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Katherine (Debnam) Jones (1626 - abt. 1686)

Katherine Jones formerly Debnam aka Taliaferro
Born in Igtham, Kent, Englandmap
Daughter of and
Sister of , , and [half]
Wife of — married about 1653 (to 20 Nov 1672) in Virginiamap
Wife of — married 1672 [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Mother of , , , , , , , and
Died about at about age 60 in Gloucester, Virginiamap
Problems/Questions Profile managers: Thurman Jackson private message [send private message], Nancy Rossy private message [send private message], US Southern Colonies Project WikiTree private message [send private message], Mary Elizabeth Stewart private message [send private message], Walter Smith private message [send private message], and Kyle Sell private message [send private message]
Profile last modified | Created 8 Apr 2016
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Do NOT merge with Sarah Grymes, they are not the same person

As discussed on her husband Robert Taliaferro's profile, this woman's name was not "Sara(h)", it was Katherine, and the Rev. Grymes was not her father, but her step-father.
US Southern Colonies.
Katherine (Debnam) Jones resided in the Southern Colonies in North America before 1776.
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Contents

Biography

Katherine was born in 1626 in Igtham, Kent, England. She was the daughter of William Debnam and Katherine Jennings. She was the step-daughter of Rev. Charles Grymes, who married her mother after her father died.[1]

Some sources list Sarah or Katherine Grymes as the wife of Robert Taliaferro. This is an apparent mix up with her mother Katherine.

Only one certain reference to her is known in primary sources, a 1672 land grant to "Mrs. Katherine Taliaferro" for the head rights of Robert Taliaferro (apparently then deceased).[2] Due to a mistake in a secondary source over a century ago, Robert Taliaferro's wife was at one time identified as Sarah Grymes,[3] and consequently many modern tertiary sources go to great lengths to construct elaborate theories explaining the discrepancy.[4] There is, however, no basis for the given name Sarah in primary sources.

Robert Taliaferro married Katherine Debnam (Dedman) about 1655 in Hampton Parish, York County, Virginia.
the National Society; Sons and Daughters of the Pilgrims [1]

lists - Taliaferro; Robert - birth 11 Nov 1626 - death c1677/1700 - married Katherine Grymes Note that middle name (not first name) is recorded as Sarah by familysearch.org. All indications are that she was not the aforementioned "Sarah Grimes" so please do not merge.

Birth

1625 Igtham, Kent, England[5][6][7][8]

Marriage

1653 VA[5][6][7] Wife of Cadwallader Jones — married December 1687 in Stafford, Stafford, Virginia, United States

Death

BET 1669 AND 1729 VA[5][6]

1672-11 Gloucester, Virginia

1687 Rappahannock, Virginia

Katherine died about 1667 in Gloucester County, VA.

Research Notes

Project Maintenance

Needs Research- As reflected below, Nicklin's article in the Virginia Historical Magazine identifies Katherine's last name at birth as "Dedman" or "Deadman" -- not "Debnam" -- and identifies her parents as "Henry Deadman" and "Katherine," Henry's widow who remarried to Rev. Charles Grymes -- not William Debnam and Katherine Frances (__). It is difficult to tell from the sources cited in this profile what the basis is for the Debnam claims. Need to reconcile these claims. Full cite to the VMHB article is:

John Bailey Calvert Nicklin, “Deadman-Grymes-Taliaferro,” The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography 56 (1948): 208-210; digital image, JSTOR (https://www.jstor.org/stable/4245546 : accessed 21 Jun 2021).

The author of that note apparently published a more detailed discussion in Volume 21 of Tyler's Quarterly at pps. 83-84.

Additional Notes

According to CHARLES TALIAFERRO Sr,. author of THE TALIAFERRO FAMILY THREE CENTURIES IN AMERICA , 1998: "Very little is known of the life of ROBERT TALIAFERRO and the small amount that is known is taken from scattered land records. One VERY IMPORTANT item concerning the history of ROBERT TALIAFERRO is the CORRECT NAME OF HIS WIFE. The correct name of his wife is disputed among historians and genealogists.The dispute is not who his wife was, but her exact name. In all sources, relating to the early family, the name is shown being 'SARAH GRYMES daughter of Rev. CHARLES GRYMES."

