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Rainald (Balliol) de Balliol (abt. 1060 - aft. 1121)

Sir Rainald "Renaud, Renard" de Balliol formerly Balliol aka de Bailleul, Bailleul
Born about in Bailleul-en-Gouffern, Orne, arrondisement Argentan, Normandiemap [uncertain]
Son of [father unknown] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Husband of — married 1086 in Bailleul, Nord, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, Francemap
[children unknown]
Died after after about age 61 [location unknown]
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Profile last modified | Created 2 Feb 2012
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The Birth Date is a rough estimate. See the text for details.

Contents

Biography

Note: There are several families that are given the modern name of Balliol (or variations) but although they have the same name they are not at all related and originate from different areas of northern France, where there were thirteen villages named Bailleul.[1]

Ancestry

Rainald de Balliol (de Bailleul or de Balgiole) was from Bailleul-en-Gouffern, Orne, arrondisement Argentan, in Normandie.[2]

He is almost always listed as Rainaldus in primary sources, but as Renaud, Reynold or Reginald in secondary sources.

His parents are never named in any of the primary sources and those that name Guy (or Guido) de Bailleul and Mabel Talvas d'Alencon as his parents are confusing the Balliols from Picardy, to whom Rainald was not related. [3] It is also possible that neither Guy or his wife Mabel ever existed.

Birth date

Rainald's birth date is not known but given he was Sheriff of Shropshire by 1086 and survived until at least 1119 (see below), a rough birth date of around 1060 would be reasonable.

Some sources[4] claim that he was at the Battle of Hastings, which would mean his birth date would have to be earlier and a Renaud de Bailleul does appear in the Dives Roll.[5] However this is a much later list of the names of men supposed to be in the invasion of England, from 1866 and doesn't cite any sources and can't be considered reliable.

He may be one and the same as Pierre, Knight of Balliol and Fecamp who contributed one ship and twenty men-at-arms at Hastings, or he may be the brother or son of Pierre. Renard's descendants also included several Bishops of Lincoln." [4]

Sheriff of Shropshire

At some time between 1083 and 1086, Rainald was appointed Sheriff (or Vicecomes) of Shropshire. In 1083 Warin 'the Bald' the previous Sheriff was still alive signing the Charter for the foundation of Shrewsbury Abbey by Earl Roger de Montgomery on 24 February that year.[6]

However by the Domesday survey of 1086 Rainald is definitely named as Vicecomes.

Marriage

At about the same time Rainald also married Warin's widow, Amieria, who was a kinswoman, perhaps a niece (nepta) of Roger de Montgomery.[7] He also probably became guardian of her son Hugh, who was almost certainly a minor when his father died.[8]

1086 Domesday Book Mention

"Renard de Bailleul, may have been mentioned in the Domesday Book of 1086. [4]

As a "Marcher Lord" (on the Welsh border or "marches"), Earl Robert Montgomery II was nearly as powerful as the Norman king, who ruled from far-away Winchester. [9]

As his Sheriff and nephew-in-law, Rainald de Bailol was a leading nobleman in north-west England in the 11th Century. [9]

Issue

Rainald de Bailleul and Aimera had two sons:[7]

  1. Rainald II, who probably succeeded his father in his Norman territories;
  2. William, who died before 1144-1150. This is almost certainly not William de Knightley.

Research Notes

Knightley Manor

"Knightley is Cbenistelei in Domesday Book, and was then a manor of Earl Roger de Montgomery, and under him it was held by Rainald de Bailleul, the Norman baron of Bailleul en Gouffern. According to an honoured custom amongst the heralds and genealogists of earlier years the Domesday tenant Rainald was greeted as without doubt the ancestor of the Knightleys who were to succeed him. In an illuminated space he sat as 'Sir Rainald Knightley of Knightley' contentedly at the head of the many shielded pedigree which is the pride of the house, and in time gave his name in 1819 to Sir Rainald Knightley, the first and last peer of the name. But in our own day the stemfather, as the Germans have it, of a long genealogy holds place compared with which the presidency of a Central American republic is stability itself. Eyton's researches forced Rainald to take Bailleul for his surname in place of Knightley, and Mr. Round, with the French cartularies in hand, closes to Rainald the career of an ancestor by killing him off without issue and providing him a nephew Hamelin for next heir."[10]
  1. Guy-Bernard de Baliol, born in 1068 (aka Barnard). Bernard/Barnard inherited his father's titles and lands. Bernard supported King Stephen in the 1135-1154 AD civil war and was captured with him at the Battle of Lincoln in 1141 but escaped or was ransomed. He ended his days as lord of Bywell Castle in Northumberland and some say Sir Rainald also died there after 1086. Others say he died at Knightley Manor in Stratfordshire.
  1. William / Willem born in 1075. William inherited the Manor of Knightley in Stratfordshire from his mother (it was a Montgomery fief but Rainald & Aimera ran it).

