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Mary (Bruce) de Tony (1260 - aft. 1283)

Mary de Tony formerly Bruce aka de Brus, de Bruce
Born in Scotlandmap
Daughter of [father unknown] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Wife of — married before 1276 [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died after after age 23 in Flamstead, Hertfordshire, Englandmap
Problems/Questions Profile manager: Robin Wood private message [send private message]
Profile last modified | Created 10 Jun 2015
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Biography

Mary (Bruce) de Tony is a member of House of Bruce.
European Aristocracy
Mary Bruce was a member of the aristocracy in British Isles.

Note: Per Douglas Richardson in Royal Ancestry 2013 Vol. V p. 176, the surname of Mary, wife of Ralph de Tony, was unknown. Noted on page 176 as: Ralph married before 1276 Mary ____.

Parentage Unknown

Mary de Brus was born at Scotland; Relationship to the Brus family is suggested, but not proved:[1][2][3][4]

Some accounts show Mary as the daughter of Humphrey de Bohun and his wife Eleanor de Brewes. No documentation has been found for such a relationship.

Douglas Richardson in Royal Ancestry shows four children only, none named Mary, issuing from the marriage of Humphrey and Eleanor:

  1. Humphrey (VII), Knt [7th Earl of Hereford, 8th Earl of Essex]. Son and Heir of Humphrey de Bohun and Eleanor de Brewes. [5]
  2. Gilbert, Knt, Son of Humphrey de Bohun and Eleanor de Brewes. [5]
  3. Eleanor Daughter of Humphrey de Bohun and Eleanor de Brewes. [5]
  4. Margery (or Margaret). Daughter of Humphrey de Bohun and Eleanor de Brewes. [5]

Kathryn Warner, an historian who authored Edward II states of Alice de Toeni that "her mother Mary's parentage is unknown."[6]

Dear Newsgroup, Douglas Richardson and John Ravilious have postulated that Mary , wife of Ralph VII , Baron of Toeni was a Brus based on the fact that Sir Richard de Brus, a son of Robert VI de Brus by Isabel de Clare was granted Ralph VII de Toeni`s guardianship and marriage and also because Mary gave birth to Robert de Toeni in April, 1276 at Turnberry Castle, Scotland which had been in the hands of Robert VII de Brus since 1273 when He married Margaret / Marjorie, eldest daughter and heir to Neil, Earl of Carrick d 1256 who according to AR 7 line 121 C generation 30 citing SP II pp 426-27 is said to have been one of four daughters. As Turnberry Castle belonged to the Earls of Carrick rather than the Brus family (see Alan Young : Robert Bruce`s Rivals: The Comyns , 1212-1314 p 97) Thus the possibility exists that Mary Toeni was Mary of Carrick, which was a cadet line of the Lords of Galloway ( AR 7 121 C) rather than Mary Brus. Sincerely, James W Cummings Dixmont, Maine USA

Sources

  1. Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry, p. 712-713.
  2. Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. IV, p. 201-202.
  3. Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. V, p. 174-175.
  4. Richardson, in footnote 11 on page 176 in Royal Ancestry, volume IV, notes that circumstantial evidence suggests that "the possibility exists that Mary de Tony was the sister of Richard and Robert de Brus [sons of Robert de Brus and Isabel, daughter of Gilbert de Clare]. Conclusive evidence of Mary's parentage, however, is lacking."
  5. 5.0 5.1 5.2 5.3 Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, I:409-418.
  6. Kathryn Warner, "Alice de Toeni and Juliana de Leyburne" Edward the Second Blogspot, 17 March, 2007

Douglas Richardson. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham (Salt Lake City: the author, 2013), volume V, pages 175-178 TONY 9.





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Comments: 8

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If there is a pre 1500 certified person out there can they remove the surname, my own fault but I was happily adding full details to my tree then realised, I didn’t read the bio first, from another genealogy site and Richardson her details were unverified. (Robin did ask for the correction in 2017! I still don’t understand why profile manager’s cannot be certified, if they are trusted to manage they should be allowed to correct).
posted by Malc Rowlands
Hola Robin, Darrell... what's the deal here?

Is this merely Pre-1500 credential victim? Or is there a dispute? Looks like we are stalled out for four years now.

posted by Isaac Taylor
I agree should be unknown, can someone authorisedfor pore 1500 do the task of editing the surnam as suggested
posted by Robin Wood C.Eng
After reading the discussion I have a question. Why isn't her maiden name listed as unknown instead of Bruce?
posted by Susan (Knight) Gore
A daughter of a Bruce?????

Presumably this should be disconnected.

Please comment if you have proof.

posted by James McDonald
Mary's surname (LNAB) should now be changed to unknown!
posted by Jack Day
Following discussion on G2G, I researched the issue of Humphrey de Bohun and his wife Eleanor and could not find a daughter named Mary. This is corroborated by other historians who list Mary as parentage unknown. I've therefore taken the liberty of disconnecting Mary from Humphrey and Eleanor as parents. If documentation of the relationship turns up, re-attaching her will be simple!
posted by Jack Day
There seems to be no evidence such a woman as Mary Clarissa Brus existed. Cawley in the Medieval Lands database lists the wife of Raoul VII de Tosny as Mary (surname unknown). http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3T-Z.htm#_Toc389115895

And the Complete Peerage, 2nd ed. vol 12, pt 1, p. 773 also just has her as Mary (surname unknown), though it does state 'it seems likely she was a Scotswoman" but again there is nothing to link her back to the Bruce/Brus family.

posted by John Atkinson

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Categories: Flamstead, Hertfordshire | House of Bruce