when he was fined 10 pounds for releasing a servant before the expiration of his time (see "Massachusetts Bay Record Colony Court Records," 2:84). He lived in Rehoboth, where he received land in the division of New Meadows in February 1646/1647.

Ralph eventually followed his father and siblings, and settled at Sandwich, in what was first called New Plymouth Colony. Quakerism was spreading throughout the Colony, and in 1657 Ralph and six of his brothers and sisters were apparently among the first to "see the light." Unfortunately, the adoption of Quakerism by the Allen's resulted in their being persecuted and fined for many years for practicing their faith. Their persecution was particularly acute for refusing to take the Oath of Fidelity which they felt was unlawful. In 1658, he was deprived of his vote in the Sandwich town meeting, and in 1658 and 1659 he had 78 pounds of goods taken from him for refusing to swear to oaths and for attending the Friends Meeting. He was jailed in Boston in 1661.

He showed interest in the settlement of Dartmouth, a town founded in the western part of New Plymouth (now within Bristol county), where the Quakers were allowed to worship in peace. He bought one and one-half shares in the Dartmouth purchase in 1663 from Constant Southworth and Alice Bradford. In 1664, he contracted on behalf of all the purchasers with George Badcock and Henry Tucker to build a gristmill in Dartmouth. On 5 July 1669, he was granted to keep a ferry at or near Pocasset to provide passage to Rhode Island. In 1672, he bought one-half share in Dartmouth from Sarah Warren.

Even though he was living at Sandwich at the time of his death, the fact that he was listed as being "of Dartmouth" in some deeds implies that he and Susannah resided at Dartmouth for a few years. He returned to Sandwich and was chosen surveyor of highways in May 1671 and again in May 1680.

'Ralph Allen died during the month of March 1697/98 at Sandwich, by then Barnstable County, Massachusetts and was buried, as directed by his Will, "in the Friends Burying place at William Allen's in Sandwich."

Ralph Allen wrote his Will on 18 December 1691, which was probated before the Barnstable County Court on 1 July 1698. The inventory of his estate was taken on 19 March 1697/1698.[3]

In his Will, Ralph, mentions John, Joseph, Increase, Ebenezer, and Zachariah, daughter Patience, and "brother William" (a known son of George Allen). Ralph desired that his body should be placed in the Friends' burying place at William Allen's in Sandwich.

William in his Will dated 17 February 1698, leaves his nephew Daniel, son of brother George, his housing, lands, etc., "he to allow testator's wife Priscilla competent maintenance for life." Francis in his Will dated 18 February 1696 mentions his daughter Abiah and her husband Zachariah Jenkins, and other daughters Dinah, Rachel, Abigail, Hannah, and Rebecca.

Research Notes

Ralph Allen sold thirty acres of land at Weymouth, 22 acres of which originally belonged to George Allen. He was at Rehoboth where he received a division of the New Meadow in February 1646/1647. Since Ralph Jr’s son was born in Sandwich in January 1646/1647, the Ralph in Weymouth and Rehoboth must have been Ralph Sr. He moved from Rehoboth to Sandwich; when he died in 1698, he was referred to as Ralph Sr in the burial record. He left a Will naming all of his children; no Jedediah, no Experience, and no Ephraim were named, further proving that he was not Ralph Jr.

Ralph Sr had a daughter named Mary, who died young in 1675. He was referred to as Ralph, Sr. in Mary’s burial record. He was also referred to in other records as being a planter (see the definition above) and wheelwright by trade. In his will he also mentions a brother William, who is a known son of George Allen.

Although the suffix Sr. and Jr. were found in a number of cases in the records involving the two Ralphs, the definitive use of the suffix Sr. was with the Ralph Allen who was a wheelwright, and who died in 1698.

Ralph Jr, a mason by trade, married to Esther Swift, and father of Jedediah, may very well be related to George Allen somehow, but was not his son. However, He could easily be a nephew or a cousin.

