Robert Aston, Knt., son and heir of Roger Aston, Knt., and Joyce Freville,[1] daughter of Baldwin Freville, Knt. of Tamworth, Warwickshire, was born about 1414 (aged 4 in 1418, 6 in 1420).[2][3]
In 1418, he was co-heir of his uncle, Sir Baldwin Freville, inheriting manors in Warwickshire, Surrey and Wiltshire. He was Sheriff of Staffordshire in 1452-1453 and had lands in Haywood, Park Hill and Brocton, Staffordshire.[2]
He married Isabel Brereton, daughter of William Brereton and Alice Corbet.[2] They had at least two sons and two daughters:
A possible daughter Isabel, shown in the Visitation and in Richardson, appears to have been born before 1420, and has therefore been detached and reattached as a sister, daughter of Roger Aston, as appears from a marriage record in 1427.[6]
Sources
↑ 1.01.11.21.3The Visitacion of Staffordschire Made by Robert Glover ...1583. (1883). Online at Google Books, pages 37-38.
↑ 2.02.12.22.32.42.52.62.7 Douglas Richardson. Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 2nd ed., 4 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham, Salt Lake City, UT: the author, 2011, vol. I, pages 57-58, ASTON 10.
↑ Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham (Salt Lake City, Utah: the author, 2013), vol. I, page 176, ASTON 13.
↑ Ian Douglas Rowney. The Staffordshire Political Community 1440-1500, Vol. II. PhD Thesis submitted to the University of Keele, 1981. Page 450. https://eprints.keele.ac.uk/5853/2/RowneyPhD1981Vol2.pdf . Citing the marriage of Richard, son of John Bagot and Isabel, daughter of Roger Aston on 19 January 1427, recorded in the register of Bishop Heyworth in Lichfield Joint Record Office, B/A/1/9 fo. 156v.
Richardson, Douglas. Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 4 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. 2nd edition. (Salt Lake City, UT: the author, 2011). See also WikiTree's source page for Magna Carta Ancestry.
Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. (Salt Lake City, UT: the author, 2013). See also WikiTree's source page for Royal Ancestry.
See Base Camp for more information about identified Magna Carta trails and their status. See the project's glossary for project-specific terms, such as a "badged trail".
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There is a problem with the dates on his daughter Isabel, who had a son before 1445, making Sir Robert a grandfather at 30. The marriage of Richard, son of John Bagot, and Isabel, daughter of Roger Aston, is apparently recorded in the register of Bishop Heyworth in Lichfield Joint Record Office on 19 January 1427, B/A/1/9 fo. 156. (Ian Douglas Rowney. The Staffordshire Political Community 1440-1500, Vol. II. PhD Thesis submitted to the University of Keele, 1981. Page 450. https://eprints.keele.ac.uk/5853/2/RowneyPhD1981Vol2.pdf )
So the problem is, Isabel (Aston) Bagot is a daughter of Roger Aston and not of Richard Aston. This will require some explanation on each of the profiles as essentially every other source has it wrong.
I doubt there would be a parish register going back this far. Parish registers were not formally introduced until the 1530s. I suspect Ian Douglas Rowney, author of the PhD thesis, may have made a mistake.
The birth date of Isabel's son John Bagot is unsourced and presumably it may be wrong, and John Bagot's marriage date is also unsourced. The ODNB entry for the Bagot family gives a rough birth date of about 1461 for Isabel's grandson Lewis but with no indication of why, and much of the information on Lewis's profile lacks a good source. So the way to try and resolve this is probably to start by seeing if any firmer evidence can be found for the dates of Isabel's son John and grandson Lewis, and then work back from there. I note in passing that WikiTree currently shows Lewis’s oldest child as born in 1485, and there seems to be no good source yet for his marriage dates.
Marriage in the early teens (or younger) was not that unusual in this period, nor was it that unusual for a female to have her first child in her mid-teens.
As far as this profile is concerned, there is nothing as yet to call seriously into question the sources which indicate that Robert Aston had a daughter Isabel who married Richard Bagot. Research should probably, as I say, focus initially on Isabel's son John and grandson Lewis.
I assume the record Rowney claims to have seen is a marriage licence. Rowney is using it to argue that Isabella married Richard Bagot senior; every other source has her marrying Richard Bagot junior. Richard junior was born in about 1419, so the marriage (or marriage contract) was when he was 8 or 9 - not unusual in the Staffordshire gentry at the time. Wrottesley https://archive.org/details/newcollectionsforhi11stafuoft/page/60/mode/2up?view=theater says John the son of Richard and Isabella was born in about 1436; he seems to have been of full age in 1465.
Michael, there is something that would make us seriously question that Isabel was a daughter of Richard Aston. Did you look at the Ph.D. Thesis?
