Adelaide Werra (Chalon) de Vermandois (abt. 933 - 967)

Born about 0933 in France

Ancestors

Wife of Robert (Vermandois) de Vermandois — married 0953 in Vermandois, , Normandie, France

Descendants

Died 19 Aug 0967 at about age 34 in Seltz, Alsace

Biography

Adelais Chalon was a member of the aristocracy in Europe.

Name

• Adélaïde alias Werra ^[1]
• Adelais "Wera" (b. 930/5).[4]
• Adela de Troyes[5]^[2]
• Countess of Vermandois and Meaux

Cawley discusses the alias Werra as a possible transcription error: "It is unclear why these two sources refer to the wife of Comte Robert by different names, as "Adelais comitisse" who signed the 959 charter must have been the same person as the wife of Robert named in 956 because the former document also refers to "Erberti filii eorum". It is possible that the reference to "Werram" is a transcription error as no other reference to this name has so far been found in other contemporary French sources." ^[3]

920 Birth and Parents

Her date and place of birth are unknown. ^[1] She married her husband sometime between 942, when she appears in a document unmarried, and 950, and when she appears married. Her husband was born about 931. Since he would be only 19 in 950, a marriage in the later part of the time period, say, 949, would appear reasonable.

If Adelais was 16 when she was married, and the marriage took place in 949, her estimated birth year would be 933.

Her father was Giselbert, duke of Burgundy, who died 8 April 956.^[1] Her mother was Ermengarde, who is known from the charter of 11 December 942. ^[1]

942 Charter to

Adélaïde appears in a charter with her parents on 11 December 942. ^[1]

Robert appears as a witness to a charter of Giselbert dated between 19 June 949 and 18 June 950. ^[1]

She signed along with her husband Robert and son Heribert in an act at Troyes on 6 August 959 ^[1]

She evidently survived her husband, and appears with Robert's brother count Heribert in a fragment of the cartulary of Montiéramey ^[1]

The identification as the same person of Adélaïde, daughter of Giselbert of Burgundy in the 942 document, Adélaïde, wife of Robert of Troyes in the 959 document, and Werra, the daughter of Giselbert who married Robert (from Odoran's chronicle, see below) is covered on Giselbert's page.^[1]

949 Marriage

She married Robert, count of Troyes.^[1] The marriage took place between 11 December 942 and 18 June 950. Her husband Robert, count of Meaux from 946 and count of TGroyes from 956, died after 19 June 966 ^[1]

She married, before 950, Robert de Vermandois, Comte de Meaux.[6]

He was the child of Adelaide De Vermandois^[4] who after 969 married Lambert //^[4]

967 Death and Burial

Adélaïde died probably after 19 June 966. She evidently survived her husband, who was still living on that date. ^[1]

Other sources state her death occurred on 19 AUG 967 in Vermandois. ^[5][6]

Her place of death is unknown. ^[1]

She was burried in the Abbaye Saint Aubin, Angers, Maine-et-Loire, France^[4]

Issue Old

Children named by Henry Project

1. [[Vermandois-351|Adelaide (Vermandois) d'Anjou, born Monfort, Normandy, 934 ^[7] Adèle, living 6 March 974, m. ca. 965, Geoffroy I Grisegonelle, d. 987, count of Anjou. ^[1]

1. [[Vermandois-274|Herbert III de Vermandois, born 950. Vermandois, Neustria ^[7] Heribert "juvenus", d. 28 January 995 or 996, count of Meaux and Troyes, 980×4-995×6. ^[1]

Children not named by Henry Project

#[[Bourgogne-360|Gerberge (Bourgogne) de Bourgogne, born Macon, date unknown. ^[7]

The following child has a birth date after her mother's death and has been de-linked. [[Châlons-40|Mathilde de Châlons, born 970, Chalon-sur-Marne. ^[7]

Issue

No documents attest to the birth years of any of the children. Their mother, Adelaide, born about 920, was not married in 942 (age 22) and was married by 950 (age 30) Robert was dead in 966. Wikitree ^[8] estimates Adele de Meaux's birth as early as 935. Cawley estimates a birth as early as 945. Their children are here assigned birth years at two year intervals beginning in 945.

