John Andrews (1834 - 1902)

Born 17 Jul 1834 in Cooks River nr. Sydney, NSW

Ancestors

Husband of Sarah (Craft) Andrews — married 4 Oct 1858 in Mangrove Creek NSW

Descendants

Died 5 Oct 1902 at age 68 in Park View, Holden Street, Ashfield, NSW

Problems/Questions Profile manager: M. Lohmeyer [send private message]

There are a few mysteries around John's life - Please see the "Open Questions" section for details - you may just be able to help...! I have also come across lots of incorrect Family Trees on Ancestry, Geni and other websites. Check the "Common Errors & Research Notes" section for details.

Family Snapshot

John ANDREWS, farmer

born — 17 July 1834 near Cooks River, Sydney, NSW

father — unknown

mother — Jane ANDREWS (1814-1889)

bapt. — no record found

marr. — Sarah CRAFT on 4 Oct 1858 at Mangrove Creek, NSW

died — 5 Oct 1902 in Ashfield, NSW

rest — 7 Oct 1902, Rookwood Cemetery, Sydney, NSW (Zone B, Sec. 4, No. 2777)

Children of John and Sarah

'Matthew' William ANDREWS (b. 12 Jul 1859)

'Alfred' John ANDREWS (b. 18 Aug 1860)

Sarah 'Louise' ANDREWS (b. 25 May 1862)

'Arthur' Reuben ANDREWS (b. 12 Jul 1864)

'Emily' Jane ANDREWS (b. 24 Apr 1866)

Irvine Henry ('Herb') ANDREWS (b. 19 Jun 1868)

'Matilda' Ann ANDREWS (b. 24 Aug 1870)

Amy Elizabeth ANDREWS (b. 25 Oct 1872)

John's Timeline

The number in brackets after the year gives John's approximate age at that time.

1834 : Birth at Cooks River near Sydney, NSW (17 July 1834).

1838/9 (4) : John and his mother Jane ANDREWS start living with Philip GOULD.

1839 (5) : Birth of John's half-sister Sarah GOULD - the first of the nine children Jane had with Philip.

1851 (17) : Marriage of John's mother, Jane ANDREWS to Philip GOULD (3 Mar).

1854 (20) : Birth of John's half-brother Henry 'Thomas' GOULD - the last of the nine children Jane had with Philip GOULD.

1858 (24) : Marriage to Sarah CRAFT, daughter of William CRAFT and Rebecca WOODBURY (4 Oct 1858).

1859 (25) : Birth of son 'Matthew' William ANDREWS (12 Jul 1859).

1860 (26) : Birth of son 'Alfred' John ANDREWS (18 Aug 1860).

1862 (28) : Birth of daughter Sarah 'Louise' ANDREWS (25 May 1862).

1864 (30) : Birth of son 'Arthur' Reuben ANDREWS (12 Jul 1864).

1866 (32) : Birth of daughter 'Emily' Jane ANDREWS (24 Apr 1866).

1868 (34) : Birth of son Irvine Henry ('Herb') ANDREWS (19 Jun 1868).

1870 (36) : Birth of daughter 'Matilda' Ann ANDREWS (24 Aug 1870).

1872 (38) : Birth of daughter Amy Elizabeth ANDREWS (25 Oct 1872).

1880 (46) : Death of his step-father Philip GOULD (18 Aug 1880).

1889 (55) : Death of his mother Jane GOULD (née ANDREWS) (25 Nov 1889).

1902 (68) : Death of John ANDREWS at Park View, Holden Street, Ashfield, NSW (5 Oct 1902).

1902 : Burial at Rookwood Cemetery, Sydney, NSW (7 Oct 1902).

John's Story

The mystery of his origins

No records of John's birth or baptism have been identified to date. There appear to be no contemporaneous records of his parents or the exact birthday or birth year. The birth certificate of his son Alfred (1860) suggests that John was born ca. 1834 at Cooks River, NSW.^[1] His age at death (68 years, 3 months) suggests a birth in July 1834. The only record I am aware of that mentions his exact birth day is the inscription on his headstone at Rookwood Cemetery - as transcribed by the Society of Genealogists. Unfortunately, this is not readily verifiable today, as the stone has fallen.^[2] Online, many member trees at Ancestry, Geni, MyHeritage and others cite 7 August 1834, but I have seen no actual sources to back up this date. If you have more information on this, please contact me!

Intriguingly, his death certificate gives his parents' names as John ANDREWS, farmer, and Jane ___________.^[3] This entry has led astray many attempts to identify his parents. I have been able to find no documentary evidence for a suitable John ANDREWS and wife Jane in the colony at that time. Even the identification of Jane ANDREWS as his mother has been challenging and there have been many theories and dead ends (see Research Notes below).