"Early New England Families 1641-1700”, vol. Wing, pages 2&3, has a record of the marriage of a Ralph Allen to Hester English from St. Mary le Bow, London in 1619. This Ralph was probably born about 1595 and was too old to be the Ralph Allen who married Esther Swift by 1646 in Sandwich, Massachusetts, the daughter of William Swift and Widow, Joan Dimbleby. William and Joan were married by 1620 in England and were the parents of Esther and William, Jr. Joan died in Sandwich on 31 January 1664. William, Sr. by his first wife had a daughter Hannah Swift, who married on 5 September 1642, in Sandwich, to Daniel Wing (1616-1698).

Summary: A discussion of Ralphs' in George Allen sketch by Robert C Anderson:[4]

  • Two Ralphs residing in Sandwich.
  • 4 March 1650/1651 Anthony Wright sued Ralph Allen Jr. [PCR 7:52, 54}
  • 4 August 1651 Warrant to appear for Ralph Allen Senior re: misdemeanors {PCR 2: 171]
  • 7 June 1659 Ralph Allin Senior summoned for refusing to take the oath of fidelity.[PCR 3:168]. 1659 through 1660 Ralph Allen (no designation) again in similar circumstances. One died.
  • 14 March 1651 Experience d/o Ralphe Allin mason b. Sandwich.
  • 3 January 1646 Jediah allen s/o Ralph b. Sandwich
  • 20 March 1656 Epherim Allin s/o Ralph b. Sandwich
  • 12 October 1662 Jone Swift of Sandwich, widow of William, will left to grandchild Experience Allen and to Jedediah Allen and Experience Allen
  • So Ralph Allen, mason, married ____ Swift and had children Jedidiah, Experience and Ephraim died in or about late 1659.
  • 1663 a couple of Sales to Ralph Allin of Sandwich, wheelwright,
  • 18 December 1691 the Will of Ralph Allin of Sandwich, left to children: John, Joseph, Increase, Ebenezer, Zachariah and Patience. Also named his brother William. So this Ralph who lived past 1659, was son of George.
  • Exceptions after 1659 to a jr/sr designation
  • 5 June 1671 Ralph Allin Sr surveyor of highways.
  • 18 April 1675 Meary Allen d/o Ralph Allen Sr. buried at Sandwich.
  • Summary:
  • Ralph Allen Sr a wheelwright s/o George, died in the 1690
  • Ralph Allen Jr a mason, died about 1659
  • Ralph Allen Sr., son of George b. c. 1617
  • Ralph Allen Jr was younger, some accounts of this Ralph give him an earlier wife than ____Swift. It has been suggested that the marriage of Ralph Allen and Hester English in 1619 was this first marriage of Ralph Allen Jr., but since he's the younger and would have been born after 1617 and cannot possibly be the groom married in 1619. And earlier children should not be ascribed to him.
  • A subsequent article by Richard LeBaron Bowen Jr. Bowen, [5] gives an alternate explanation for the fact that the references in 1659 and 1660 for Ralph not mentioning a jr/sr designation could be that the court's knew quite well which Ralph was refusing to sign the oath and did not need to make such a designation, implying that Ralph Jr was living after 1659 and into 1671 and 1675 when the later references to Ralph Sr. were made. He does not however put forth any more information to support a death for Ralph Jr.
Marriage: Look in these Sources for evidence of Marriage to Esther Swift:

"ALLEN, Ralph1 & 2/wf Esther [SWIFT]; by 1646(/7?); Sandwich {MD 14:109, 166, 16:21; Allen (,2) 24; Allen (,16) 27; Noyes-Gilman 371; Cornell 314; Crapo 182; Gen. Adv. 3:35, 74; Swift 18; Sv. 1:35; Austin: GDRI 73; Cape Cod Lib. 15:18; Reg. 25:144}"[6]

Our unending gratitude is extended to Jack MacDonald for having already performed all this research that helped sort out the two Ralphs of Sandwich. While the link to Jack MacDonald's rootsweb page formerly cited here is dead, a draft of his extensive paper on the Allens of Sandwich is available via the website of the ALLEN DNA Patrilineage 2 Project, overseen by John B. Robb: see http://www.johnbrobb.com/JBR-ALLEN-R.htm ; search on "a paper by Jack MacDonald", without quotes.

