Thurstan (Despencer) le Despencer (abt. 1130 - aft. 1191)

Born about 1130 in England

Ancestors

Descendants

Died after 1191 after about age 61 in England

Problems/Questions Profile managers: Ron Lamoreaux [send private message] and Liz Shifflett [send private message]

Biography

In 1166 he was recorded as a knight of the Archbishop of York.^[1]

Thurstan was a royal servant. In 1171-2, after the death of Thomas Becket, he was one of the royal keepers of the Archbishopric of Canterbury while no successor to Becket had been appointed. He acted as a royal justice, helped to collect a royal aid (a form of taxation) in 1177, and, from 1177 to 1190, was Constable of Ludlow Castle, Shropshire with an annual allowance of £16 10s.^[2]

At one stage he was involved in a minor dispute with a member of the staff of Henry II's chancery: the official had not issued him with forma instructions of his duties as a royal official. It emerged that Thurstan had previously declined a request from the official for a gift of two royal cakes, and Thurstan was commanded to kneel before the official to beg for his instructions, with a gift of a cake.^[2]

Parents and Lineage

Thurstan le Despencer was the son of Simon le Despencer. ^[3]

The Complete Peerage states that this Thurstan was most probably the grandson of Hugh Dispenser and his wife Hawise. ^[4]

Property

Thurstan was the son of Simon Dispenser, inheriting his lands by 1153,^[1] when he was involved in a legal dissolute with the monks of Abingdon, Berkshire.^[2] His birth date is uncertain.

Among the lands he held were the manor of Rollright, Oxfordshire and estates in Gloucestershire and Worcestershire.^[2]

It is not certain that Thurstan held land at Charlecote in Warwickshire. His son Walter is recorded as Walter fitz Thurstan of Charlecote^[2] but that probably means that it was Walter who was of Charlecote, not Thurstan.

Death

He may have died in about 1191, when he was involved in a legal case over his Worcestershire property, and when the final recorded payment of his allowance as Constable of Ludlow Castle was made.^[2]

Children

1. Walter. ^{[3] [5] [6] [4]}
2. Amaury (Almaric). ^{[3] [5] [6] [4]}
3. Hugh. ^[7]
4. Turstin. ^[1]

Thurstan probably had another son, Roger, who may have been illegitimate.^[8]

Research Notes

The Spencer pedigree in The Visitation of Warwickshire^[5] for 1619 conflated several families together.

• The chart shows Thurstan as the son of Hugh de Dutton.
• This chart also shows him as the ancestor of Hugh le Despenser.

These relationships have been proven false, thus this pedigree chart should not be relied upon as a whole.

In addition, no part of this pedigree was published in the later Visitation of Warwick^[9] for 1682/3.

Lewis cites The Complete Peerage^[10], but the information is about a different family: Reynold de Lucy who married Amabel, daughter of William FitzDuncan. Reynold's heir by Amabel, Richard de Lucy. Reynold died about January 1198/99. Richard married Ada, eldest daughter of Hugh de Morville. Richard died s.p.m. in 1213 and by 13 August 1218, Ada had married (2) Thomas de Multon. This family is a different branch of the Lucys than Geoffrey de Lucy who married Juliane le Despsenser.^[11]

From another profile of a Walter Despenser (Despencer-20), attached as a son of Thurston prior to 17 February 2023:

Between 1181 and 1189 Henry II granted the manor at Kings Worthy, Hampshire, to Walter, the usher of the king's chamber, to hold in chief by the annual rent of a pair of gilded spurs. Walter was succeeded by his brother Aimery le Despenser, who in 1205 obtained from King John a confirmation of "the land of Worthy which King Henry our father gave to Walter the son of Thurstan".^[12]

Sorting two Walter Despensers

(...trying to.) From the profile for Despenser-70|Walter (abt. 1155 - bef. 1204)]], as of 17 February 2023:

See Complete Peerage, DESPENSER, footnote c, page 287 for Juliane Despenser. "This family is a different branch of the Lucys than Geoffrey de Lucy who married Juliane le Despsenser." The text is on the profile for Thurstan (Despencer) le Despencer (abt.1130-aft.1191), but appears to be taking issue with the Lucy connection rather than the Despenser connection. From Thurstan's profile (as of 17 February 2023):

Lewis cites The Complete Peerage^[13], but the information is about a different family: Reynold de Lucy who married Amabel, daughter of William FitzDuncan. Reynold's heir by Amabel, Richard de Lucy. Reynold died about January 1198/99. Richard married Ada, eldest daughter of Hugh de Morville. Richard died s.p.m. in 1213 and by 13 August 1218, Ada had married (2) Thomas de Multon. This family is a different branch of the Lucys than Geoffrey de Lucy who married Juliane le Despsenser.^[14]

