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Despite many claims, the parentage of Alys/Alice is not known. Alice Perkins is often claimed online and in unsourced secondary sources to be Alice de Astley.[1][2][3] There is no proof found for these claims. See research notes, below.
Alice's date of birth, place of birth and parents are unknown. Her birth year is estimated to be about 1475, based on the estimated birth dates of her children (about 1500). Her birth place is also a guess: it is listed above as Hillmorton, Warwickshire, because that was the place she was buried. She may very well have been born elsewhere.
Alice married Thomas Perkins, probably about 1500 based on their children's estimated births. Exactly when and where they married is unknown.
What is known about Thomas Perkins and his wife Alys comes from their wills. Thomas left a will dated 3 April 1528 and proved 21 April 1528.[4] Alice's will was proved 15 October 1538[5][6] (dated 31 July 1538).[7][8] In their wills, Thomas and Alice named their three children. By the time Alice made her will, her daughters were married.[5] Their children were:
Possible child of the couple:
Thomas and Alys likely died in Hillmorton, Warwickshire, where both of their wills directed burial. No burial record is found for either of them.
In St. John the Baptist Church at Hillmorton Parish, in the side aisle, on the right facing the altar, are life-sized effigies of Thomas and Edith de Astley who lived in the 14th century. According to the Vicar of St. John they are the forebears of Alice de Astley who is said to have married Thomas Perkins, whose will directed that he "be buried in the Church of St. John the Baptist before the Rood."[6] There is no source given for which Vicar stated this and when, nor any basis for how he would have that knowledge.
Dugdale writing in the 17th century described a grave and inscription found in the Church of St. John, Hillmorton at this time. "In the middle ile of this Church are two gravestones of marble, each of them having small portraitures in brass of a man and a woman, with divers children; on one of them is this Inscription: Here lyeth Thomas Perkins and Alice and Elizabeth, Our Lord save their souls from everlasting death. Amen."[9] This memorial, however, may refer to Thomas' grandson Thomas, who also had a wife named Alice;[5] however they did not have a known daughter, Elizabeth.
A modern survey says that the church was extensively restored in the 18th century, the majority of the flooring is now parquet. There are no recorded floor memorials in the church today. This same survey describes the Astley effigies as "the defaced figure of a knight, probably Thomas de Astley, and a woman, probably his wife Margaret".[10]
The will of Alice Perkins of Hillmorton reads as follows:[2][5][6]
The basis for the claim Alice was born into the Astley family is unknown despite much research and is likely incorrect. There are no wills, no baptisms, no marriage records, no contemporary pedigrees and no land records to suggest that she belongs to the Astley family of Hillmorton, Warwickshire. There are only two records in which she appears - the will of her husband (where she is called Alys) and her own will (where she is called Alice). There is nothing about these wills to even slightly suggest Alice was a member of the Astley family, who were still lords of the manor of Hillmorton in the early 16th century. In fact, the opposite is true as Thomas Perkins appears to have belonged to an entirely different social class.
Specifically among the claims made, Alice has been said to be a daughter of Thomas Astley of Patshull by his wife Margaret Butler. There is no evidence that this Thomas Astley had a daughter Alice, he lived in the wrong part of England, and was much too prominent for him to have had a daughter marry to Thomas Perkins.
It is also sometimes found that she was a daughter of Robert Astley and his wife Cecily. There is no evidence to support this.
Other trees claim that she was descended from Ralph De Ashley born about 1260. The basis for this claim is unknown despite much research and is likely incorrect.
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[Do you know Alice's family name?] | P > Perkins > Alys (Unknown) Perkins
Categories: Hillmorton, Warwickshire | Saint John the Baptist Church, Hillmorton, Warwickshire | Estimated Birth and Marriage Date
It is true that the only information I can identify and document is indirect and circumstantial evidence. Thomas and Alice Perkins apparently had enough pull to get themselves buried in the centre isle of a church which which had been supported by the Astley family for over 200 years. The church had beautiful (at least at one time) life sized statues in remembrance of an Astley Knight and his Lady. There are inscriptions in memorials commemorating Thomas Perkins, Alice and a daughter Elizabeth. And lastly, the Vicar of the church says that this Alice was Alice de Astley. This is not proof but do I "suspect" her LNAB was (perhaps) Astley.
None of the PM’s participated in the G2G discussion so I have no clue why the name was changed to "Unknown". The Biography is an even more confusing mess than before. It explains nothing and the claim that the most recent sources are wrong is unproven. Have there been private communications that urged you to make this change? Is there a change in WikiTree policy? Are "suspected" names allowed or not allowed?
It seems obvious that the PM’s were listening to someone. What bothers me is that I was encouraged to take this journey on their behalf and have never heard from them again. You have done your job well and I hope it turns out well for WikiTree.
I believe that our convention is to eliminate prefixes in names like hers so it is hard to understand why Alice is the only remaining "de Astley" on WikiTree. Could a manager please change her LNAB to "ASTLEY".
http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p52.htm#i1549 says Robert had this Alys.
If you accept that Alys is Roberts daughter, Through the Witchingham conection you can go back to Royalty.
British History Online Melton Constable says, "(Thomas de Astley) had John his son and heir, who took to wife Elizabeth, daughter of Sir Edward Witchingham; by his will, dated April 8, 1475, (fn. 5) and proved June 23 following, it appears that he had 2 sons, Thomas and (cont)
Find a Grave (https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=50051948) shows that Alys and her husband Thomas Perkins are buried under the aisles of the Church of St. John the Baptist in Hillmorton. Ralph's father Thomas' effigy and sarcophagus are also in this church. British History Online (http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/warks/vol6/pp108-114#h3-0002) states that Ralph was the ancestor of everyone in the Astley family which held the manor at Hillmorton in direct descent down to the end of the 18th century. Ralph's son Thomas was lord of Morton cum membris in 1316. Sometime after this the manor was apparently held by the junior branch of the Astley family as the senior branch settled at Astley near Coventry. The senior line went extinct sometime after 1387.
Sir Thomas D' Astley who married Edith Constable died at the battle of Evesham in the 1265. He is not the father of the Alice who married Thomas Perkins in Hillmorton. The D'Astley family left Hillmorton when one of the sons married an heiress in Norfolk. They still owned it but the family seat was in Norfolk.