Sources

  1. The ALLEN DNA Patrilineage 2 Project, overseen by John B. Robb; http://www.johnbrobb.com/JBR-ALLEN-R.htm [search on "Ralph1 was a generation younger", without quotes]
  2. The ALLEN DNA Patrilineage 2 Project, as above; http://www.johnbrobb.com/JBR-ALLEN-R.htm [search on "a paper by Jack MacDonald", without quotes]
  3. "Probate records v. 1-3 1686-1747" database with images, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9YB-N9P6 : 22 April 2024), Film# 00770540, Barnstable, Massachusetts, image 114-115, Vol 2, Page 75-76.
  4. Great Migration 1634-1635, A-B. (Online database. AmericanAncestors.org. New England Historic Genealogical Society, 2008.) Originally published as: The Great Migration, Immigrants to New England, 1634-1635, Volume 1, A-B, by Robert Charles Anderson, George F. Sanborn, Jr., and Melinde Lutz Sanborn. Boston: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1999. https://www.americanancestors.org/DB114/i/7051/32/22074634
  5. Richard LeBaron. "Notes on George Allen of Weymouth and Sandwich." NEHGR 155: 212 (2001) Link at AmericanAncestors ($)
  6. New England Marriages to 1700. (Online database. AmericanAncestors.org. New England Historic Genealogical Society, 2008.) Originally published as: New England Marriages Prior to 1700. Boston, Massachusetts, New England Historic Genealogical Society, 2015. https://www.americanancestors.org/DB1568/i/21174/25/426874575

See also:

  • "12 Generations of Decent from George Allen and his Wife Catherine" compiled by Nellie Bethune Allen in 1967

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Comments: 50

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In the section on "The Two Ralph Allens", the link that is supposed to lead to "Ralph Allen, 'junior', and mason" does not currently lead to the mason, but to yet another Ralph Allen-2292, who married Hester English at London in 1619. No location is given in the data fields for this Ralph's birth beyond "England", and none at all is given for his death – but in the narrative Biography, he is said to have been born at Weymouth, Dorset... and it is then claimed that his wife "is said to be the Hester Allen who died on 15 Jun 1640 in Sandwich", but no death location is given for her Ralph. These waters at present are very muddy.

I intend to edit that so the "Two Ralph Allens" link leads correctly to Allen-43736, the Ralph who was indeed the mason, and who married Esther Swift about 1645 at Sandwich.

I will also draft an additional disambiguation note that distinguishes both wheelwright and mason from Allen 2292, Ralph #3.

Please let me know of any concerns.

posted by Christopher Childs
Most likely "Mary Gould" according to https://www.packrat-pro.com/ships/unnamed.htm How could the "Mary Gould" that departed from Weymouth heading to New England on the 30th March 1635 be the same ship that departed from Weymouth on the 20th of March that same year? The journey took a little over a month?
posted by Melissa McLaughlin
As the profile says, the name of this Ralph Allen is not found amongst the passengers of the "Mary Gould" or of the Un-named ship that is BELIEVED but NOT PROVED to be the "Mary Gould". However, the names of his father George and other family members are found. The simplest explanation is that these "passenger lists" are almost never complete nor completely accurate and this is something you should definitely understand about sites like packratpro and olivetree that list passengers on ships.

Many and maybe most of these records are assembled after the fact by people researching travelers and the lists come sometimes from court depositions where people say who they were on the ship with, from church records when most people in a church seemed to travel together etc. Those sites also allow current users like you and I to make changes to the lists, and they freely admit that they do not vet those changes. So, you should always read them with a grain of salt.

Second, when there are actual original lists (or partial lists) of travelers, they can be from things like certificates of conformity, paperwork of "intent to travel" etc. Sometimes people were listed aboard ships days or weeks before the ships actually departed the dock. So the fact that the "Mary Gould" web page says it departed on 30 March 1635/36 and the "Un-named" says it departed "about 20 March 1635/36" is not a significant difference. These are probably viewed as "likely the same ship" because there is probably not a record of another vessel aside from the "Mary Gould" departing around Weymouth in late March of that year so it's a pretty reasonable guess.