Two Confirmed Children

Richardson notes that Robert and Adelais had two children, Heribert and Adele.^[9] Cawley reports four children, but Baldwin, with extensive discussion of why the second pair are dubious, confirms two children only, Heribert and Adele.

If the larger number is correct, Robert had two daughters with similar, often interchangeable names. For clarity here, the better documented of the daughters, shown here first, is addressed a Adele or Adela, while the other daughter, less well documented, is addressed as Adelais or Adelaide. This is simply a convenience for the modern reader, as both women appear with a range of overlapping names.

1. Heribert "juvenus", born, say, 945, died January 995 or 996, became count of Meaux and Troyes between 980 and 984 and continued as count until his death. ^[1][9] Wikipedia refers to him as Herbert III, Count of Meaux ^[8]Herbert III. Cawley refers to him as Heribert V "le Jeune" with birth between 945 and 950 and death between 995 and 996, Comte de Meaux et de Troyes from 983-985 until his death, husband of the daughter of Etienne/Stephanus, Comte de Gevaudon and Adelais d'Anjou. Cawley shows Heribert V buried in the Abbaye de Lagny-en-Mussien). ^[3]
2. Adèle or Adela de Meaux,^[9] born, say, 947. Cawley estimates a birth year of 950. ^[10] Cawley notes that she was long regarded as the sister of Robert but that recently, historian K.F. Werner showed that she is instead his daughter. ^[3] Cawley estimates a marriage year of 965 based on the birth year of her eldest daughter. ^[3] Adela de Meaux married, as his first wife, Geoffroy I, "Grisegonelle", count of Anjou, who died 987.^[1] Geoffroy was the son of Foulques II, Comte d'Anjou and his first wife Gerberge de Maine, who died in 987. ^[3] Adela was living 6 March 974 when she signed a charter ^[1] donating property to Saint-Aubin d'Angers and died after that date. ^[10] She should not be confused with Adelaide of Châlons, a different woman who was the first wife of Lambert and second wife of Geoffroy I after Adela's death.

Two Possible Children

Difficulties with properly identifying the persons in various documents has led to the supposition of one or more additional children of Robert. These two are listed by Cawley and continued to be linked on Wikitree.

1. Adelais de Troyes, born, say, 950. Baldwin refers to her as the unnamed wife of Charles, duke of Lorraine and notes that "This conjecture is based on a passage in Historia Francorum Senonensis, which states that Charles married a daughter of count Heribert of Troyes." ^[1] Cawley eliminates Heribert, son of Robert, born about 950, as too young to be Charles' father in law. Cawley also eliminates Héribert II Comte de Vermandois, father of Robert, who was not Comte de Troyes. ^[10] Baldwin notes that the same passage falsely makes Charles into a son of king Lothair, when he was in fact a brother ^[1] and adds that for chronological reasons, Settipani conjectures that this unnamed woman was instead a daughter of Robert ^[11] Cawley, following Settipani's conjecture, makes Charles' unnamed wife to be Adelais de Troyes, born between 950 and 951, died after 991), a second daughter of Robert with a name similar to the first, who married about 970 Charles de France, son of Louis IV "d'Outremer" King of the Franks & his wife Gerberga von Sachsen. ^[3]
2. Archambaud, born, say, 952. Cawley states that according to Gallia Christiana, Archambaud Archbishop of Sens was the son of Robert Comte de Troyes and his wife Adelais de Bourgogne. ^[10] Cawley also notes that the chronology is unfavourable for this parentage to be correct. ^[10] While placing Archambaud in this family, Cawley notes that the name Archambaud is not otherwise found in the family of the comtes de Vermandois, which also suggests that the suggested parentage might not be correct.] ^[10] Baldwin notes that this supposed son has been assigned to Robert by a number of sources, but that since Archambaud's father Robert is not clearly identified, the suggestion that he was the same person as Robert of Troyes is uncertain at best. Baldwin notes that neither Werner nor Settipani include Archambaud among Robert's children ^[1] Archambaud was Archbishop of Sens from 959-968. ^[3] Cawley notes that although stated to be “iuvenis” when he died, Archambaud must have been a young child when installed as archbishop if the estimated dates of marriage and birth of the members of Comte Robert’s family are correct. His extreme youth at the time of his appointment is not commented on in the sources so far consulted. ^[10] He died 29 Aug 968, and was buried at Sens Saint-Pierre-le-Vif). ^[3]

One Doubtful Child

• Ermentrude. A daughter Ermentrude, birth year unknown, died 1003, has previously been linked as a daughter of Robert. No source material confirming such a relationship has been found and she has therefore been removed as a daughter of Robert. If documentation for the relationship is found, the linkage can easily be restored.

