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Walter FitzOther (abt. 1037 - aft. 1100)

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Walter FitzOther
Born about in Windsor, Berkshire, Englandmap
[sibling(s) unknown]
Husband of — married [date unknown] (to ) [location unknown]
Died after in Windsor, Berkshire, Englandmap
This page has been accessed 2,381 times.

Walter FitzOther (d. 1100 or later).[10][11][1][2]

Contents

Biography

"WALTER FITZOTHER, of Windsor, a Domesday tenant of lands in Berks, Bucks, Middlesex, Hants and Surrey, held a barony owing 15 or 20 knights' fees to the castle guard of Windsor, where he was Keeper of the Great Forest and castellan of the castle. He m. Beatrice. He was living in or after 1100."[3]

Titles

  • held a barony[2]


badges This person was a member of royalty, nobility or aristocracy in the British Isles. If you are interested in this profile, see our British Isles Royals and Aristocrats 742-1499 Project.


Parents

NOTICE
The parents listed for this individual are speculative and may not be based on sound genealogical research. Sources to prove or disprove this ancestry are needed. Please contact the Profile Manager or leave information on the bulletin board.
The parents of Walter FitzOther are UNKNOWN,[12] but according to the Domesday Book, his father's first name was, "Other" (not to be confused with Dominus Otho di Gheraldini of Florence.)


Marriage

m. Beatrice UNKNOWN (d. after 1100). Issue: 4.[17][1][2][5]

  • William FitzWalter (d. 1154/60).[18][19]
m. UNKNOWN.[20]
  • (disputed) Robert, Lord of Eston (Estains), Essex.[21][22][6]
m. (1100) Nesta ferch Rhys (Rhese of South Wales).[24][25][7]
  • Maurice (d. after 1130).[26]
m. Robert FitzWalter (father: Walter "the deacon").[28]

Property

  • "Will Hall, Neatham Hundred and Malshanger, Chuteley Hundred in Hampshire, in Berkshire including in Ripplesmere Hundred and Nakedthorn Hundred, Stanwell in Middlesex/Surrey," (Domesday Book).[29][8]

Occupation

Descendants

  • Windsor of Stanwell.[10]

Fictional Pedigree

  • Fictional pedigree mashup seen here (including/up to Cosimo Gherardini).[32]

Sources

Burke, J. (1833). .A General and Heraldic Dictionary of the Peerage and Baronetage of the British Empire, (Vol 2., pp. 300 - 301). H. Colburn and R. Bentley. Google Books.[33]


Collins, A. (1756). Peerage of England: Containing a Genealogical and Historical Account of All the Peers of England, Now Existing... Their Descents and Collateral Lines: Their Births, Marriages, and Issues... Deaths, Places of Burial, Monuments, Epitaphs... Also Their Paternal Coats of Arms, Crests, Supporters and Mottos, (pp. 38-). W. Innys. Google Books.[34]


Dwnn, M. (1846). Heraldic visitations of Wales and part of the Marches, between the years 1586 and 1613; ed. with notes by Samuel Rush Meyrick, p. 99. Google Books.[35]


Domesday Book.[36]


Lloyd, J.E. (1912). A History of Wales from the Earliest Times to the Edwardian Conquest], (Vol 2, pp. 767). Google Books.[37]


The Peerage. Web.[38]


Round, (1902). The Ancestor; a quarterly review of county and family history, heraldry and antiquities, (1), pp.120 - . Archive.org. eBook.[39]



European Aristocrats Source
Our main source for medieval genealogy in the European Aristocrats Project is the FMG database MEDIEVAL LANDS: A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families by Charles Cawley,© Foundation for Medieval Genealogy & Charles Cawley, 2000-2015.