1. There is a chronology that makes it unlikely if not impossible.
2. There is the fact that the exact same error and argument is made for her sister Margaret.
3. We know from her tomb that apparently her LNAB was Aston, and her parentage was simply a bad guess.
4. Now we have a Bishops record which directly states she is a daughter of Roger Aston.
So, yes all of the ancient pedigrees and Richardson who followed them are wrong in this case.
I just realized the Bishop Heyworth's Register says more than we have Isabel's parentage is wrong. The pedigrees have her married to the wrong Richard Bagot. She married Richard Bagot, son of John Bagot on 19 June 1427; she did not marry his son Richard son of Richard Bagot.
"Note- The marriage of Richard, son of John Bagot and Isabel, daughter of Roger Aston on 19 January 1427 is recorded in the register of Bishop Heyworth in Lichfield Joint Record Office, B/A/1/9fo.156v. This is important because Isabel is usually thought of as the wife of Richard II; they were about the same age."
Thanks, Joe. Would you or Stephen feel up to making the necessary changes to profiles, with explanations? You are obviously far more on top of this than I am.
At the moment I'm not totally convinced that we have Isabel married to the wrong Richard. I'd like to see the actual wording of the record cited by Rowney in his thesis. Both Roger Aston and John Bagot were alive in 1427, and might have signed a marriage licence as heads of family rather than as fathers - does the document actually specify they were the fathers, or were they just named? John Bagot junior's grave specifies that his parents were Richard and Isabella Aston; but that could be a mistake by a later generation after his death - the Visitation conflates the two Richards.
I agree, Stephen, it might be premature to assume Isabel is attached to the wrong husband. Maybe for now the answer is
- to detach Isabel as daughter of Robert and attach her to Roger, adding explanatory notes to the relevant profiles
- to add to her profile something referring to what the PhD thesis says about which Richard was her husband, and saying that this needs further research, but
- not to change which Richard is her husband at this stage
I hope that makes sense!
I have looked to see if Bishop William Heyworth's register is viewable on the web but could not find it. I suspect neither it nor a transcript of it has been digitised.
I doubt there would be a parish register going back this far. Parish registers were not formally introduced until the 1530s. I suspect Ian Douglas Rowney, author of the PhD thesis, may have made a mistake.
The birth date of Isabel's son John Bagot is unsourced and presumably it may be wrong, and John Bagot's marriage date is also unsourced. The ODNB entry for the Bagot family gives a rough birth date of about 1461 for Isabel's grandson Lewis but with no indication of why, and much of the information on Lewis's profile lacks a good source. So the way to try and resolve this is probably to start by seeing if any firmer evidence can be found for the dates of Isabel's son John and grandson Lewis, and then work back from there. I note in passing that WikiTree currently shows Lewis’s oldest child as born in 1485, and there seems to be no good source yet for his marriage dates.
Marriage in the early teens (or younger) was not that unusual in this period, nor was it that unusual for a female to have her first child in her mid-teens.
As far as this profile is concerned, there is nothing as yet to call seriously into question the sources which indicate that Robert Aston had a daughter Isabel who married Richard Bagot. Research should probably, as I say, focus initially on Isabel's son John and grandson Lewis.
edited by Michael Cayley
edited by Stephen Heathcote
1. There is a chronology that makes it unlikely if not impossible. 2. There is the fact that the exact same error and argument is made for her sister Margaret. 3. We know from her tomb that apparently her LNAB was Aston, and her parentage was simply a bad guess. 4. Now we have a Bishops record which directly states she is a daughter of Roger Aston.
So, yes all of the ancient pedigrees and Richardson who followed them are wrong in this case.
I just realized the Bishop Heyworth's Register says more than we have Isabel's parentage is wrong. The pedigrees have her married to the wrong Richard Bagot. She married Richard Bagot, son of John Bagot on 19 June 1427; she did not marry his son Richard son of Richard Bagot.
"Note- The marriage of Richard, son of John Bagot and Isabel, daughter of Roger Aston on 19 January 1427 is recorded in the register of Bishop Heyworth in Lichfield Joint Record Office, B/A/1/9fo.156v. This is important because Isabel is usually thought of as the wife of Richard II; they were about the same age."
edited by Joe Cochoit
edited by Michael Cayley
- to detach Isabel as daughter of Robert and attach her to Roger, adding explanatory notes to the relevant profiles
- to add to her profile something referring to what the PhD thesis says about which Richard was her husband, and saying that this needs further research, but
- not to change which Richard is her husband at this stage
I hope that makes sense!
I have looked to see if Bishop William Heyworth's register is viewable on the web but could not find it. I suspect neither it nor a transcript of it has been digitised.