Lastly and just FYI, the trip "uphill" i.e. against most prevailing currents and winds from England to New England was typically up to 3 months, the trip back "downhill" to England closer to a month.

posted by Brad Stauf
edited by Brad Stauf
I was basing the little over a month because of the arrival date that was listed as May 1635. Is that date wrong?
posted by Melissa McLaughlin
I didn't notice an arrival date for the "Mary Gould", where did you see that? In any case, if it left in late March then a May arrival should have been possible if they made good time. But the point about exactly what day it left vs what day a particular passenger registered their intent to travel or filled out other paperwork still stands.

Also noting what Bryan said about the research of Phyllis Hughes in another comment, it seems that it may well be that these were two different ships but unfortunately we still can't say for certain when Ralph Allen traveled.

posted by Brad Stauf
edited by Brad Stauf
Yeah, i agree. Neither of the two Ralphs were apparently on board the "Hull Company" ship that brought his father, step-mother, and brothers to Boston Harbor on May 6, 1635. As noted in the Bio, this Ralph (son of George) *might* have been left off the passenger list, but I doubt it. My sense is he followed them over sometime later, but that's just a hunch and without evidence.

Just to add more confusion to this already-tangled web, before 1752 the New Year began on March 25, so if the Hull Company ship left Weymouth on Mar 20, it would have been 1634 by their calendar; if it was Mar 30, it would have been 1635. At least in England :)

posted by Bryan McCullagh
edited by Bryan McCullagh
Melissa, I saw the comment you deleted about the difficulty in keeping these families correct that you've seen on other sites. Your comment is 100% valid and of course even on WikiTree we sometimes get it wrong and have to untangle families. As Marcia responded, genealogy seems to work best when people collaborate and focus on improving the data and the analysis vs. digging in their heels and saying "mine is right". Especially when it's a shared, global tree like WT uses, there is no room for "you have your tree and I'll have my tree and we will just disagree".

For PGM profiles we have standards that encourage a complete but (hopefully) fairly simple to read profile. We don't always get it right and since WT is so open, people sometimes edit profiles with good intentions but less-than-good results and then somebody else has to carve out time to clean up, re-format and organize, properly source etc etc that profile. Always more work than hands available and of course "simple but complete" is pretty subjective so sometimes folks just disagree on that definition.

If you have suggested changes to improve profiles and make them easier to understand and use, that is absolutely always welcome. A good way to do that is through comments so that other folks can weigh in if desired and then after a few days to let that happen, making appropriate edits. Hopefully this guidance helps.

posted by Brad Stauf
We strongly suspect the ship was not the Mary Gould. Allen researcher Phyllis J. Hughes claims she discovered the name of the ship in 2013 and was going to publish it in an upcoming book, but that doesn't seem to have happened. An in-person visit to the England National Archives in Kew may be fruitful.
posted by Bryan McCullagh
I saw one note that it was "Blessing" but that note was unsourced.
posted by Melissa McLaughlin
Yes! I've heard that theory as well, but until we find definitive proof/sourcing, this may remain a mystery known only to a few. I am sure the evidence is out there somewhere; Phyllis wouldn't have made that claim unless she knew almost for sure.
posted by Bryan McCullagh
Bryan, I saw a track of some of that correspondence here https://www.immigrantships.net/v3/1600v3/hullcompany16350320.html.

I guess nothing further came of her research? Do you know if Ms. Hughes is still active in the Hull Family Association or elsewhere?

posted by Brad Stauf
Sorry, I haven't heard from Phyllis since around 2013. I was in direct email correspondence with her regarding another matter, but was aware of her post which you referenced above. I coyly tried to pry out of her the name of the ship at that time, but she insisted her book was still forthcoming. Kinda wish she'd do us all a favor and spill the beans.