Sources

1. ↑ ^{1.00 1.01 1.02 1.03 1.04 1.05 1.06 1.07 1.08 1.09 1.10 1.11 1.12 1.13 1.14 1.15 1.16 1.17 1.18 1.19 1.20} The Henry Project Compiled by Stewart Baldwin, first uploaded 24 April 2008, Based on the following bibliography:
   • Bib. Hist. Yonne = Louis-Maximilien Duru, ed., Bibliothèque historique de l'Yonne, 2 vols., (Auxerre & Paris, 1850-63).
   • Cart. Montiéramey = Charles Lalore, ed., Cartulaire de l'abbaye de Montiéramey (Collection des principaux cartulaires du diocèse de Troyes, 7, Paris & Troyes, 1890).
   • Lot (1891) = Ferdinand Lot, Les derniers Carolingiens (Paris, 1891).
   • RHF = Recueil des historiens des Gaules et de la France.
   • Werner (1960) = Karl Ferdinand Werner, "Untersuchungen zur Frühzeit des französischen Fürstentums (9.-10. Jahrhundert): V. Zur Geschichte des Hauses Vermandois", Die Welt als Geschichte 20 (1960): 87-119.
   • Accessed March 18, 2017. jhd
2. ↑ John Morby, Dynasties of the World: a chronological and genealogical handbook (Oxford, Oxfordshire, U.K.: Oxford University Press, 1989), page 85.
3. ↑ ^{3.0 3.1 3.2 3.3 3.4 3.5 3.6 3.7}
4. ↑ ^{4.0 4.1 4.2} GEDCOMS (see changes).[1]
5. ↑ Geni (see changes.[2]
6. ↑ FamilySearch (see changes).[3]
7. ↑ ^{7.0 7.1 7.2 7.3} WikiTree Datafield, not otherwise sourced. This footnote is a placeholder until a better source can be found.
8. ↑ ^{8.0 8.1} No source found in the Change log for 'wiki'
9. ↑ ^{9.0 9.1 9.2} No source found in the Changes Log named 'ra5485'
10. ↑ ^{10.0 10.1 10.2 10.3 10.4 10.5 10.6} Charles Cawley. Foundation for Medieval Genealogy. Medieval Land Database, Champagne - Troyes. Robert Accessed June 6, 2017. jhd
11. ↑ Settipani (1993), 337-8, n. 1010, cited by Stewart Baldwin, Henry Project.

See also:

• La Prehistoire des Capetiens, p. 232, Author Settipani, Christian, Publisher: ??: Villeneuve d'Ascq, Repository Family History Library (FHL)(ref name="A3")
• Europaische Stammtafeln: Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der europaischen Staaten. Neue Folge, Band 1.1 Tafel 7, Author Schwennicke, Detlev Publisher Marburg: Verlag von J. A. Stargardt, c1978-1995 (v. 1-16) -- Frankfurt am Main: Vittorio Klostermann, c1998- Medieval Families bibliography #552. Repository Family History Library (FHL)(ref name="A3")
• Histoire de la maison royale de France anciens barons du royaume: et des grands officiers de la couronne [Genealogical and chronological history of the royal house of France], vol. 1 p. 49, Author Saint-Marie, Anselme de Publisher 3rd edition. 9 volumes. 1726. Reprint Paris: Editions du Palais Royal, 1967-1968 Repository Family History Library (FHL)(ref name="A3")
• Ancestral File Number: 9GB2-G0, FamilySearch.org
• MEDIEVAL LANDS: A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families by Charles Cawley © Foundation for Medieval Genealogy & Charles Cawley 2000-2018.