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Joan (Champernoun) Courtenay (aft. 1360 - 1419)

Joan Courtenay formerly Champernoun aka Champernowne, Chudleigh, Chudley
Born after in Devon, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Wife of — married before 1387 in Englandmap
Wife of — married 1403 in Castle,Powderham,Devon, Englandmap
Descendants descendants
Died before age 59 in St. Thomas, Devon, Englandmap
Profile last modified | Created 29 Nov 2011
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Medieval Project
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Biography

The following was excerpted from a post to SGM, 30 Jan 1999, by Ronny Bodine:

From: RBodine996 (rbodine996 AT aol.com) Subject: CHAMPERNOUN OF MODBURY, DEVONSHIRE - PART 2 of 2 Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval Date: 1999/01/30

GENERATION 5

11. JOAN CHAMPERNOUN. Died 1419. Vivian (p. 162) and Pole (Devon, p. 255, 256) both incorrectly call her the daughter of Alexander. At the inquisition of proof of age of her son, Philip de Courtenay, held at Tyuerton on 12 Feb 1424/5, John Colle, a witness to the baptism, who was a servant of Richard de Champernoun, kt. and was sent by him to Ashton to present the mother of Philip with a silver cup, refers to Richard Champernoun as "father of the mother of the infant" (Inq. 3 Hen VI, file 20 (50)). As the daughter of Sir Richard by his 1st wife, the evidence may be found in Ashton Church wherein is a crest of the Chudleighs under which are twenty-five coats of arms showing the various matrimonial alliances of the Chudleighs. Included among them are those of Champernoun and Astley (the latter being Azure, a cinquefoil ermine, RTDA, 31 [1899], p. 191-192, where it is identified as Ashley, but see CP, 1: 283, where the Astley arms are thus identified). She married 1stly, Sir James Chudleigh, died c1402; and 2ndly, c1403, Sir John Courtenay, who died before 1415 (CP, 4: 335).

Note: CP IV:335 is nothing but a chart which gives John's name, with no wife, dates, or other information, except that he is son of Philip, d. 1406, and father of another Philip, d. 1463.


Ancestral Roots, line 217-36, states that John Courtenay of Powderham, d. bef. 29 Jul 1406, m. Joan, daughter of Alexander Champernoun, and granddaughter of Richard Champernoun, while James Chudleigh m. Agnes Champernoun. There are other sources which differ on this as well.

Sources

Page: 217-36 Text: Agnes, daughter of Richard Champernoun

  • 2.Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com

Page: Ronny Bodine, 30 Jan 1999 Text: Joan, daughter of Richard Champernoun

  • 3.Title: Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, 7th Edition, by Frederick Lewis Weis, additions by Walter Lee Shippard Jr., 1999

Page: 217-36

  • 4.Title: Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, 7th Edition, by Frederick Lewis Weis, additions by Walter Lee Shippard Jr., 1999

Page: 217-36 Text: no date, 1st husband

  • 5.Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com

Page: Ronny Bodine, 30 Jan 1999 Text: no date, 1st husband

  • 6.Title: Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, 7th Edition, by Frederick Lewis Weis, additions by Walter Lee Shippard Jr., 1999

Page: 217-36 Text: by 1403/4

  • 7.Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com

Page: Ronny Bodine, 30 Jan 1999 Text: no date, 2nd husb.

The entry for Joan in Weis's Ancestral Roots shows that she was the daughter of Alexander Champernoun and the widow of James Chudleigh before marrying John Courtenay.





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Comments: 10

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Isaac, good comments/questions. Would you please start a G2G post with them and link to this profile? This is the only way to get a good discussion going to resolve your questions. Be sure to tag it with 'euroaristo'. Thanks.
We should resolve this Joan =/= Agnes (Ann) thing too.

It's interesting but non-conclusive that the Chudleigh armorial includes the Astley arms. First, those two families have been around a long time and may well have intermarried long before this era. Secondly, where's the proof Alice Astley was an heiress who brought the family arms (and lands etc) into her marriage with Sir Richard Champernowne; or an explanation for why the Astley "impalement" would survive that marriage and be passed into Chudleigh? Either the quarterings alluded (by the bio blurb, source unlcear??) in the Aston Church are proper heraldry, and can be researched definitively (as massive inheritances and titles were involved etc) or they are not, and are merely honoring various non-heiress moms and don't prove much.

posted by Isaac Taylor
Katherine et al, three notes:

1) please revisit Joan Champernoun's birth year. I'm seeing 1376 on Geni, for what it's worth.

2. Also, is her father actually Richard (who m. Alice Astley) as shown here, or Richard's son Alexander (who m. Joan Ferrers) as that would explain Joan Champernoun's given name. And probably force us to resolve her birthdate more precisely.

3. What's the rationale for labelling this family Champernoun, as opposed to Champernowne as used by recent and living descendants, e.g. notably Alan Turing's peer, mathematician and economist David Champernowne

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/1353993/Professor-David-Champernowne.html

I've seen the name spelled various Champernowne, Champernoun, Champernon and more... of these Champernowne seems the most English.

posted by Isaac Taylor
Liz, someone created a duplicate profile for one of the children & had an incorrect date. Thus the error message. I've merged the duplicates.
ps - I changed the CLN to Courtenay, since she married (1) Chudleigh, (2) Courtenay
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
upon saving, received the following automated message:
Warning: Check the data.
  • A mother's death date should not be before one of her children's birth dates.
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
update: Merge completed, added a Research Note about "Lady Ann" - source for that still needed.

Hi! The duplicate wife of John Courtenay shows as Joan. Could you add your source for her given name being Ann?

Thanks!

P.S. difference in given name is not a bar to merging the profiles. if you're saying John married sisters, that's different & you should reject the merge.

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
ty John for bringing this to my attention on the duplicate of profile
Champernowne-58 and Champernoun-21 appear to represent the same person because: These 2 profiles represent the same person based on family relationships, please merge them. Champernoun has sources and is probably the preferred LNAB
posted by John Atkinson
Champernon-2 and Champernoun-21 appear to represent the same person because: Please read the bio.
posted by [Living Horace]