Failing that, a key clue in her correspondence is: "Several years ago I was able to discover (from research I contracted at the London Public Records office) the name of the ship on which the Rev. Joseph Hull and his colony came to America". The bulk of these records were moved from London to Kew in 2003.

posted by Bryan McCullagh
edited by Bryan McCullagh
That's too bad, hopefully she is still alive & well. It sounds like we still would not know for sure about Ralph Allen's immigration details, but it would be nice to have accurate history on the ship identification.
posted by Brad Stauf
[Comment Deleted]
posted by Melissa McLaughlin
edited by Melissa McLaughlin
deleted by Melissa McLaughlin
Melissa, thanks for your interest in these profiles. Mary is already attached as the daughter of Ralph and her death/burial is sourced on her profile. Was there something else you felt should be added? Regarding the image of the burial record that you uploaded, is this OK to upload per copyright restrictions? familysearch and ancestry.com do allow image uploads if properly attributed but I didn't see anything about where the image came from. WikiTree standards are to state how we know that uploading an image doesn't violate copyright. Thanks!
posted by Brad Stauf
No, when I was reading it I missed it and saw it after my post, should have deleted my post.
posted by Melissa McLaughlin
I am knew to this sight. I am trying to figure out where exactly I add the details of where the image came from.
posted by Melissa McLaughlin
Because this is a project protected profile you should contact the PGM project before making any edits. Just send us a message explaining exactly what you think should be changed and what sources you're basing that on and someone will discuss those changes with you. I went through the same process with one of my ancestors before I joined the project. It's usually pretty straightforward. Looking forward to hearing from you.
In the future, I will send the location of the source and image to the PGM. Thank you for letting me know. I just love how quickly you all respond.
posted by Melissa McLaughlin
Excellent! We aim to please! :)
Melissa, when you uploaded the picture there was a box where you put the description "Massachusetts, Town Clerk, Vital and Town Records, 1626-2001". This is where you put information such as proper attribution i.e. where it came from and how you are sure you are allowed to post it without violating copyright. You can still click on the picture and edit your original comment adding in where the picture came from. Thanks!
posted by Brad Stauf
The Great Migration, p. 33-34 and The Two Ralph Allens of Sandwich, MA, in the 1600s, dtd June 27, 1997

Why do these publications supersede earlier publication?

I want to attempt to write this in the simplest and shortest form possible to make it easier to understand.

1. Births recorded in Sandwich of: Jediah Allen, son of Ralphe Allen" the 3d of Jan 1646[/7] (Kardell, 1:16). Experience - Experience "the daughter of Ralphe Allin mason," b. 14 Mar 1651[/2?] Ephraim "the son of Ralfe Allin," b. 26 Mar 1656 (Kardell, 1:12).

The record of Experience proves her father is the mason.

2. The will of Esther Swift's mother dated 12 Oct 1662 "I give unto my grandchild Experience Allen, a chest with drawers and my Bible.....[with Hannah Swift], all my linen and my pewter, to be equally divided between them. ... I give unto Jedediah Allen and Experience Allen the third part of my Estate, this house and garden being part of the third."

This record proves Experience and Jedediah are siblings and that Esther was married to Ralph, the mason.

4. Bible of Jedediah Allen and Year Sandwich stopped distinguishing the two Ralph's in records Ralph's death is listed as the 26th of ___ The death of his mother in law is listed directly underneath and as the 26th of ____. (the page was torn and the years are missing).

The order of death is inferred from the order in which the entries are made. We can estimate the death of Ralph, mason using the will Joan Swift and the dates when Ralph Allen with Jr/mason disappers from Sandwich Sandwich records. This puts Ralph's death between 26 Jun 1659-26 Sep1659. The name Ralph Sr. and Ralph, wheelwright appears in at least 4 records after the death of Joan Swift. Proving that Ralph Sr., not Ralph Jr. is the son of George Allen. See 3. 18 December 1691 below.

3. Sons of George Allen, the Immigrant, from his 1st wife

Land - Prior to 1648 show that one Ralph lived in Sandwich and the other Ralph transferred from Newport, RI to Weymouth. We know from 1 & 2 above that Ralph the mason was the one in Sandwich.

The records in Rhode Island and Weymouth link the Ralph, the wheelwright, as the son of George, the Immigrant. John, Robert, George along with this Ralph were all living in Weymouth prior to 1648. The land conveyances were all for land originally owned by their father, George Allen..