He goes on to say: In the VIRGINIA MAGAZINE, Vol. 56, pages 208 -210, in an article written by Mr. JOHN BAILEY CALVERT NICKLIN, appears a version of the correct name of ROBERT TALIAFERRO. Mr. NICKLIN quotes several legal documents and he ends with the expressed opinion that the wife of ROBERT TALIAFERRO was KATHERINE DEDMAN, daughter of KATHERINE and HENRY DEDMAN; that the widow of HENRY DEDMAN later married Rev. CHARLES GRYMES; thereby making KATHERINE DEDMAN [daughter of KATHERINE and HENRY DEDMAN] the step daughter of Rev. CHARLES GRYMES."

Sources

  1. ↑ Taliferro/Tolliver Records on Archive.org
  2. ↑ Rappahannock County Deed Book 5 , p. 99
  3. ↑ "Taliaferro Family." The William and Mary Quarterly 20, no. 4 (1912): 266-71. doi:10.2307/1919335.
  4. ↑ "Historic Georgia Families," by L.W. Rigsby; Genealogical Publishing Company; 1969.
  5. ↑ 5.0 5.1 5.2 stanjoy.FTW
  6. ↑ 6.0 6.1 6.2 TUREL.FTW
  7. ↑ 7.0 7.1 U.S. and International Marriage Records, 1560-1900 Publication: Name: Online publication - Provo, UT, USA: The Generations Network, Inc., 2004., 2931.001; Family group sheet, FGSE, listed as parents; Number of Pages: 1;
  8. ↑ U.S. and International Marriage Records, 1560-1900 Publication: Online publication - Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2004

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DNA Connections
It may be possible to confirm family relationships with Katherine by comparing test results with other carriers of her mitochondrial DNA. Mitochondrial DNA test-takers in the direct maternal line: It is likely that these autosomal DNA test-takers will share some percentage of DNA with Katherine:

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Comments: 21

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McClain-3310 Scott McClain
Does anyone know what the two "stanjoy.FTW" and "TUREL.FTW" refer to? I assume this is someone's private FamilyTree maker file output, but that file name alone does not provide any useful information about the source. If there is an actual source in this FamilyTree maker tree then we should substitute the actual source.
posted by Scott McClain
Munn-123 Debra Munn
For some reason I was unable to fix the typo regarding Katherine's place of birth. It should be Ightham, Kent, England.
posted by Debra Munn
McClain-3310 Scott McClain
I just tried too. It seems to be caused by the Data error of unmatched REF tags, but I can't figure out where they are. Any Data Doctor helps following this? Help please!
posted by Scott McClain
McClain-3310 Scott McClain
This profile appears to need some work. As reflected in the Research Notes, the Virginia Historical Magazine article identifies Katherine's last name at birth as "Dedman" or "Deadman" -- not "Debnam" -- and identifies her parents as "Henry Deadman" and "Katherine," Henry's widow who remarried to Rev. Charles Grymes -- not William Debnam and Katherine Frances (__). It is difficult to tell from the sources cited in this profile what the basis is for the Debnam claims.

Will one of the profile managers take on the task of reconciling these claims and cleaning the profile up? The full cite to the VMHB article if you need it is:

John Bailey Calvert Nicklin, “Deadman-Grymes-Taliaferro,” The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography 56 (1948): 208-210; digital image, JSTOR (https://www.jstor.org/stable/4245546 : accessed 21 Jun 2021).

The author of that note apparently published a more detailed discussion in Volume 21 of Tyler's Quarterly at pps. 83-84. That doesn't seem to be available online but may be helpful if you can find it in a library.

posted by Scott McClain
Noland-165 Liz (Noland) Shifflett
It does not appear that anything has been changed for this profile (aside from addressing DBEs) since you posted this comment. Perhaps if you provided the specifics in the research notes about the 4 or more Needs?

"Needs Extensive Work" is for when a profile requires work that falls under more than 3 maintenance categories, which is the max number the template can support. Whenever any maintenance category is added to a profile, why it was added should be included in Research Notes. When "Needs Extensive Work" is added to a profile, Research Notes should be added listing the four (or more) Needs categories with specifics about what is needed. This allows others to more easily see what work is needed.