Text of footnote c (original text's italics not shown; OCR errors not corrected):

Patent Roll, 33 Hen. Ill, m. 3. Thurstan had a confirmation of King's Worthy, Hants, and King's Stanley, co. Gloucester, 3 Feb. 1228/9 {Charter Roll, 13 Hen. III, p. I, m. 13), and was s. and h. of Aymer, Dispemator Regis, by his 2nd wife, Alda Bloet (Charter in Coll. Top. et Gen., vol. iv, p. 240). Aymer had m., istly, before Tuesday before St. Margaret 32 Hen. II [15 July 1186], Amabel (who had Dallington, Northants, in free marriage), da. and coh. of Walter de Chesney, by Eve, da. and h. of Eustace de Broc. By Amabel (called Maud in the Note Book) he had a da. and h., Julian, who m., istly, William Bardolf, 2ndly, Piers de Stokes (who d. s.p.), and, 3rdly, Geoffrey de Lucy, to whom she brought the manor of Dallington. (Harl. MSS., no. 1885, f. 22: Cartulary of Eynsham,\'o\. i, nos. 81-83: Curia Regis, roll no. 16, m. 3: Pipe Roll, 8 Ric. I, Norhamt': Bracton, Note Book, no. 1336: Fine Roll, 9 Joh., m. 9). Aymer had a confirmation of Worthy and Stanley, 24 Apr. 1204 {Charter Roll, 5 Joh., m. 7), and was br. and h. of Walter, Dispensator Regis (s. and h. of Thurstan), to whom Henry II granted the lands of Worthy and Stanley for his homage and service, rendering therefor a pair of gilt spurs or I2^. a year, to hold by the service of ^ a knight's fee. {Cart. Antiq., no. 28). It is highly probable that the last-named Thurstan was s. or grandson of Hugh, Dispensator Regis in 1105, which Hugh had a wife named Hawise, and was s. of Thurstan, or Turstm, Dispensator to William II. {Chron. of Abingdon, vol. ii, pp. 37, 125-127, 159)

Translated to a tree/linked to WikiTree profiles:

• Thurstan "Dispensator to William II": father of
• Hugh Despenser ("Dispensator Regis in 1105) m Hawise: "highly probable" he was father or grandfather [by Simon, son of Hugh & Helewise^[15][16]] of
• Thurstan, son and heir of Hugh [or Simon?]; Thurstan (abt. 1130-aft.1191) was father of Walter (b 1155)/duplicate Walter? (b 1148) & Aymer - Almaric le Despenser (abt.1155-bef.1212)
• Aymer Despenser, brother and heir of Walter (24 April 1204?); Walter was son and heir of Thurstan (son and heir of Hugh). Aymer married

1. before [15 July 1186], Amabel (called Maud in the Note Book), daughter and coheiress of Walter de Chesney, by Eve, da. and h. of Eustace de Broc
   1. Julian Despenser, daughter and heiress of Aymer by Amabel, married (1) William Bardolf, (2) Piers de Stokes, (3) Geoffrey de Lucy
2. Alda Bloet
   1. Thurstan (fl. 3 Feb. 1228/9), son and heir of Aymer by Alda Bloet

Surely that can't be right. Aymer can't have an heiress daughter AND a son and heir, can he? Unless Julian was only the heir of Amabel? The text says of her third husband, Geoffrey de Lucy: "to whom she brought the manor of Dallington" and Dallington had belonged to Amabel.

