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Tangwystl Goch ferch Llywarch (abt. 1182 - aft. 1201)

Tangwystl Goch ferch Llywarch
Born about in Denbighshire, Walesmap
Ancestors ancestors
[spouse(s) unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died after after about age 19 in Caernarvonshire, Walesmap
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Profile last modified | Created 13 Feb 2016
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Contents

Biography

Birth and Parents

Bartrum shows Tangwystl as the daugther of Llywarch Goch and Tangwystl ferch Llywarch.[1] Goch is the Welsh word for "red".

Sharon Penman observed that the name"Tangwystl" Means "Pledge Of Peace". [2]

Warrington notes that Llywarch Goch, was Lord of Rhos [3] and other writers have suggested that for this reason, Rhos may be counted as Tangwystl's birth place. Weis also describexs Tangwystl Goch Verch Llywarch, Of Rhos as the daughter of Llywarch the Red of Rhos by Weis. [4]

1180 Birth Year Estimation

Charles Cawley notes that Llywelyn, whose mistress Tangwystl became, was born in 1173, and that Tangwystl was probably born after that date.[5]

Wolcott observed that Tangwystl was born about 1180, the daughter of Llywarch Goch ap Iorwerth ap Cynan ap Llywarch Goch ap Llywarch Hwlbwrch. [6]

Tangwystl and Llywelyn had a son Gruffydd. Cawley estimates that Gruffydd was probably born before the 1205 wedding of Llywelyn and Joan. [5] Cawley believes there may have been a wife prior to Joan. If Gruffydd's conception took place in 1204, and Tangwystl was 18 at the time, her birth year would have been 1186. If Tangwystl was 15 at the time, a not uncommon occurrance, her birth year might have been 1189.

However, Tangwystl's mother is shown as dying in 1182, and that is the year selected as her estimated birth year.

1195 Tangwystl's union with Llywelyn

The first mystress of Llywelyn the Great was Tangwystl, daughter of Llywarch "Goch" of Rhos and his wife. [5]

Tangwystl Goch ferch Llywarch Goch ap Iorwerth ap Cynan ap Llywarch Howlbwrch was the mistress of Llywelyn ab Iorwerth. [7] Boyer follows Bartrum, who noted that Tangwystl was the mistress of Llywelyn the Great and mother of his son Gruffudd and daughters Gwladus Ddu and Gwenllian, and possibly also Margred and Ellen.[8]

Cawley notes that Tangwystl, the daughter of llywarch "Goch" of Rhos and his wife [5] was the first of several mistresses of Llywelyn ap Iorwerth.

With Tangwystgil 1194-1198. Concubine. Tangwystgl means “pledge of peace.” Died after a fall brought on premature childbirth.[9]

While most writers assert that Tangwystl was one of several mistresses of Llywelyn, writing in 1823, William Warrington believed that Tangwystl and Llywelyn were married. Prince Llewelyn, in his youth, had married Tangwystl, daughter of Llywarch Goch the lord of Rhos." [3]

Llywelyn died 11 Apr 1240, in today's Aberconwy, Arllechwedd Uchaf, Caernarvonshire, Wales [10]

1201 Death of Tangwystl

Tangystl died Between 1201 and 1209 [11]

One writer indicates that she bled to death after a fall brought on premature childbirth. [10]

Issue

Some sources state that Tangwystl was the mother of most of Llywelyn's illegitimate children. Cawley in the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy, however, believes she is only the mother of one child, Gruffydd. [5]

  1. Gruffydd (before 1205-Tower of London 1 Mar 1244). Called "frater primogenitus" of David by Matthew of Paris, when he records that Gruffydd consented to his brother's succession on the death of their father[293]. Lord of Lleyn. He was captured and imprisoned in the Tower of London, dying in an escape attempt[294]. [5]

Boyer, following Bartrum, names two children of Tangwystl and Llywelyn:

  1. Gruffudd, oldest son, d. 1 March 1244 while trying to escape the Tower of London; m. (1) Senena fech Caradog, m. (2) Rhanullt ferch Rheinallt, King of Man, m. (3) Catrin ferch Cynehwr of Ireland. [7]
  2. Gladyts Ddu, d. Windsor 1251; m (1) Reynold (for Reginald) de Braiose, swho d. 9 June 1228; m. (2) 1230 Ralph de Mortimer.[7]

Bartrum himself gives a longer list: Tangwystl, the mistress of Llywelyn the Great, was the mother of his son Gruffudd . She was also the mother of the following daughters:

  1. Gwladus Ddu
  2. Gwenllian,
  3. Margred
  4. Ellen.[12]

Boyer lists an additional daughter:

  1. Senana (perhaps) of Man, but not listed by Bartrum). See Weis, where the presentation is confusing. [7]

Issue of Tangwystl and Llewlyn the Great:[1]

