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Elen (Einudd) ferch Lwyddog ab Einudd (abt. 340 - 387)

Elen "St. Elen Lwyddog of the Host" ferch Lwyddog ab Einudd formerly Einudd aka ferch Eudaf
Born about in Roman Britainmap
Daughter of and [mother unknown]
Wife of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died at about age 47 in Roman Britainmap
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Profile last modified | Created 7 Jul 2011
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European Aristocracy
Elen (Einudd) ferch Lwyddog ab Einudd was a member of aristocracy in ancient Europe.
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Contents

Biography: In History

Elen is said to have been the wife of Emperor Magnus Maximus, who was born in 335 and was executed in 388. Magnus had an unnamed wife and son Victor, who fought in Magnus' final year and was also executed in 388.

These facts limit the possibilities for Magnus' marriage(s) to these:

  1. Elen was a second wife. The unnamed first wife married Magnus early enough for their son Victor to be 20 when he was killed in 388, or born 368. The unnamed wife would have married no later than 367, when Magnus was in Spain. The unnamed wife then died, possibly in childbirth, and Magnus married Elen, of Brythonic ethnicity when he was stationed in England in 368. All subsequent references to the unnamed wife, whose life was spared in 388, are references to Elen. Some or all of the other children were Elen's. Elen's own biography his a mixture of historic and legendary elements.
  2. Elen and the unnamed wife were one person., probably born in Spain and married before Magnus' first assignment to Britain. Elen's own biography has a mixture of historic and legendary elements.
  3. Elen is legendary and in legend is associated with Macsen Wledig, the legendary alternate identity of Magnus Maximus. As legendary people there need be no attempt to account for dates or time periods.Day-1904 11:37, 8 September 2017 (EDT)

Biography: In Legend

saint?

Ancestry of Eudaf Hen, Father of Elen

The family of Eudaf Hen - or Octavius the Old as he would have been known to his contemporaries - hailed from the Gwent area of Wales. Eudaf was apparently Lord of the Gewissae.

The Gewissae are a confused people. Some think they were the Germanic race who lived around Dorchester-on-Thames and Abingdon even before the Romans left Britain. They later merged with the West Saxons who continued to use the name. However, there are other indications that they were the British who lived further to the West. The word "Gewissae" may be related to Ewyas, the northern region of Gwent, and, possibly, to the Hwicce, an apparently Saxon people who lived in Gloucestershire. Their name may have had British origins.

There are tales of Eudaf holding court at Caer Segeint (Caernarfon), but this was probably due to associations with his son-in-law, the Emperor Magnus Maximus. The Gwent/Gloucestershire area would appear to have been his real home, like the tyrant Vortigern who seems to have claimed him as an ancestor.

But Eudaf is a man on the boundaries of mythology. All that can really be said about him is that he probably lived in the early 4th century. He supposedly took up the British High-Kingship after defeating King Coel Godhebog (the Magnificent)'s brother, Trahearn. However, even the old Celtic client-kingdoms under Roman rule had disappeared by this period. If Eudaf held any office of power, it would have been a simple administrative role; perhaps a praeses of Britannia Prima or a decurion of Gloucester or Caerwent.

He had no sons and was succeeded by his son-in-law, the Emperor Magnus Maximus. Conan, his nephew, had to be content as King of both Brittany and Dumnonia. Like many prominent men of their era, Eudaf and Conan claimed descent from Celtic Gods: Llyr Llediarth (Half-Speech), God of the Sea and his son, Bran Fendigaid (the Blessed), who was mortalized in popular tradition as a King of Siluria (Gwent). The pedigree below is gleaned from several sources, but is of little historical value:

