Ithel ap Morgan (675 - 745)

Born 0675 in Gwent, Glamorgan, Wales

Ancestors

Descendants

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Biography

Ithel was the son of Morgan ab Athwys, husband of Cenedlon ferch Briafael, and father of Rhys (Ap Ithel) Ithel.^[1]

He succeeded his father as King: "... the time of King Ithel ap Morgan (c. 0750)".^[2] Morgan had succeeded Meurig.

Morgan

"At the death of Meurig , his nephew Morgan ap Athrwys succeeded him and is said to have killed Meurig's remaining son, Frioc."^[3]

Research Notes

Morgan ab Athrwys: The Athrwys who was Meurig's father is in debate: Athrwys ap Tewdrig^[3] or Athrwys ap Meurig ap Tewdrig.^[4] The former moves Morgan up a generation, removing the direct lineage between Morgan and King Meurig ap Tewdrig.

A third Athrwys, also [dis?]connecting Morgan as grandson of King Meurig, is suggested in another source, which charts the information from the Llantwit Charters. It shows "Morcant" as "rex Gleuissicg", died 665, brother of Iudhail, and "rex Guent" as "Iudhail (?died 848)" ap Athruis ap Fernuail (died 775) ap Iudhail ap Morcant and father of Arthuail, Fernuail (died 775), Mouric, Ris, Rotri.^[4] - need to double-check to source. I think I got the right connections.

Wolcott notes that determining the dates of this family is contingent on determining the correct lineage: "No progress can be made, however, until we correct the misconception that the family descended through Athrwys ap Meurig ap Tewdrig as cited by several medieval manuscripts.[6] The oldest extant source[7] and some later pedigrees[8] makes the descent through Athrwys ap Tewdrig, a brother of Meurig. While Meurig did have a son named Athrwys, he apparently died before his father. At the death of Meurig, his nephew Morgan ap Athrwys succeeded him and is said to have killed Meurig's remaining son, Frioc.[9] The belief that Morgan was the grandson of Meurig may have arisen from the text of an early charter which is signed Mouric rex cum filio suo Frioc et nepote Morcant filio Athruis.[10]

"No modern Latin word "nepote" exists so some would render it "nepos" or grandson. Yet even that Latin word once had the meaning of both nephew and grandson. But in the Latin of the seventh century, "nepote" had a single meaning: nephew. The correct pedigree is that given in Harleian Ms 3859 before the modern scholars inserted their emendation; together with the extinct family of Meurig, it looks like this"^[5]

Tewdrig, father of

Athrwys & Meurig

• Athrwys, father of Morgan [this Morgan]
  • Morgan ap Athrwys ap Tewdrig
• Meurig [king of , father of Frioc, Athrwys, & Idnerth (all d.s.p.)
  • Morgan ap Athrwys ap Meurig ap Tewdrig

Wolcott suggests that "Meurig son of Enhinti is also Meurig ap Tewdrig". The source Wolcott quotes that supports Enhinti as Meurig's mother "does not name the father" but Wolcott notes that "the Meurig ap Tewdrig in the Gwent pedigrees was the son of Enhinti ferch Cynfarch ap Meirchion.[12]"^[1]

Enhinti as Meurig ap Tewdrig's mother supports the dates Wolcott gives for him:

"This lady [Enhinti] would date from c. 515/520 and be a sister of Urien Rheged. We believe that a Meurig born near 535 fits well with the Meurig to whom St Cadog turned over the bulk of his kingdom. All the pedigrees of St. Cadog and his parents point to a birthdate near 505; late in life and with no sons of his own, St. Cadog sought a man to succeed himself.[13] Surely such a man would be a full generation younger than himself as we estimate Meurig ap Tewdrig to have been."^[1]

Iudhael, another spelling given for Ithel.^[6]

In an illustration charting "the Kings of Gwent and the Llandaff Charters", the following are shown with "rex ..."^[4]