Sources

  1. Beam, Amanda G. The political ambitions and influences of the Balliol dynasty, c. 1210-1364, [thesis] 2005.
  2. Loyd, Lewis C. The origins of some Anglo-Norman families, edited by Charles Travis Clay & David C. Douglas, Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing co., 1999. p. 11-12. Originally published as Vol CIII of The Publications of the Harleian Society, 1951.
  3. http://earthfriendarts.tripod.com/Baliol.htm; cites: "Pedigrees of Some of the Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants," Vol. III, by J. Orton Bock and Timothy Field Beard
  4. 4.0 4.1 4.2 Summary history of the early Baliol (Bailleul) family. earthfriendsarts.tripod.com
  5. Camp, Anthony J. My ancestors came with the Conqueror: Those who did and some of those who probably did not. Baltimore: Genealogical publishing company, 2008. Originally published by The Society of Genealogists, London, 1990.
  6. Eyton, Antiquities of Shropshire, vol 7, p, 204
  7. 7.0 7.1 Keats-Rohan, Katherine S.B., Domesday People: A prosopography of persons occurring in English documents 1066-1166 - Book 1 Domesday book., Rochester, New York: Boydell Press, 1999. p. 348.
  8. Eyton, Antiquities of Shropshire, vol 7, p. 205.
  9. 9.0 9.1
  10. The Ancestor; a quarterly review of county and family history, heraldry and antiquities, pg 1-2 [1]

See also:





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Comments: 21

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Please see p. 335 et seq.:

https://en.geneanet.org/archives/ouvrages?action=detail&livre_id=10170452&page=335&book_type=livre&search_type=livre&name=des+MARETS&with_variantes=1 [Héraldique et Généalogie, Published in 2000]

This appears to be a reliable source - I have found nothing to contradict it, and much to confirm it.

Of the Bailleul-en-Gouffern, there appear to be two sons of this Renaud / Rainald, another Renaud / Rainald and a Guillaume, cited as brothers, and then a descendent named Gilles (short for Guillaume? who knows) holding the same fief. Certainly, the lineage starting with the first Gilles is documented. There are later generations with sons named Renaud as well, though the name was not uncommon.

No one can or should say definitively that the various branches of Balliol/Bailleul are wholly unrelated. I have seen family lore from various branches that they were related which of course we take with a grain of salt. The branches in Normandy do have similar enough arms, spelled their name the same (surprisingly uniformly), operated in near enough locations to each other, and did not seem to inter-marry with each other much, such that a close kin relationship seems likely to me. Otherwise, it seems a very odd coincidence.

Moreover, it was relatively common at the time for noble French families with Norman lands to have noble relatives holding land in England after the Norman conquest (think of d'Estouteville/Stuteville, Harcourt, Paynel, Saint Jean/Saint John, Martel, Ferrieres/Ferrers, etc). Given this family's ancestry goes back to that time, and sometimes husbands took on their wives names or had children out of wedlock, and that there seem to have been quite a large contingent of folks carrying the name, no one can conclusively rule it out.

The profile manager could leave a son attached to this profile - Renaud II or Guillaume, as it seems they both did exist - as a connector ancestor to the first Gilles. Then, if anyone is energetic, they could complete the descendance from there, as there are no doubt numerous family members already with profiles who deserve to be connected to each other.

Links to other sources on the descendants in the Bailleul-en-Gouffern line:

1. https://en.geneanet.org/archives/ouvrages?action=detail&livre_id=10170452&page=335&book_type=livre&search_type=livre&name=des+MARETS&with_variantes=1

2.http://c.corday.free.fr/normandie/img/menilimbert/ExtraitBulletinSocieteHistoriqueOrne_1892.pdf

3.https://www.google.com/books/edition/Extrait_des_chartes_et_autres_actes_Norm/2N1fAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Bailleul

4.https://pdnprod.unicaen.fr/scripta/ead.html?id=scripta&c=scripta_sc_9821

5.http://remparts-de-normandie.eklablog.com/les-remparts-du-renouard-orne-a161719388

posted by Lisa Paye
Is definitely not the father of Hugh de Balliol or Wido de Balliol, they were from a different family. As the bio states there were several families with the same name Balliol, but they weren't related.

Although we don't know his birth date, given longevity in the medieval period and that we know he was still alive in 1121, it is unlikely he was born much earlier than 1060.

posted by John Atkinson
Probably born closer to 1040 or 1050. MAY be father of Hugh <wiki # Balliol-62>.
posted by Dan Norum
Al, please don't place your DNA information on the profile of another person. Feel free to create a free space page or place it on your personal profile. It doesn't belong here.
Rainald Should not have been disconnected from the sons he was Connected to assuming

he was not related to them do to different Places named Bailleul is Foolish, these area are not far apart from one another. The obective of these Families was to Conquer Territory and Claim Land.

posted by [Living Scott]
I'm detaching William as son of Rainald. The first source states that his ancestry is unknown. I've also detached Hugh, since the references note that he was likely from his wife's first marriage.
Al, please post further comments with regard to your theories and Y-DNA on G2G. That is the proper place for them so others can see and discuss. Be sure to tag them with 'euroaristo' and 'pre-1500'. Thank you.
As people back then had Place names and Occupational names and there being different Villages named Bailleul it does not mean they are not related as people do move and Migrate to other area's regardless

of Distance, back then the reason may have been to Gain power and control of another area. Think about the Distances people are Migrating Today.

posted by [Living Scott]
I'm still updating the biography using better sources, but ultimately research seems to be demonstrating that none of the current 3 sons, linked to Rainald are actually his. Wido (Guy) and Hugh were brothers but from the Picardy Bailleul line, their parents are unknown. I'm not sure that William de Knightley actually existed, but in any case he is not the same as William the son of Rainald.

If anyone has reliable sources that prove otherwise please post them as a comment or in the Research notes. Thank you

posted by John Atkinson

Rejected matches › Jim J. Bailey

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Categories: Battle of Hastings | House of Balliol | Estimated Birth Date