In am now certain that John's mother, Jane ANDREWS, arrived alone in the colony in October 1832 as a free immigrant. For further details of her background and emigration, please see her own profile. She was unmarried, but soon fell pregnant. John's biological father remains unknown to date (see Research Questions below).

Growing up at Mangrove Creek

Around 1838-39, Jane ANDREWS and Philip GOULD became life partners, but did not marry. John would have been about four years old. Philip was a ticket-of-leave man and working on farms around Mangrove Creek at that time (see his profile for more of his colourful past).

By 1841, the couple already had two children (plus John) and the 1841 NSW Census records the young family living in a wooden house, together with three other farm hands.^[4] Whilst the Census only records the name of the householder (Philip GOULD) the gender, age profile and status (where born and whether arrived free or not) matches the known family at that time perfectly.

Between 1839 and 1850, Philip and Jane had seven children (one boy died in infancy) and the local minister, Reverend Alfred Glennie, baptised the six surviving GOULD children on 2 March 1851, the day before he married Jane and Philip (3 March 1851).^[5] I have not found a record of John being baptised together with his six half-siblings.

However, there is other evidence for John's presence in the GOULD household. In December 1856, a highly contagious fever swept through the Mangrove Creek community and many were struck down. Reverend Glennie travelled to Mangrove to minister to the sick and dying. On 9 Dec 1856, he recorded in his diary that he visited Philip Gould’s house at upper Mangrove Creek, where [there] was another fever patient, a lad about 18. Son of Mrs Gould. He was almost delirious and I could be of no service to him, for I could not make him understand me. The boy's age and the wording "son of Mrs Gould " as opposed to "son of Philip Gould" (a subtle distinction made by the Reverend) both strongly suggest that the sick boy was Jane's son John ANDREWS (then aged 22). Her son James, oldest son to Philip GOULD, was only 13 at that time.^[6][7]

Farming at Mangrove Creek

John ANDREWS married Sarah CRAFT on 4 Oct 1856. Sarah was the daughter of William CRAFT and Rebecca CRAFT, (née WOODBURY). The Craft and Woodbury families were both substantial landholders in the Mangrove Creek-Wiseman's Ferry area.^[8]

Together, John and Sarah had eight children between 1859 and 1872, all of whom reached adulthood (see Timeline above).

In 1872, John is listed as a farmer at Mangrove Creek in Greville's Post Office Directory.^[9]

By 1885, John had acquired a substantial landholding in his own right. He is listed as holding a 130 acre property at “Native Dog Gully” near Mangrove Creek, owning 5 horses, 10 cattle and 10 pigs. His sons Alfred ANDREWS and Matthew ANDREWS also held 50 and 200 acres, respectively, near Mangrove Creek.^[10]

Retirement

After retirement, John and Sarah lived with their son, horse trainer Herb ANDREWS, at Holden Street, Ashfield.

Death and Burial

John died at Park View, Holden Street, Ashfield of carcinoma of the intestines on 5 Oct 1902.^[11]

He was interred on 7 Oct 1902 in the Anglican Section of Rookwood Cemetery, Sydney, NSW (Zone B, Section 4, No. 2777)^[12]

Do you have more information about John Andrews? Please contribute to his biography. Everything on WikiTree is a collaborative work-in-progress. If you are not sure about how to add correctly formatted text into this field, please simply get in touch and I will add it for you.

DNA confirmation

Thanks to DNA testing, it has now been confirmed conclusively that Jane ANDREWS, the mother of John, is identical with Jane ANDREWS, the spouse of Philip GOULD.

• A.T. is a descendent of Philip GOULD and Jane ANDREWS via their daughter Sarah GOULD.
• J.K. is a descendent of Philip GOULD and Jane ANDREWS via their daughter Mary GOULD.
• J.A. is a descendent of an unknown male (not Philip!) and Jane ANDREWS via Jane's son John ANDREWS.

J.A. shares significant segments of DNA with both A.T. (39cM on GEDmatch) and J.K. (10cM on GEDmatch), proving that Jane ANDREWS was the mother to both branches of the family.

Open Questions / Further Research

The biggest mystery about John is his parentage. Given the lack of clear documentation, there has been much misinformation and gratuitous guessing by many genealogists over the years. I have come across many different suggested parents and been able to clarify or find contrary information on many. (See Research Notes below).

Who was the biological father of John ANDREWS?

John ANDREWS was born 21 months after his mother's arrival in Sydney. The identity of his father is much speculated about, but unknown. John's death certificate gives his parents as John ANDREWS (farmer) and Jane _________ [no surname]. On her immigration documentation and when marrying Philip GOULD, Jane is listed as 'Jane ANDREWS, spinster', confirming that her maiden surname was ANDREWS.