• rex Guenti, rext Gueniscoit, Etguin ap Guriat
• rex Guent, Iudhail (?died 848) ap Athruis ap Fernuail (died 775) ap Iudhail ap Morcant
• rex Gleuissicg, Iudhail ap Morcant, father of Arthuail, Fernuail (died 775), Mouric, Ris, Rotri
• rex Gleuissicg, Morcant (died 665), brother of Iudhail
• rex Ercycg, Guruodu
• rex Ercicg, Gurcant ap Cinuin ap Peipiau ab Erb

In the same book (page 138) is found a table discussing inscriptions which includes the following for "Llantwit Major 3, 1012/223/G65":

• Radford proposed an identification with the father of a Fernmail filius Iudhail, namely the Fernmail who died in 775 (AC); this would suggest a mid-eighth-century date and Sims-Williams has adduced further evidence in its favour.[57] Thomas, however, proposed an identification with Iudhail, King of Gwent, who was killed in 858.[58]
  • [57] C.A. Ralegh Radford, 'Two Datable Cross Shafts at Llantwit Major', AC, 132 (1983), 107-15, dated the epigraphy to before 800, making it possible the IUTHAHEL was Ithel, the father of Fernmail filius Iudhail, ob. 775; this would also allow an attractive identification of Abbot Samson and also ARTMALI: CIB 277-8.
  • [58] RCAHMW, Glamorgan, i: 3, no. 933.

Lineage: The same information from his father's profile that is the basis for the following discussion was deleted from this profile in favor of having the discussion here.

Ap Arthwys-2's profile as of 16 April 2022 had information from, introducing the quote with "Boyer notes that"

• "Gwrgan was son of Ithel ab Idwllon ap Morgan Mawr (or Morgan Hen), King of Morgannwg who died in 974. Morgan Mawr was son of Owain ap Hywel, and the latter was the king of Glywysing, who died about 886. In turn Hywel was son of Rhys ap Arthfael ap Gwriad ap Brochwel ap Rhys ap King Ithel of Glywysing ap King Morgan of Glywysing (who died 665) ab Arthrwys ap Meurig ap Tewdrig ap Llywarch (Teithfall) ap Mynnio ab Erb. The latter would have been born about 400 A. D."^[7]

And continuing with "In list form, Boyer's account would appear as follows:". Excerpted from that list on his father Athruis's profile (Ap Meurig-10) are three generations preceding Ithel (and Ithel & son):

5. Meurig ap Tewdrig

6. Arthrwys ap Meurig

7. King Morgan of Glywysing, who died 655 [sic: text has 665]

8. King Ithel of Glywysing

9. Rhys ap King Ithel

Of these five, the first three are listed with nonexistent WikiTree IDs:

5. ap Teudrig-1

6. ap Mewurig-10

7. ap Arpwys-2

The father, etc. of Meurig -> Erb, who "would have been born about 400", as described by Boyer, were listed as follows^[7] (without any WikiTree IDs):

1. Erb, born about 400 A. D.

2. Nynnio ab Erb

3. Llywarch (Teithfall) ap Mynnio

4. Tewdrig ap Llywarch (Teithfall)

WikiTree Timeline (per profile datafields as of 17 April 2022):

Paternal line for Itel ap Morgan (0675 - 0745)

Morgan Mwynfawr Ap Arthwys (0655 - 0710)

Athruis Ap Meurig (0618 - 0655)

Meurig ap Tewdrig (abt 0530 - )

The Wikipedia article for Athrwys ap Meurig^[8] was the only source listed on his father's profile, aside from Boyer (passage just quoted),^[7] although the following image was attached (as of 16 April 2022):

"Wales and the Britons, 350-1064 Volume 1, p. 253" - https://www.wikitree.com/photo/jpg/Iestyn-5

Wikipedia has "c. 620" as the reign of Athrwys (c. 605–655) as Prince of Gwent, who was preceded by Meurig ap Tewdrig:^[8]