Sources

1. ↑ ^{1.0 1.1 1.2} K S B Keats-Rohan. Domesday Descendants, The Boydell Press, 2002, p. 800, entry for 'Dispensator, Turstin Filius Simoni'
2. ↑ ^{2.0 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5} Nicholas Vincent. The Lucys of Charlecote: The Invention of a Warwickshire Family 1170-1302, Dugdale Society Occasional Paper 12, Dugdale Society, 2002, pp. 5-8
3. ↑ ^{3.0 3.1 3.2} Cawley, Charles. Medieval Lands: A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families. Hosted online by the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG), accessed 2022, Earls of Winchester.
4. ↑ ^{4.0 4.1 4.2} Gibbs, Vicary. The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom: Extant, Extinct, or Dormant, Vol. IV (The St. Catherine Press, London, 1916) "Despenser," p. 287.
5. ↑ ^{5.0 5.1 5.2} Fetherston, John. The Visitation of the County of Warwick in the Year 1619. (Mitchell and Hughes, London, 1877) p. 283.
6. ↑ ^{6.0 6.1} Collins, Arthur. The Baronettage of England: Being an Historical and Genealogical Account of Baronets, From their first Institution in the Reign of King James I... Vol. I (W. Taylor, London, 1720) p. 306.
7. ↑ Blewett, Michael K. Bloet, Blouet, Bluett, Blewitt, and Blewett Genealogy, p. 18.
8. ↑ Nicholas Vincent, The Lucys of Charlecote, p. 24
9. ↑ Rylands, W. Harry. The visitation of the county of Warwick, begun by Thomas May, Chester, and Gregory King, Rouge dragon, in Hilary vacacon, 1682. Reviewed by them in the Trinity vacacon following, and finished by Henry Dethick Richmond, and said rouge dragon pursuiv in Trinity vacation, 1683, by virtue of several deputations from Sir Henry St. George, Clarenceux king of arms (The Harleian Society, London, 1911) [1]
10. ↑ Cokayne, G.E., Gibbs, V., ed. The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Vol. VIII (The St. Catherine Press, London, 1910) pp. 247-8.
11. ↑ Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham. Salt Lake City: the author, 2013; entry for Geoffrey de Lucy who married Juliane le Despenser in Royal Ancestry is at LUCY 7 (III:652-654). Reynold de Lucy who married Amabel FitzWilliam is at HARRINGTON 4 (III:215).
12. ↑ British History Online: Kings Worthy Parish, Hampshire.
13. ↑ Cokayne, G.E., Gibbs, V., ed. The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Vol. VIII (The St. Catherine Press, London, 1910) pp. 247-8.
14. ↑ Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham. Salt Lake City: the author, 2013; entry for Geoffrey de Lucy who married Juliane le Despenser in Royal Ancestry is at LUCY 7 (III:652-654). Reynold de Lucy who married Amabel FitzWilliam is at HARRINGTON 4 (III:215).
15. ↑ K S B Keats-Rohan. Domesday Descendants, The Boydell Press, 2002, p. 800, entry for 'Dispensator, Simon'
16. ↑ Nicholas Vincent. The Lucys of Charlecote: The Invention of a Warwickshire Family 1170-1302, Dugdale Society Occasional Paper 12, Dugdale Society, 2002, p. 5

• Descendants of Amaury Raoul D'Albetot, George R. Spencer. [2] family tree; no reliable source(s) listed

Bluett Notes:

• "Bluett. In 1084 Richard and William Bloet occur in Normandy. Robert Bloiet was bishop of Winchester to William I. Briqueville la Blouette was the Seat of this family in Normandy. Robert Bloet witnessed a charter of William I, and Ralph Bloet at the same time was benefactor of Gloucester Abbey." ~ from a Rootsweb page that will migrate to Ancestry after 15 April 2023 (accessed 17 February 2023)

• Posted as a comment to Raoul Blewett (abt.1095-): "Web site http://bluett.com/blewett/EarlyEnglandResearch.pdf The benefactor of Gloucester Abbey Witness of Grace Dieu Abbey. Source: Falaise Ross Recording Prominent companions of William Duke of Normanu at the Conquest of England by : M. Jaxkson Crispin and Leonce Macary with addions and c orrections by G. Andres Moriarty Reprinted Genealogical Publishing Co. Inc, Baltimore M.D. 1969,1985, 1994, 87.88,216
  • "Children: Eldai Bluett Blewett by about 1149 Ragland, USk Monmouthshire Ralph II Blewett of Lackham"

• Source of Eldai info given as https://bluett.com/blewett/EarlyEnglandResearch.pdf (accessed 17 February 2023; pdf included sources, but not for Eldai's entry):
  "7. Eldai 'Bluett'3 Blewett (Raoul 'Ralph I' 'Blouet'2, Walter1), b. about 1149, at Of, Raglan, Usk, Monmouthshire, England. Married Walter le de Spencer about 1168. He was the son of Thurstan le de Spencer and Incia. Walter le de Spencer was b. about 1148, at London, Middlesex, England, d. after 1189.
  • "Children of Eldai 'Bluett' Blewett and Walter le de Spencer:
    "i. Thomas le de Spencer."

• From Medieval Lands (accessed 17 February 2023):
  WALTER Le Despencer (-before 24 Apr 1205). King John confirmed "terra de Wordy et de Stanleia", which King Henry II had granted to "Waltero fratri suo", to "Almarico Dispensatori fil Turstan fratri Walteri fil Turstan heredi eiusdem Walteri" by charter dated 24 Apr 1205[142].