That opens up three possibilities:

1) The death certificate is correct and both John's mother and father, although not actually married, had the same surname (which seems unlikely - plus there are no matching and unaccounted-for John ANDREWS' in the colony at the time - see below), OR

2) John's father was actually Philip GOULD who Jane eventually married in 1851 after giving him several more children, OR

3) John's biological father had an entirely different surname, lost (or deliberately omitted) over time.

Option 2 is possible, but seems unlikely. Before Jane and Philip married in 1851, they had all of their children baptised - except John. If John was Philip's child, why would he not have been baptised at the same time? One would have to postulate that he had been baptised already, but that the record has been lost. Moreover, when Rev. Glennie mentions John in his diary in 1856, he refers to him as the son of Mrs Gould, not the son of Mr Gould, an important distinction.

I believe that option 3 is the most likely. Identifying Jane's first partner and John ANDREWS' father will be a challenge.

I am now looking at Autosomal and Y-DNA to try and identify the biological parentage of John ANDREWS, Jane's first son.

If you are a descendent of John ANDREWS or Jane ANDREWS and Philip GOULD, please get in touch!

Common Errors & Research Notes

If you look at five different online family trees, you will find five different fathers to John Andrews. Sometimes the correlations are patently impossible, but if you link before you think, amazing things are possible. Some of the most frequent issues I have encountered include:

The "out of England" hypothesis

The authors of a book on the family published in 1980 suggested that John "came out from England as a boy with his family [in the early eighteen hundreds]."^[13] This is unlikely to be correct, as there are no matching immigration records to support this notion, no matching deaths for ANDREWS parents that are not otherwise accounted for and, significantly, John's death certificate clearly states that he was born in the colony, even though it is mysteriously suggesting that his parents were a John and Jane ANDREWS. However, death records can be notoriously inaccurate, given that they rely upon the memory of the surviving spouse or children.

John Martin ANDREWS

The above book also refers to John as "John Martin", a middle name I have seen picked-up across many different family trees online and private. I have not been able to find any evidence for the middle name in any primary or contemporary sources, nor have others been able to point me towards its origins.^[14][15]

He is NOT the son of John ANDREWS (died 1867 at Wollombi)

The labourer John ANDREWS who died on 28 Feb 1867 at Wollombi, aged 60 years is also frequently cited as the father of 'our' John. His parentage is given as 'unknown' in his death certificate. However, there are pointers as to his origins which don't match the father of 'our' John. The certificate notes that he was born in England (ca. 1807) and that he was in NSW for 20 years (i.e. arrived about 1847 - too late to be the father of John [b. 1834] ). He was married to Isabella Sullivan (1858, Wollombi) and had thee sons and two daughters, although it is unusual that no family are listed as informants on the Death Certificate. Clearly, this John is unlikely to be the father of 'our' John ANDREWS, with both dates and locations not matching.

He is NOT the son of John ANDREWS (arrived on Glatton)

Many make the link to John ANDREWS who was sentenced in 1803 and arrived as a convict on the Glatton. Review of the 1828 Census and Muster shows that John was 50 in 1828 (i.e. born ca. 1778) and farming 100 acres in a place called "Eran". It also shows that he was married to Ann (aged 35, born in the colony) and raising a family of 5 (at that stage). John and Ann had a son named John, but he was born in 1821 and so would have been 13 years older than 'our' John (b.1834), which matches with none of the documents which give his age. Given that in 1834, 'our' John's mother Jane was a 20 year-old in far-off Sydney, farmer John from Eran is also clearly not a likely candidate to be the father of 'our' John Andrews.

He is UNLIKELY to be the son of John ANDREWS (arrived on Guildford (7))

Another common claim is to link John ANDREWS (b.1809) as the father of 'our' John. John senior is said to have been born in Warwick, England and transported, aged 18, to Australia. John was convicted with his brother William and both arrived in Sydney on the Guildford in 1827. The 1828 Census notes that John was assigned as a servant to a Wm Elyans in Burwood, Petersham.

Some then postulate that he died in 1836, aged 27, in a drowning accident at Cooks River*.^[16] Whilst there is an alluring coincidence of locations (Cooks River), names (John), surnames (Andrews) and dates, which would explain Jane's single parent status, it turns out that John ANDREWS (ex. Guildford) did not drown. John (ex Guildford) actually went South and lived in the Wollongong area with his wife Catherine Hanifin. He was granted his Ticket of Leave in 1843, which obliges him to remain in the Illawarra and he died there in 1880.

