Maud (Grey) de Harcourt
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Maud (Grey) de Harcourt (abt. 1347 - 1394)

Maud de Harcourt formerly Grey aka Botetourt
Born about in Rotherfield Greys, Oxfordshire, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Wife of — married about 28 Nov 1358 [location unknown]
Wife of — married before 13 Jun 1374 in Rotherfield, Oxfordshire, Englandmap
Descendants descendants
Died at about age 47 in Stanton Harcourt, Oxfordshire, Englandmap
Problems/Questions Profile managers: Darlene Athey-Hill private message [send private message] and Robin Wood private message [send private message]
Profile last modified | Created 28 Jan 2015
This page has been accessed 9,006 times.

Contents

Biography

This profile is part of the Gray Name Study.

Maud Grey was was the daughter of John Grey, 1st Lord Grey of Rotherfield, and Avice Marmion.[1] Her father served as Steward of the King's Household.

Lipscombe's 1847 pedigree for 'Grey of Rotherfield,' asserts that her mother was Catherine, daughter and coheiress of Brian FitzAlan of Bedale, co. York. The same chart shows that her father was also married to Avice Marmion.[2]

Marriages and Children

Maud married twice. Her first husband was John Botetourt.[1] They married 28 November 1358. John was the son of Sir John Botetourt, 2nd Lord Botetourt, and Joyce la Zouche. Maud and John had one son and one daughter:

  • John
  • Joyce, wife of Sir Hugh Burnell, 2nd Lord Burnell.

Maud remarried to Sir Thomas Harcourt[1] before 13 June 1374. He served as the Sheriff of Oxfordshire, and was the son of Sir William Harcourt, and Jane de Grey. Maud and Thomas had three sons and four daughters:

  • John[1]
  • Sir Thomas, born about 1377, died 6 July 1420, married Jane (or Joan) Fraunceys and had eight children[1]
  • Richard, of Saredon[1]
  • Anne, wife of Thomas, Esq., 4th Lord Erdington[1]
  • Katherine[1]
  • Isabel[1]
  • Maud, died before Sep 1414, wife of Walter Cokesey (or Cooksey), Esq., and of Sir John Philip (or Phelip)[1]

Maud Grey died on 29 January 1394. Sge was buried in an altar tomb at Stanton Harcourt, Oxfordshire. [3]

Research Notes

Marriages

Maud Grey, daughter of John Grey, Baron Grey of Rotherfield, is shown in Lipscombe's (1847), 'pedigree of Bottetourt' as a wife of John Botetourt (husband of Joyce le Zouche),[4] but Magna Carta Ancestry (2011), states that she married his son.
Lipscombe's (1847), pedigree for 'Grey of Rotherfield,' shows that Maud had two husbands:[5] John Botetourt and Thomas de Harcourt (d. 1386).

Sources

  1. 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 1.7 1.8 1.9 Douglas Richardson. Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 4 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. 2nd edition. (Salt Lake City, UT: the author, 2011), vol. II, pages 344-345, HARCOURT 7.
  2. Grey of Rotherfield, (Lipscomb, 1847). Wikitree.com: pedigree.
  3. See images of tomb on flickr taken by Aidan McRae Thomson [1]
  4. Lipscombe, G. (1847). "Pedigree of Bottetourt, Barons of Newport Pagnell & c.," in The History and Antiquities of the County of Buckingham, 4, p. 276. Google Books.
  5. Grey of Rotherfield, (Lipscomb, 1847). Wikitree.com. pedigree.
  • Richardson, Douglas. Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 4 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. 2nd edition. Salt Lake City, UT: the author, 2011. See also WikiTree's source page for Magna Carta Ancestry.
  • Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. Salt Lake City, UT: the author, 2013. See also WikiTree's source page for Royal Ancestry.
See also:
  • Lewis, Marlyn. Maud Grey #13872 entry in Our Royal, Titled, Noble, and Commoner Ancestors, citing various works by Douglas Richardson.
    • Richardson, D. (2011). Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd ed., I, p. 269.
    • Richardson, D. (2011). Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd ed, II, p. 344.
    • Richardson, D. (2011). Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd ed., III, p. 270-272.
    • Richardson, D. (2013). Royal Ancestry, I, p. 459.
    • Richardson, D. (2013). Royal Ancestry, II, p. 37-8.
    • Richardson, D. (2013). Royal Ancestry, III, p. 208.
    • Richardson, D. (2013). Royal Ancestry, IV, p. 273-276.
  • Weis, Frederick Lewis, Th.D., The Magna Carta Sureties, 1215. 5th Edition. (Baltimore MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1999). Available at Amazon.com.




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Comments: 10

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Here Maud is called Alice.

Nichols, John, F.S.A., ( 1811).,The history and antiquities of the county of Leicester: Vol. 4, Part 2. (Containing Sparkenhoe Hundred). Pedigree of Harcourt, Market Bosworth. London: J. Nichols. Retrieved from Special Collections: University of Leicester [p.144;) Accessed 19 Dec 2022.