Court - Robert, Ralph and George all became Quakers and are named in Court records. Any oath being against Quaker principles, the men were repeatedly charged by the government for adherence to their faith. In many of these court records Ralph is referred to as Ralph Sr. JK had attributed some of these court records to Ralph the mason, but, there are similar court records well after the death of Ralph Jr. the mason.

10 June 1661, court records prove Robert and John Allen are brothers.

17 Feb 1697/8, Will of William Allen names George, above as his brother.

18 December 1691, Will of Ralph Allen, wheelwright, names children: John, Joseph, Increase, Ebenezer, Zachariah, Patience; Overseers: brother, William Allen and Edward Perry.

William is the son of George and Katherine. The two wills above prove George in Sandwich and George the father of John, Robert, George and Ralph are the same man.

This also proves that Ralph Sr. died in after 1691 and that his wife is Susanna, not Esther Swift as some have previously concluded. Source for given name of Susanna - "The Genealogical Magazine of New Jersey", 16 [1941]: 7 by Carroll Gardner citing Sandwich Quarterly Records of Friends, 40:25 and 60-68, showing Ralph Allen and Susanna Allen as witnesses to marriages in 1676 and 1685. Analysis of other Allen names in separate lists of men and women witnesses indicates that, when the known wives are paired with their husband, in all cases Ralph and Susanna are left, indicating that they were married.

posted by Melissa McLaughlin
edited by Melissa McLaughlin
Thank you, Melissa! I've added a few maintenance categories to it. Someone will be looking into it in the near future. I may work on it myself later today as Family Search is undergoing maintenance right now.

I noticed you've attached a picture of a document. Did you take the picture yourself?

no I did not, Brad Stauf has brought this to my attention. I am new here. I added where it came from in the title. Is that enough? Or do I need to delete the image?
posted by Melissa McLaughlin
Hello again, Melissa! If you're new here, Welcome to WikiTree!

You need to include where the image came from. It looks to me like a FamilySearch image, so I'd include the credit (where it came from: Ancestry, FamilySearch) and ideally the citation, so anyone can find it if they need to.

Melissa, a lot of what is in your comment is already on the profile. Can you summarize what you think is wrong or should be changed? Do you believe that there was only one Ralph Allen instead of two, or that the list of children is not correct? Thanks for clarifying.
posted by Brad Stauf
I do not think anything is wrong or should be changed. I am trying to make it easier for beginers to understand. There is still much confusion in Ancestry and other online trees regarding this family. I maintain my family history on familysearch. I desc. from Ralph the mason. I (and others) am constantly having to message people and undo their changes to the tree. Because of the confusion, people are repeatedly going onto the tree and changing George's wife to Katherine Stark, changing the name of Esther Swift to Esther Susannah Swift, changing the name of Susanna to Esther Susanna Swift. Sometimes merging the two women. Moving the children of the 2 Ralph's from one family to the other, etc.
posted by Melissa McLaughlin
Oh dear, sorry to hear about that! WikiTree is way less traumatic than that, at least in my experience. Profiles can still be edited and sometimes negotiations are necessary, but it's usually not that stressful. Most of the time we work together, not against each other. I hope you stick around. And thanks for bringing the profile to our attention. I does need some TLC!
There is no evidence that either of the Ralph Allen's had a daughter named Mary. Please consider disconnecting Mary Allen from this profile.
posted by Alan Pendleton
edited by Alan Pendleton
Evidence: Mary Allen Daughter of Ralph Allen Sinor was buried February 18, 1675.<ref>"Massachusetts Deaths and Burials, 1795-1910", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FHDG-W22 : 17 January 2020), Mary Allen, 1675.</ref>
posted by Anne B
I stand corrected. However, the source you cited is attached to Ralph Allen who married Ester Swift. Which one do you think is correct?
posted by Alan Pendleton
edited by Alan Pendleton
I was at first confused by what you were saying. Attached huh? but I see you mean at Family Search it's attached as a dtr of Ralph and esther. I would certainly give no credence to a family search tree. That same tree has other children attached who according to our wikitree profile are also children of Ralph and Susanna. The record specifically says Ralph Allen Sr., so isn't that this guy? Interesting they are still calling him Ralph Allen Sr after the death of the other Ralph.
posted by Anne B
Agreed, the whole thing is quite confusing.
posted by Alan Pendleton
If I may chime in here: there were certainly at least two Ralph Allens in Sandwich. The designations 'Ralph Sr.' and 'Ralph Jr.' are ambiguous and very difficult to sort out; most genealogists refer to the two as "Ralph Allen the Mason" and "Ralph Allen the Wheelwright".