Mythical Pedigree of Eudaf

  • Llyr Lleddiarth (Half-Speech), Abt 55 bc -

m. Iweriadd ferch Beli Mawr (the Great), 60 bc -

  • Bran Fendigaid (the Blessed), Abt 20 bc -
  • Caradog ap Bran (see below)
  • Alan ap Bran, Abt 22 -
  • Sadwr ap Bran, Abt 24 -
  • Nine Others, Abt 26 -
  • Caradog ap Bran, Abt 20 -
  • Coellyn ap Caradog, Abt 60 -
  • Owain ap Beli, Abt 100 -
  • Meirchion ap Owain, Abt 140 -
  • Cwrrig Fawr (the Great), Abt 180 -
  • Gwrddwfn ap Cwrrig, Abt 215 -
  • Einudd ap Gwrddwfn, Abt 250 -
  • Eudaf Hen (the Old), King of Ewyas & High-King of Britain, Abt 283 -
  • St. Elen Lwyddog (of the Host), Abt 340 - (m. Magnus Maximus, Emperor of the Western Roman Empire, d.388)
  • Gereint ap Einudd (see below)
  • Arthfael ap Einudd, Abt 310 -
  • Gwrgant ap Arthfael, Abt 330 -
  • Meirchion ap Gwrgant, Abt 370 -
  • Gereint ap Einudd, Abt 285 -
  • Conan Meriadoc, King of Brittany & Dumnonia, Abt 305 - Abt 367, (1)m. St Ursula of Dumnonia, Abt 305 - from whom descend the Kings of Dumnonia & (2)m. Dareca of Ireland, Abt 310 - from whom descend the Kings of Brittany

Sources


http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/gene/conanc.html

Research Notes

Her assistance and marriage have been described as "DISPUTED - LEGEND"





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Comments: 6

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The birth and death locations were erroneously corrected to Carnarfonshire, which did not exist before the Statute of Rhuddlan in 1284. As the dating is before the year 410, I have named the locations "Roman Britain." Wikitree apparently has a problem with locations it does not (yet) recognize. The fix needs to lie in correcting what Wikitree recognizes, not in entering locations which did not exist in the era!
posted by Jack Day
OK it's been almost a year now since my last comment on this profile, and it's still shambolically placed birth/death at "Caernarfon, England" which is literally nonsense.

I see that the 'Ancient European Royals and Aristocrats WikiTree' group is co-managing this profile. Is there any human there who will fix the wrong data we are publishing live to the internet and posterity? It's embarrasses us, as is.

Respectfully,

posted by Isaac Taylor
What is the source of these precise and (non-Uncertain) dates, and places?

Also, EuroAristos: surely "Caernarfon, England" is anachronistic on multiple levels. Neither that town nor country existed in Romano-British era. (And regardless, Caernarfon has never been within England.) If we mean that location (in latlong sense) then it was probably known as Segontium, Britannia, Roman Empire” to her notional husband, anyway.

I'm not even sure if we can call it Wales, then, can we?

Cheers

posted by Isaac Taylor
edited by Isaac Taylor
Can we get a Disputed Origins box on this profile and/or every profile in the family group? I love these folks, and these stories, but we are in the blurry boundary of legendary history and myth, where it's hard to assert this is genealogy ie fact-based history any more. Seems like we could do more on these profiles to flag that caveat to the readers of WikiTree.

p.s. The phrase from the bio would be offensive to the subject of the sentence: “The Gewissae are a confused people.” Isn't what we mean, that we are confused? Perhaps this wants a gerund vice adjective.

posted by Isaac Taylor
Welsh patronymic sanity-check:

How can this woman's LNAB here on Wikitree be "ferch Lwyddog ab Einudd" AND "Einudd aka ferch Eudaf" ?

Are we conflating (and also mispelling) her father and grandfather?

posted by Isaac Taylor
Einudd-7 and Ferch Eudaf-1 appear to represent the same person because: Same birth year. I believe Einudd-7 should really have been ferch Eudaf.
posted by Sandi (Weaver) Dreer

E  >  Einudd  |  F  >  ferch Lwyddog ab Einudd  >  Elen (Einudd) ferch Lwyddog ab Einudd

Categories: Ancient Royals and Aristocrats Project