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Christian (Bruce) Bruce Countess of Mar (abt. 1273 - abt. 1356)

Lady Christian Bruce Countess of Mar formerly Bruce
Born about in Seton, East Lothian, Scotlandmap [uncertain]
Ancestors ancestors
Wife of — married 1292 (to before Sep 1305) [location unknown]
Wife of — married Mar 1306 [location unknown]
Wife of — married 1326 in Cambuskenneth Abbey, Stirlingshire, Scotlandmap
Descendants descendants
Died about at about age 83 in Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotlandmap [uncertain]
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Profile last modified | Created 20 Aug 2015
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Scottish Clans
Christian (Bruce) Bruce Countess of Mar was a prominent member of a Scottish Clan.
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Biography

Christian (Bruce) Bruce Countess of Mar is a member of House of Bruce.

Christian, daughter of Robert Bruce and Marjory Carrick.[1]


She married :

  1. Gratney, Earl of Mar.[2]
  2. Christopher Seton (d. 1306)[3]
  3. Sir Andrew Murray.[4][5]
In 1335, she commanded the garrison of Kildrummy Castle.

Christian died in 1357 and was buried at Dunfermline, with her parents.[6][7]

Research Notes

Sir Alexander Seton has been detached as the son of Christian Bruce, Countess of Mar, wife of Christopher Seton. See Seton-233 for a full explanation.

Dalrymple suggests on page 361-2, that all of the Alexander's, son, gr-son or gr.gr-son, should be taken to be one person...see part transcripts below.

The question is, which shall we reject ? If Fordun intended to say, that Alexander Seton, slain at Kinghorn 1332, was the father of Alexander Seton, governor of Berwick in 1333, and the grandfather of William and Thomas, slain at Berwick in 1333, it has been demonstrated that that story is absurd and impossible. For Alexander, the son of Christian Bruce, could not have been above 32 years of age, and, consequently, his grandson could not have been a soldier in the same year. We must either hold, that the son of Christian Bruce was not slain at Kinghorn in 1332, or that the Alexander Seton, who had two sons slain at Berwick in 1333, was not the grandson of Christian Bruce , and of course, we must hold, that all the genealogical writers wlio have supposed this pedigree have been in an error.

And, inclining to be of this opinion, I also think, that the Alexander Seton, who was one of the persons that addressed the letter to the Pope in 1320, who is said by Fordun to have been governor of Berwick in 1333, who was present at Balliols parliament in Edinburgh 1333-4, and who was a com- missioner to England in 1340, was one and the same person, the son of Sir Christopher Seton and Christian Bruce ; and thus the pedigree of the son, grandson, and great-grandson of Christian Bruce, will be curtailed, and the events which have been supposed applicable to three Alexander Setons, will be found to have relation to one and the same person.[8]

Sources

  1. Paul, James Balfour, Sir, 1846-1931 : The Scots Peerage : Founded On Wood's Ed. Of Sir Robert Douglas's Peerage Of Scotland; Containing An Historical And Genealogical Account Of The Nobility Of That Kingdom : Free Download, Borrow, And Streaming : Internet Archive". 2021. Internet Archive.Robert Brus, Vol II, pps 432-5
  2. Paul, James Balfour, Sir, 1846-1931 : The Scots Peerage : Founded On Wood's Ed. Of Sir Robert Douglas's Peerage Of Scotland; Containing An Historical And Genealogical Account Of The Nobility Of That Kingdom : Free Download, Borrow, And Streaming : Internet Archive". 2021. Internet Archive.Gratney, Earl of Mar, Vol V, pps 578-81
  3. Seton, Sir Bruce Gordon: The House Of Seton. A Study Of Lost Causes. 1939; 2021. Archive.Org.Christopher Seton, Vol I, pg 78
  4. Paul, James Balfour, Sir, 1846-1931 : The Scots Peerage : Founded On Wood's Ed. Of Sir Robert Douglas's Peerage Of Scotland; Containing An Historical And Genealogical Account Of The Nobility Of That Kingdom : Free Download, Borrow, And Streaming : Internet Archive". 2021. Internet Archive. Andrew Moray, Vol II, Pg 127-8
  5. Skene, Felix J.H. (ed). Liber Pluscardensis. Edinburgh: W. Paterson (1880), vol. 2, p. 190.
  6. Skene, Felix J.H. (ed). John of Fordun's Chronicle of the Scottish nation. Edinburgh: Edmonston and Douglas (1872), pp. 366-367.
  7. Skene, Felix J.H. (ed). Liber Pluscardensis. Edinburgh: W. Paterson (1880), vol. 2, p. 231.
  8. Dalrymple, David, Sir, 1726-1792 : Annals Of Scotland : From The Accession Of Malcolm III In The Year MLVII To The Accession Of The House Of Stewart In The Year MCCCLXXI, To Which Are Added, Tracts Relative To The History And Antiquities Of Scotland : Free Download, Borrow, And Streaming : Internet Archive". 2021. Internet Archive.Family of Seton, Vol II, pps 356-62