In fact, I have not found a single source for any drowning in 1836 (or thereabouts) of a John ANDREWS in any public records or on Trove, nor are there suitable death certificates on the NSW BDM system. There is only one John ANDREWS death on record in 1836 (NSW BDM No.452/1836 V1836452 20). This is for a 60-year old who lived at the asylum and was buried on 3 Nov 1836.

It is remotely possible that John ANDREWS met Jane ANDREWS before heading south to the Illawarra and Jane moved North to Mangrove Creek. However, we'd have to accept the improbable coincidence that Jane ANDREWS would find a partner with the same surname as her own in the colony, and then have a son to him. Not impossible, but, in the absence of any positive evidence there are less constrained alternatives...

If you have any data to correct or add to any of these assignments, please contact me!^[17]

He is NOT the son of John R. ANDREWS, arrived on the Thomas Arbuthnot

I have also seen 'our' John suggested as a member of the family of John R. ANDREWS who arrived in Australia on the ship Thomas Arbuthnot, but careful checking of the dates and the fact that John was clearly born at Cooks River argue against that assignment.

Random Mix & Match profiles

Geni.com has a member tree listing combining data from several different people. It has John Martin Andrews (born 7 Aug 1834) as the son of a John ANDREWS (b. ca. 1809, d. 28 Feb 1869 in Wollombi, aged 60 years).^[18]

Think before you link!!

The joy of unsourced Member Trees

Many years ago, in searching for information about John, I even came across a Member Tree on Ancestry which had a John Martin Andrews born in 1834, die by drowning in Cooks River in 1836 and then getting married to his first spouse in 1841 (aged seven years and dead five years.... seriously????!). Even for our elusive ancestor, that would be a tough act to follow... ;-)

Sources

1. ↑ NSW Birth Certificate: Alfred John ANDREWS, 18 Aug 1860, No.1860/6904
2. ↑ Report: "Rookwood Cemetery Transcriptions - Headstone Report: John & Sarah ANDREWS", Society of Australian Genealogists, prepared 20 May 2015, in the possession of M.Lohmeyer
3. ↑ NSW Death Certificate: John ANDREWS, 5 Oct 1902, No.1902/12673
4. ↑ 1841 NSW Census, Philip GOULD, Mangrove Creek, District of Brisbane Water, p.4. - accessed at www.ancestry.com
5. ↑ Marriage Certificate, Philip GOULD and Jane ANDREWS, 3 March 1851, No. 582 Vol 37B
6. ↑ Book: Alfred Glennie, Rev. Alfred GLENNIE Journals 1855-60 (1987) in Historical Records of the Central Coast of New South Wales, Gosford District Local History Study Group, Book I., p99-100.
7. ↑ Book: "The dream begins: residents of Brisbane Water in 1841" (vol. 1), Central Coast Family History Society Inc., 2008, p192-193.
8. ↑ Transcript of the Parliamentary Return of Landholders 1885 (District: Windsor): Town [Mangrove Creek], from the NSW Legislative Assembly, Votes & Proceedings 1885 (2nd Session) Vol. 3 - Appendix 2. pp. 435 - 457
9. ↑ Website: “Greville's 1872 Post Office Directory,” Extract of entries for Mangrove Creek at [1], viewed on: 30 Dec 2006, copy in possession of M.Lohmeyer.
10. ↑ Transcript of the Parliamentary Return of Landholders 1885 (District: Windsor): Town [Mangrove Creek], from the NSW Legislative Assembly, Votes & Proceedings 1885 (2nd Session) Vol. 3 - Appendix 2. pp. 435 - 457
11. ↑ NSW Death Certificate: John ANDREWS, 5 Oct 1902, No.1902/12673
12. ↑ Rookwood Cemetery Search at http://www.rookwoodcemetery.com.au/deceased-search-engine (29 Jun 2019)
13. ↑ Book: “Reflections : The Andrews Family from Alfred & Amanda”, Beris MacPherson, Breton Press, Gosford, 1980, p.9 & p.62 (a copy is in the possession of M.Lohmeyer).
14. ↑ The book Reflections, as above.
15. ↑ Personal Communication on the Family of John ANDREWS and Sarah CRAFT from Heather Sushames, Central Coast Family History Society & SAGS, undated, copy in possession of M.Lohmeyer.
16. ↑ Genealogy Report: "The Family of John Andrews" by Thelma Hill, prepared for Jan Clowes, 2014, a copy is in the possession of M.Lohmeyer
17. ↑ Research at https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/
18. ↑ www.geni.com/people/John-Andrews/6000000002702880736

Acknowledgments

Thanks to that many unnamed collaborators who have been assisting me in researching this mystery, including the staff at the NSW BDM.