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The following was excerpted from a post to SGM, 30 Jan 1999, by Ronny Bodine:
From: RBodine996 (rbodine996 AT aol.com) Subject: CHAMPERNOUN OF MODBURY, DEVONSHIRE - PART 2 of 2 Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval Date: 1999/01/30
GENERATION 5
11. JOAN CHAMPERNOUN. Died 1419. Vivian (p. 162) and Pole (Devon, p. 255, 256) both incorrectly call her the daughter of Alexander. At the inquisition of proof of age of her son, Philip de Courtenay, held at Tyuerton on 12 Feb 1424/5, John Colle, a witness to the baptism, who was a servant of Richard de Champernoun, kt. and was sent by him to Ashton to present the mother of Philip with a silver cup, refers to Richard Champernoun as "father of the mother of the infant" (Inq. 3 Hen VI, file 20 (50)). As the daughter of Sir Richard by his 1st wife, the evidence may be found in Ashton Church wherein is a crest of the Chudleighs under which are twenty-five coats of arms showing the various matrimonial alliances of the Chudleighs. Included among them are those of Champernoun and Astley (the latter being Azure, a cinquefoil ermine, RTDA, 31 [1899], p. 191-192, where it is identified as Ashley, but see CP, 1: 283, where the Astley arms are thus identified). She married 1stly, Sir James Chudleigh, died c1402; and 2ndly, c1403, Sir John Courtenay, who died before 1415 (CP, 4: 335).
Note: CP IV:335 is nothing but a chart which gives John's name, with no wife, dates, or other information, except that he is son of Philip, d. 1406, and father of another Philip, d. 1463.
Ancestral Roots, line 217-36, states that John Courtenay of Powderham, d. bef. 29 Jul 1406, m. Joan, daughter of Alexander Champernoun, and granddaughter of Richard Champernoun, while James Chudleigh m. Agnes Champernoun. There are other sources which differ on this as well.
Page: 217-36 Text: Agnes, daughter of Richard Champernoun
Page: Ronny Bodine, 30 Jan 1999 Text: Joan, daughter of Richard Champernoun
Page: 217-36
Page: 217-36 Text: no date, 1st husband
Page: Ronny Bodine, 30 Jan 1999 Text: no date, 1st husband
Page: 217-36 Text: by 1403/4
Page: Ronny Bodine, 30 Jan 1999 Text: no date, 2nd husb.
The entry for Joan in Weis's Ancestral Roots shows that she was the daughter of Alexander Champernoun and the widow of James Chudleigh before marrying John Courtenay.
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C > Champernoun | C > Courtenay > Joan (Champernoun) Courtenay
Categories: Medieval Project, England and Wales, needs relationship check | Medieval Project, England and Wales, needs biography
It's interesting but non-conclusive that the Chudleigh armorial includes the Astley arms. First, those two families have been around a long time and may well have intermarried long before this era. Secondly, where's the proof Alice Astley was an heiress who brought the family arms (and lands etc) into her marriage with Sir Richard Champernowne; or an explanation for why the Astley "impalement" would survive that marriage and be passed into Chudleigh? Either the quarterings alluded (by the bio blurb, source unlcear??) in the Aston Church are proper heraldry, and can be researched definitively (as massive inheritances and titles were involved etc) or they are not, and are merely honoring various non-heiress moms and don't prove much.
1) please revisit Joan Champernoun's birth year. I'm seeing 1376 on Geni, for what it's worth.
2. Also, is her father actually Richard (who m. Alice Astley) as shown here, or Richard's son Alexander (who m. Joan Ferrers) as that would explain Joan Champernoun's given name. And probably force us to resolve her birthdate more precisely.
3. What's the rationale for labelling this family Champernoun, as opposed to Champernowne as used by recent and living descendants, e.g. notably Alan Turing's peer, mathematician and economist David Champernowne
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/1353993/Professor-David-Champernowne.html
I've seen the name spelled various Champernowne, Champernoun, Champernon and more... of these Champernowne seems the most English.
Hi! The duplicate wife of John Courtenay shows as Joan. Could you add your source for her given name being Ann?
Thanks!
P.S. difference in given name is not a bar to merging the profiles. if you're saying John married sisters, that's different & you should reject the merge.