There is a school of thinking that there were first two Ralph Allens, designated 'Senior' and 'Junior', that the older of the two passed away; and a third, younger Ralph Allen then became 'Junior' while the prior Ralph Allen Jr. was 'promoted' to Senior.

DNA evidence has demonstrated conclusively that Ralph the Mason was closely related to George Sr., and their houses in Sandwich were on adjacent lots. Allen researcher Jack MacDonald believes they were not brothers.

posted by Bryan McCullagh
Refresh. How's that?
posted by Jillaine Smith
The "Two Ralph Allens" section seems to make it clear that this is Ralph Jr. - possibly later called Ralph Sr. Is there any way to make this less confusing?

I'm trying to trace the ancestry of Increase Allen Lapham and I'm pretty sure this is his 3Xggrndfthr.

posted by Jennifer Lapham
I have reviewed the Jack MacDonald genealogy work at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jacmac/allen.pdf and think that he has this Ralph Allen, and his father, George Allen, and their descendants correct. It is excellent scholarship and should be included at the TOP of this Ralph allen profile and the George Allen profile.
posted by Randy Seaver
My opinion is that when Ralph "the mason" died in 1659 as Ralph Sr., then Ralph Jr (1617-1697) became Ralph Sr. in Sandwich, Mass. and stayed Sr. until he died. There were other Ralph's who lived in Sandwich through the `1600s.
posted by Randy Seaver
Is there a reason he's called "Senior"? The other Ralph Allen was older than he was, and he had no son by the name of Ralph (at least not one that is linked to here).

(The narrative has conflicting information about which was called Senior; in some places it calls this one Junior; later on, it claims he was the Senior...)

posted by Jillaine Smith
See the statement from Great Migration Begins at the beginning of Junior's biography. Anderson states that Junior MUST have been younger than Senior. And Junior is NOT the Ralph who married Hester English back in London.
posted by Miguel Kelley
I share Jillaine's perplexity about the suffix. It is common to see the same person described as Junior as a young man (when he was the younger of two living men by the name) and later in life as Senior (after the older man died and younger man had come of age). Unless the terms Senior and Junior are unambiguous (which does not seem to the case here), we should try not to pretend that they were consistent identifiers.
posted by Ellen Smith
My grandaughter born in 2005 has ancestry directly to both Ralph Allens in Sandwich. Her grandmother Burns is a direct descendant of Ralph, the wheelwright, thru his son, Samuel. I am a direct descendant of Ralph, the stonemason, thru his son, Jedediah. When I consider all the questions, I always recognize the significance of dealing with good data and consciousness from your immediate family and going back in time. When I got to "Ralph" through Samuel, I recognized the family patterns did not coincide. While some data fit well, Ralph Allen was not an uncommon name. There is no plausible family relationship other than common ancestors in preceding generations. Hopefully, good and fortunate genealogy will identify the ancestors of Ralph, the stonemason, who married Esther Swyft.
posted by Lynn Phifer
Allen-16407 and Allen-1301 appear to represent the same person because:

Ralph Allen "the Wheelwright", son of George Allen of Sandwich.

Approx. birth year should be 1617, consistent with Anderson.

posted by Bryan McCullagh
Removed Esther Swift-174 as wife of this Ralph Allen; Added her to Ralph "the mason" Allen-2292.
posted by Bryan McCullagh
Bryan, I concur but we need to make sure we attach her to the other Ralph Allen.
posted by Jillaine Smith
It seems clear that this Ralph, son of George the Immigrant, did not marry Esther Swift. I propose we remove Esther Swift as a wife in this profile.
posted by Bryan McCullagh

Rejected matches › Ralph Allen (abt.1590-)