  1. 1.0 1.1 Burke's Peerage, n.d., p. 2261[citation needed]
  2. 2.0 2.1 2.2 2.3 Complete Peerage X:10, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)
  3. Complete Peerage X:10, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)
  4. Earls of Kildare gave Walter FitzOther a fictional Florentine pedigree through Dominus Otho di Gheraldini of Florence (Round, 1902).[1]
  5. NOTES RE: alleged marriage to Gladys
    a.) FitzOther m. Gladys ferch Rywallan ap Convyn, Prince of North Wales. (Collins, 1756, p. 38. citing Earl of Kerry's pedigree attested by Sir William Seager [Garter King of Arms] in 1615.[2]) ... Collins (1756), goes on to state that Kerry's pedigree is contradicted, "But by Vincent ... Beatrix is made to be his wife."[3]
    b.) PER CURT -- I originally had Gwladus verch Rhiwallon, wife of Rhys ap Tewdwr, as a 2nd wife of Walter. In a post-em Curt Hofemann, curt_hofemann AT yahoo.com, cleared up some of the mystery, while opening up several more (see below), his post-em begins with my note expressing doubt:
    "Her marriage to Walter Fitz Other is indicated in many internet sources. However it is not backed by Burke's Peerage. Additionally her daughter Nesta is documented to be the wife of Walter's son Gerald Fitz Walter which would not have been likely if Gerald's mother were Gwladus. She may have been mother of some of Walter's children, instead of Beatrice?"
    Perhaps the answer to your above quandary is the possiblity that the Gladys/Gwladys that married Walter fitzOtho was not the dau of Rhywallon ap Cynfyn, Prince of Powys. Turton indicates Walter's wife was Gladys dau of Havallon ap Eynfyn Prince of North Wales (no further info on him). My notes do not show that Turton listed a second marriage for Walter to Beatrice.
    This, if true (& with Turton, that's a BIG if), would eliminate the problem of the son of Walter marrying the dau of Gwladus verch Rhiwallon.
    Regards,
    Curt
    The mystery is that Turton, n.d. (p. 144),[citation needed] states that Walter's wife is Beatrice (agreeing with CP (X:10), AR (line 178-2) & BP (p. 1679)). I cannot find any other mention of Walter or Gladys verch Havallon in Turton's book, although I can't guarantee that it isn't there. I see that Mike Hofemann, who may be related to Curt, has the same information in his World Connect database (mhofemann) and uses Turton and Paul McBride as sources, yet "Ancestors of Paul McBride" states that Walter's wife is Beatrice. Maybe Turton & Paul McBride changed their pedigree, yet I don't think that Turton has been updated since 1928 when it was first published. I am eliminating Gladys/Gwladys as a 2nd wife of Walter until such time as a valid source indicates that it is so, since all four published sources seem surprisingly unanimous in stating that Walter's wife was Beatrice.
    Dwyn (1846), gives Nest, daughter of Rhys ap Tewdwr and Gwladus vh Rhiwallon, as the wife of Gerald of Windsor,[4] son of Walter. No mention of a marriage between Gwladus and Walter.[5]
  6. Line dies with the Hastings;[6] Cawley (2006), does not record Robert as a known child of Walter FitzOther.[7]
  7. "Nesta of Wales, daughter of RHYS ap Tudor Mawr King of Deheubarth [South Wales] & his wife Gwladus".[8][9]
  8. 1086: tenant-in-chief [holding direct of the Crown] of lands in Berks, Bucks, Hants, Middx and Surrey at the time of the Domesday Survey (Burke's Peerage, n.d., p. 1679)[citation needed]
    1086: held among other manors that of Stanwell, Middlesex, at the Domesday Survey (Burke's Peerage, n.d., p. 2261)
  9. 9.0 9.1 Burke, n.d., p. 1679[citation needed]
  10. CAUTION: The Stanwell branch is not related to the Westmoreland branch, i.e. -- Sir William, Baron Windsor, husband of Alice de Perrers (mistress of Edward III), is NOT a descendant of Walter FitzOther. Note that early secondary sources by Burke and Collins err in trying to mix the branches.



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DNA
No known carriers of Walter's Y-chromosome or his mother's mitochondrial DNA have taken yDNA or mtDNA tests.

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Images: 1
Windsor Pedigree by Banks
Windsor Pedigree by Banks


Collaboration
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On May 26, 2016 at 20:41GMT Unknown Unknown wrote:

Maybe consider removing the Gheraldini family as his parents, since the evidence isn't stacking up.

On May 25, 2016 at 17:19GMT Unknown Unknown wrote:

Did a little sorting... in an attempt to straighten up a trainwreck later in the line.

On October 22, 2014 at 15:58GMT Andrew Lancaster wrote:

Father is another problem: is presumed to be "Other". See Keats-Rohan, and Round: Round, J. H. (1902), "The Origin of the Fitzgeralds" Parts I and II in The Ancestor, Numbers 1 and 2. Links https://archive.org/stream/ancestorquarterl01londuoft and https://archive.org/stream/ancestorquarterl02londuoft

On October 21, 2014 at 00:08GMT Darlene Athey Hill wrote:

FitzOtho de Windsor-1 and FitzOther-5 appear to represent the same person because: Need to first merge fathers (which I proposed) and then merge these; thanks.

On September 28, 2014 at 15:17GMT Andrew Lancaster wrote:

The name at birth should be FitzOther. FitzOtho is a frequently repeated error (noted already 100 years with his usual scorn by J H Round). No record calls him "de Windsor" either, which was is a name associated with later generations.



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