See Space: US Southern Colonies Project Maintenance Categories for additional information about the project's maintenance categories.

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Ankrum-44 Lisa Ankrum
Yes, Marriage record shows Dedman

U.S. and International Marriage Records, 1560-1900 Name: Catherine Dedman Gender: Female Birth Place: EN Birth Year: 1625 Spouse Name: Robert Taliaferro Spouse Birth Place: EN Spouse Birth Year: 1620 Marriage Year: 1653 Marriage State: VA Number Pages: 1

posted by Lisa Ankrum
McClain-3310 Scott McClain
What do the "stanjoy.FTW" and "TUREL.FTW" sources refer to?
posted by Scott McClain
Noland-165 Liz (Noland) Shifflett
.ftw is the file extension for a Family Tree Maker file (a gedcom, in other words).
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Mary Elizabeth Stewart
A better citation would be: Turel, Joyce Stevens (StanJoy). "Turel-Stevens family tree." Ancestry.com
posted by Mary Elizabeth Stewart
Noland-165 Liz (Noland) Shifflett
a better citation, yes, but still not appropriate for pre-1700 profile. The source cited by the tree for the fact it supports is what's needed, which could then be attributed to the Turel-Stevens family tree, but a family tree itself is not a reliable source.
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Mary Elizabeth Stewart
Understood and agree that the citation is not particularly useful, but the question I answered was what do "stanjoy.FTW" and "TUREL.FTW" refer to.
posted by Mary Elizabeth Stewart
Schultz-2165 Bill Schultz
Debnam-193 and Debnam-107 appear to represent the same person because: These are both the daughters of Katherine, and thus the final given name should be Katherine, NOT Catherine. Whoever completes this merge needs to carefully consider which data to preserve and how to carefully manage the text.
posted by Bill Schultz
Smith-32867 Jillaine Smith
If there is controversy about this person's name, origins, and/or relationships, I encourage the profile managers to invite profile protection and (required) co-management by the US Southern Colonies project. We'd work in partnership with you to keep tabs on changes to this profile.
posted by Jillaine Smith
Cook-11853 Dorothy Jean (Cook) Coakley (1944-2018)
Are we to presume that Frances retained the last name of her first husband when she married again? I'll buy into that given the number of children with the Taliaferro last name but it does seem to slight her last child Frances Ann Jones.
posted by Dorothy Jean (Cook) Coakley (1944-2018)
[Living McQueen]
Grymes-54 and Dedman-21 do not represent the same person because: Grymes is her step-father
posted by [Living McQueen]
Willis-3076 Valerie Willis
the National Society; Sons and Daughters of the Pilgrims [1]

lists - Taliaferro; Robert - birth 11 Nov 1626 - death c1677/1700 - married Katherine Grymes

posted by Valerie Willis
Willis-3076 Valerie Willis
Grymes-54 and Dedman-21 appear to represent the same person because: may not look like the same individual - but she is and these profiles should be merged -

Katherine Dedman/Jones/Taliaferro was also known as "Sarah Grymes", as she was the step-daughter of Rev. Charles Grymes, who married her mother after her father died.<ref>Taliferro/Tolliver Records on Archive.org</ref>

posted by Valerie Willis
Willis-3076 Valerie Willis
Dedman-21 and Dedman-118 appear to represent the same person because: This is the same individual & should be merged with appropriate details given - Robert Taliaferro married Katherine Dedman in 1654; also known as Sarah Grymes because she had been adopted by her stepfather, the Rev. Charles Grymes (daughter of William Dedman & Katherine).
posted by Valerie Willis
Lowe-866 Karen Lowe
Taliaferro-203 and Dedman-21 appear to represent the same person because: Same family members. Let's merge!
posted by Karen Lowe
Nikki Cook
Dedman-62 and Dedman-21 do not represent the same person because: I have looked through the information, and suspect these two families are the same!
posted by Nikki Cook
Brooks-5834 Bill Brooks
Dedman-62 and Dedman-21 appear to represent the same person because: These profiles have similar names, dates, and relatives.
posted by Bill Brooks

Rejected matches › Sarah Grymes (1626-1672)

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