Athrwys "was the son of Meurig ap Tewdrig, a King of Gwent and Glywysing in South Wales.[2] His mother was Onbrawst, daughter of Gwrgan Fawr, King of Ergyng. His siblings were Idnerth and Ffriog.[3] His wife may have been Cenedlon ferch Briafael Frydig, though it has also been suggested that she was the wife of a later king of this dynasty [ grandson Ithel ]; his children included Morgan ab Athrwys, later a king of Gwent, as well as Ithel and Gwaidnerth.[2] While Athrwys's father Meurig and son Morgan are named as kings in the Book of Llandaff, Athrwys is only named as a king of Gwent in a charter which is believed to be spurious (on chronological grounds, due to the witnesses of the charter). Wendy Davies concluded that Athrwys predeceased his father and thus never ruled as king, and when Meurig died after a long reign the kingship passed to Morgan. Davies suggests Athrwys lived between about 605–655.[4]

"His son was Morgan ab Athrwys or Morgan Mwynfawr ('Morgan the Benefactor' in the Welsh language). Morgan was King of Morgannwg, or Gwent and Glywysing...."^[8] (no source citation in this paragraph, as of 17 April 2022)

[2] Bartrum, p. 35.

[3] Bartrum, p. 547.
- Bartrum, Peter C. (1993). A Welsh Classical Dictionary (PDF). Aberystwyth: National Library of Wales. p. 136.^[9]

[4] Davies, p. 76.
- Davies, Wendy, The Llandaff Charters, National Library of Wales, 1979.

The Wikipedia article for the son of Athrwys says "Morgan ap Athrwys or Morgan Mwynfawr ('Morgan the Generous'; fl. c. 730[1])" was "a king of Gwent and Glywysing (i.e., Morgannwg) in southeast Wales.[2] He was the grandson of Meurig ap Tewdrig and the son of Athrwys ap Meurig.... He seems to have been succeeded by his son Ithel,[1] before Ithel's many sons divided their patrimony among themselves.[2]"^[10]

[1] Pierce, Thomas. Welsh Biography Online. "Morgan Mwynfawr". The Honourable Society of Cymmrodorion, 2009. Accessed 22 Feb 2013.

[2] Lloyd, John E. A History of Wales from the Earliest Times to the Edwardian Conquest, Vol. 1, p. 274. Longmans, Green, & Co. (London), 1911. Accessed 22 Feb 2013.

... see article links for fn info.^[10]

Wife: Gweneddlon and Cenedlon are maybe two different people.

In a passage about Athrwys ap Meurig ap Tewdrig (620), father of Morgan, Ithel, and Gwaidnerth: "His wife was perhaps Cenedlon ferch Briafael Frydig. See s.n. Briafael Frydig."^[9]

If Morgan was a son of Athrwys born 620, he was probably born c650, give or take a decade, and his son Ithel about c680, give or take a decade. The birth year for the profile for Gweneddlon (now Cenedlon) ferch Briafael was 0680.

The passage about Athrwys ap Meurig says that "Wendy Davies concluded that Athrwys predeceased his father and thus never ruled as king, and when Meurig died after a long reign the kingship passed to Morgan. Davies suggests Athrwys lived between about 605–655."^[9]

Ithel ap Morgan vs Ithel ab Athrwys: The passage just discussed about Athrwys ap Meurig ap Tewdrig (620), shows him with a son Ithel as well as Morgan, with "q.v." by Ithel. In the pdf, the only mention of an Ithel ab Athrwys is the son of Athrwys ap Ffernfael (755), which is obviously not the same Ithel, son of Athrwys ap Meurig.^[11] Morgan's successor is said to have been his son Ithel (not his brother).^[12]

Kings of Glywysing based on the preceding, it seems that there is consensus among the sources that the kingshp passed from Meurig to Morgan to Ithel to Rhys, having skipped Athrwys, father of Morgan. However, another Athrwys was king, and also had a son named Ithel: Athrwys ap Ffernfael (755).^[9]

King Morgan "[ab Athrwys]" and his brother Gwaidnerth are mentioned in a passage about Bishop Berthwyn (Wendy Davies puts "his period as bishop from about 700 to 745.")^[9]

"Gwaidnerth had killed his brother Meirchion in a quarrel about the kingdom. The fratricide was excommunicated by bishop Oudoceus. At the end of three years he sought pardon of Oudoceus, who sent him on a pilgrimage to Dol in Brittany. However Gwaidnerth returned before the end of the year, for which reason Oudoceus refused to absolve him. Then Oudoceus died and was succeeded by Berthwyn. Gwaidnerth and king Morgan [ab Athrwys] came to Berthwyn and besought him to let Gwaidnerth go free."^[9]