Thanks, Frances. As you will know, these old published pedigrees need to be treated with considerable caution. This profile is in the long queue of profiles managed by the Magna Carta Project that need an overhaul. When we are able to turn to it, we can check things out. But if anyone wants to do so earlier, great.
posted by Michael Cayley
Yes, right.

I'm sure she was called Maud - but I thought it would be useful to mention this pedigree reference to a different name for the sake of information. I wonder where the pedigree got the name 'Alice' from.

I was randomly wandering through profiles and I found one for Catherine Harcourt, that lists her parents in the bio (not sourced and untouched since it was created in 2016) as Thomas I Harcourt, and Maud de Gray. I’ve included the ID for further investigation. Catherine Harcourt
posted by Sarah Grimaldi
Hi Sarah, nice find! Thanks for pointing out that profile. It is unfortunately unsourced, but this profile of Maud's does mention a daughter Catherine. I've attached Maud and Thomas Harcourt as parents to her.
Anybody know the reason why Richardson has her mother as Avice Marmion? Did he talk about it on soc.medieval.genealogy at all?
posted by [Living Ogle]
Bree, in a post of 10 Dec 2003 by Chris Phillips on soc.genealogy.medieval, Chris said, "From our previous discussion in October, it appeared that the account of Botetourt in the Complete Peerage (ii 235) was wrong in giving Grey wives to both John de Botetourt, Lord Botetourt (d. 1385), and his son John de Botetourt (d. 1369). Only the younger John married a Grey - Maud, the daughter of John de Grey of Rotherfield. But we didn't uncover any decisive contemporary evidence to determine whether Maud was he daughter of the first Lord Grey of Rotherfield (d. 1359), by his second wife, Avice Marmion, or of the second Lord Grey (d. 1375) - as stated by CP.

We had seen that Maud was commemorated by an "elaborate" tomb at Stanton Harcourt, but hadn't been able to find a detailed description, and according to Pevsner the heraldry on the tomb was modern.

Yesterday I had a chance to look at a small book by George Simon, Earl Harcourt (d. 1809), entitled "An Account of the Church and Remains of the Manor House of Stanton Harcourt in the County of Oxford" (1808). This includes (pp. 8, 9) a description of Maud's tomb, which I've copied below in case it's of interest to anyone. Genealogically, the important thing is that four shields of arms are described - Harcourt; Harcourt impaling Grey; Grey; Marmion.

Further to this, on p. 13 is a description of a monument in the Harcourt Chapel, to Sir Robert Harcourt (d. 1471) and his wife Margaret (Byron), in which the heraldry is described as follows: "On the front, four spread six foils, containing shields with the following arms; namely, Harcourt impaling Byron twice, and twice Marmion; which Maud Grey, his grandmother, bore in right of her mother, heiress of the Marmions."

From the appearance of the Marmion arms on these monuments, it seems clear that Maud was the daughter of John, first Lord Grey of Rotherfield, by his second wife Avice Marmion (and not of his son, John, by his first marriage).

Incidentally, this removes any possible conflict with Rosie Bevan's suggestion that Maud, wife of Ralph Hastings, could have been a daughter of the younger John de Grey, as in the light of Maud de Harcourt's parentage this would not require John to have had two daughters named Maud.

Earl Harcourt's description of Maud's monument: "The ancient monument under an arch in the south wall of the chancel is that of Maud, daughter of John Lord Grey of Rotherfield, by his second wife, Avice, daughter and co-heiress of John Lord Marmion, (which Maud, with her two brothers, assumed the name and arms of Marmion,) wife of Sir Thomas de Harcourt, son of Sir William and of Johanna, daughter of Richard Lord Grey of Codnor. She died in the 17th year of Richard II. She has the reticulated head-dress, with a narrow gold binding across the forehead : a scarlet mantle lined with ermine, and a deep cape of the same, scolloped at the edge, on either side of which are two small gold tassels : a broad band of ermine, with a narrow gold binding across the breasts : the upper part of the sleeves of the same ; the lower part blue, and reaching to the knuckles, like mittens. On the surcoat, the arms of Harcourt impaled with those of Grey. Those parts both of the arms and of the dress which are blue are damasked. At her feet a small dog. On the front of the monument four shields, with the following arms ; namely, Harcourt; Harcourt impaling Grey; Grey; Marmion.

Douglas Richardson responded to Chris' post: Dear Chris ~ Nice work. This is a great example of how heraldic evidence at ancient tombs can solve a genealogical problem. Thanks for sharing your research with all of us. Much appreciated.

If there is any problem with my adding an appropriate coat of arms to a woman's profile, I'll start (or resurrect, if I can find it) a G2G thread. The earlier discussion was ambiguous, and since then I've learned that women used their father's arms on clothes, seals, and tombs. The shield form isn't strictly accurate, of course, but the alternative is using nothing. I see this as analogous to some of the naming conventions, where some sort of compromise is necessary. In my opinion, seeing the arms on the five-generation charts is both helpful and visually appealing.
posted by [Living Schmeeckle]

Rejected matches › Maud Basset (abt.1276-1335)

G  >  Grey  |  D  >  de Harcourt  >  Maud (Grey) de Harcourt

Categories: Rotherfield Greys, Oxfordshire, Gray Name Study