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Comments: 14

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I know. This is a mess. I have just completed Seton-206 and have begun (in horror) reviewing his immediate family members' profiles (#2 of your statement). I plan on tackling the Alexander issues in the near term, as currently working on Seton-206's wife. There is a great deal of genealogical confusion regarding the Seton pedigree and it has carried over into WT.
posted by Pamela Lohbeck
edited by Pamela Lohbeck
Thanks. Those 'silly suggestions about unmarried parents' dropped me into this mess.
Andrew's son William is probably connected to correct father because father and son are Lords of the same place, 'if' that is correct.
There are multiple children connected to this profile that have discrepancies with fathers, that are not connected as a spouse of this profile, so some of them are probably incorrect:

1. 2 children are connected to a different Andrew Murray (bef.1284-1332) as their father, than the one that is connected as a spouse. Either the father or the mother is incorrect on the profiles of William Murray (-1352) and Margaret Moray (1318-1364).

2. There are 2 Alexander children Alexander Seton Knt (1252-1332) and Alexander Seton (abt.1290-1348) that are connected to different fathers, both named Christopher. The 2nd Alexander is connected to the Christopher, who is connected as a spouse.

Hi Linda and Pamela, Great catch on this.

It seems plainly obvious that if Christopher and Christian married c 1304/6, that there could not be a son born in 1294, for starters. And Medlands also says that Christian appears to be past child-bearing age by the time of her marriage to Andrew Moray I am adding Medlands citations for all Christian's spouses, and are an interesting read.

posted by David Urquhart
So Lady Christina Bruce was born about 1273 (by your proof), and eventually married Andrew Moray in 1326 at age 53 (by your proof). And next she gave birth to four children by Andrew Moray? Why not add an "Unknown Lady Bothwell" as another spouse for Andrew. That would at least be believable.

To add more sloppy genealogy: You state Christian married Christopher Seton in 1306 yet you list two children named Alexander Seton. One of these was born in 1290 (16 years before the Seton marriage) and the other Alexander was born in 1252 (20 years before his mother was born).

I hope someone reads this one day.

posted by Fletcher Trice
edited by Fletcher Trice
Forgot to add...

Oxford Dictionary's take on Christina's m. to Domhnal Mar https://www.oxforddnb.com/view/10.1093/ref:odnb/9780198614128.001.0001/odnb-9780198614128-e-18021;jsessionid=3DD68B7E7F26A112A3056303AD955DC2

I don't like seeing this news. So am starting to read peerage (where I can find it) to find foundation of the complaint that she is never referred to as Lady/Countess of Mar, etc.

posted by b Paulson
news from up the street:

"Christina is sometimes thought to have also married Gartnait/Gratney, son of Donald, Earl of Mar (d. 1305). She is never described as a Countess of Mar, however, or even described as "of Mar". Moreover, there is no evidence of any familial relationship with Gartnait's son and successor, Donald II." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christina_Bruce

posted by b Paulson
Needs attention:

A child's birth date (Seton-233 born 1252) should not be before a parent is six years old (Bruce-3328 born 1273) .

posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
Agreed. But I have no idea how to fix it.
posted by Marc Cohen
1st marriage is likely incorrect
posted by Traci Thiessen
Bruce-3328 and Bruce-3598 do not represent the same person because: Two different people - father of one Christina is the son of the father of the other Christina. As with the others, close, but too many differences.
posted by Michael Thomas
Bruce-3328 and Bruce-3598 appear to represent the same person because: Same father's name, (different mother) same spouse, at least one child with the same name, Same approx dates. Worth a look.
posted by Anonymous Wasson
Brus-105 and Bruce-3328 appear to represent the same person because: same person, same parents, same spouses, same children, same time frame, same location

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