Sources

1. ↑ ^{1.0 1.1 1.2} Darrell Wolcott, "Rethinking the Gwent Pedigrees" (accessed 18 April 2022).
2. ↑ DWB: Clydog (accessed 17 April 2022).
3. ↑ ^{3.0 3.1} Wolcott, "Rethinking..." op.cit., citing Text of the Book of Llandaff, Oxford, 1893 pp 152 and 155. The article does not give the date of Meurig's death.
4. ↑ ^{4.0 4.1 4.2} T. M. Charles-Edwards, Wales and the Britons, 350-1064 Volume 1 of History of Wales. Edition illustrated. Publisher Oxford University Press, 2013 (page 253, WikiTree image, accessed 18 April 2022).
5. ↑ Wolcott, "Rethinking..." (see the article for chart and footnotes).
6. ↑ "Cenedlon ferch Briafeal, wife of Ithel (also Iudhael) ap Morgan, was the mother of Rhys ap Ithel." ~ Rethinking the Gwent Pedigrees, by Darrell Wolcott (although the article estimates her birth year as 0610, which is not compatible with Ithel born 0655 or son Rhys, born 0709).
7. ↑ ^{7.0 7.1 7.2} Carl Boyer 3rd. Medieval Welsh Ancestors of Certain Americans. By the author: Santa Clarita, California, 2004. Introduction to section on Iestyn ap Gwrgan, on page 195. Individual notes on this line begins on page 159, "Erb"
8. ↑ ^{8.0 8.1 8.2} Athrwys ap Meurig (c. 605–655), accessed 17 April 2022.
9. ↑ ^{9.0 9.1 9.2 9.3 9.4 9.5} The pdf is 80 pages, so it is not page 136 in the pdf. A search for 136 finds 5, with this being likely one: The 136 in the paragraph below the heading "Iolo Fiction", which follows the entry for "ATHRWYS ap MEURIG ap TEWDRIG. (620)"
   • "A prince of Glywysing who appears in the genealogies of that region, although his name is accidentally missing in the earliest version. See HG 28, JC 9, ABT 15, MP 3 inEWGT pp.12, 45, 105, 122. In the Book of Llandaf he appears frequently as a genealogical link between Morgan ab Athrwys and Meurig ap Tewdrig (see BLD 140, 144, 148), but is never mentioned as king himself, from which it appears that he died while Meurig was still living. Besides Morgan he was father of Ithel (q.v.) and Gwaidnerth (BLD 176, 190). His wife was perhaps Cenedlon ferch Briafael Frydig. See s.n. Briafael Frydig.
   • "Iolo Fiction: In the Iolo MSS. the name Athrwys is variously mis-spelt, and in one place we find it written Arthur(p.136). This seems to have led William Owen Pughe in his Cambrian Biography, 1803, (s.nn. Anna, Arthur, Meirig, Uthyr) to put forward the suggestion that Arthur was the same person as Athrwys ap Meurig. It was discussed and rejected by Sharon Turner (History of the Anglo-Saxons,Bk.3, Ch.3, 1805) and Rice Rees (Welsh Saints, 1836, pp.185-6), but accepted by Robert Owen (The Kymry, 1891, p.77)."
10. ↑ ^{10.0 10.1} Morgan ab Athrwys (accessed 17 April 2022).
11. ↑ From the pdf (op.cit.): "ATHRWYS ap FFERNFAEL.(755): A king of Glywysing mentioned in the Book of Llandaf:Athruis rex filius Fernuail(BLD 210a), and also Athruis rex(BLD 208). His pedigree occurs in HG 28 in EWGT p.12 and makes him father of Ithel ab Athrwys. He was contemporary with bishop Cadwared. Wendy Davies dates the charters c.780-5 (LlCh p.118).
12. ↑ Dictionary of Welsh Biography: "Morgan Mwynfawr (fl. 730), 'the Benefactor', or Morgan ab Athrwys, king of Morgannwg", by Professor Thomas Jones Pierce (1905-1964), accessed 17 April 2022.