  • Gruffydd ap Llywelyn[2] (c.1196-1244) m. Senena (dau. of Caradoc ap Thomas of Anglesey). Gruffydd had four sons including Llywelyn ap Gruffydd, who for a period occupied a position in Wales comparable to that of his grandfather, and Dafydd ap Gruffydd who ruled Gwynedd briefly after his brother's death. n"By Tangwystl Llewelyn had a son, very brave, called Gryffydd ap Llewelyn; who, as heir apparent, had the Cantrevs of Englefield, Rhos, Rhyvonioc, and Dyffryn Clwyd given him by his father, being the country adjoining to England; in order that the young prince might be induced, by a closer motive of interest, to defend his own territories, from the common enemy the English. He married, during his father’s life, Sina daughter of Caradoc ap Thomas."[3]

Gruffydd ap Llywelyn[3] (c.1196-1244)[13] m. Senena[14] Issue.[15]

Cawley names several other illegitimate children of LLywelyn who are sometimes thought to be the children of Tangwystl, but whom Cawley believes were the children of up to six other mistresses whose names have become lost. [5]

Research Notes

Was Tangwystl the same person as "Tanglust" who was said to have married William le Belward?"

Peter Cotgreave's study outlines a possible chain of events by which Tangwystl became Tanglust. [16]

"In about 1200, Pope Innocent III mistakenly believed that the Welsh prince Llywelyn had previously been married to a sister of Ranulf II, earl of Chester. The only woman he coul dhave meant -- the mother of Llywelyn's children, sometimes called his wife -- was called Tangwystl. The coincidence of an unuaual name with the suggestion that she was a sister of Earl ranulf storngly point to this being the woman whom Whitgrave believed had married his ancestor. In fact, she was not the earl's sister and her association with the Belwards was probably caused by confusion about a later marriage; the genuine Tangwystl's grandson really did marry one of Belward's descendants and heirs in the barony" of Malpas. [16]

Sources

Bibliography of Frequently Used Sources

Span ID's

Citations

  1. Llywarch Howlbwrch 1, Llywarch ap Bran 1 (#Bartrum)
  2. Sharon Kay Penman "Falls the Shadow", p. 136. Cited by Kinship Tree.
  3. 3.0 3.1 3.2 William I. Warrington, The History of Wales in Nine Books with an Appendix, By the author, 4ed. (Brecon: 1823), Vol.2, Book VII, pp 16-17. accessed February 16, 2016)
  4. Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1760, (7th ed Genealogical Publishing, Baltimore 1992), line 260, line 176 p 151
  5. 5.0 5.1 5.2 5.3 5.4 5.5 5.6 Charles Cawley, Foundation for Medieval Genealogy. Medieval Lands Database.Llywelyn ap Iorwerth, Accessed February 16, 2016
  6. Darrell Wolcott, Ancient Wales Studies, Llywarch Hwlbwrch Llywarch Hwlbwrch is #11. Accessed February 19, 2016
  7. 7.0 7.1 7.2 7.3 Carl Boyer, Jr. Medieval Welsh Ancestors of Certain Americans. By the author: Santa Clarita, California, 2004. LLywelyn ab Iorwerth is #36 on page 300.
  8. Gruffudd ap Cynan 4 (#Bartrum)
  9. http://geneagraphie.com/getperson.php?personID=I41209&tree=1 Citing (1) Genealogical History of the House of Gwysaney, John Bernard Burke, (London, 1847), Anhang . (2) University of Hull Royal Database (3) Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who came to America before 1760, Frederick Lewis Weis. (7th ed Genealogical Publishing, Baltimore, 1992. Line 260. P. 151. (4) Familiesarchief Weebers, A. A. M en W. Th. M. Weebers (ppgreswteldca, 1920-1930 (5) Falls the Shadow, Sharon Kay Penman.
  10. 10.0 10.1 Kinship Tree. Anonymous Web Site http://kinshiptree.com/getperson.php?personID=I74453&tree=kinshiptree
  11. Historical novelist Sharon Kay Penman "Falls the Shadow" p. 31, gives death date of Aug. 1201. Other secondary sources give later dates up to 1209 Cited by Kinship Tree
  12. Gruffudd ap Cynan 4 (#Bartrum)
  13. Llywelyn's eldest son
  14. dau. of Caradoc ap Thomas of Anglesey.
  15. 4 sons including Llywelyn ap Gruffydd, who for a period occupied a position in Wales comparable to that of his grandfather, and Dafydd ap Gruffydd who ruled Gwynedd briefly after his brother's death.
  16. 16.0 16.1 Peter Cotgreave. The barony of Malpas in the twelfth century. Transactions, Historic Society of Lancashire and Cheshire, 2008, 157.2. page 15-16.

See also:





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Comments: 10

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Jack: Rhos is Rhosllanerchrugog, the "largest village in Wales" about 12 miles from where Tangwystl is buried in the church in Bryneglwys. We have a memorial to her in the church.

My family are from Rhos; all of my mother's side have red hair.

posted by Judith Williams
edited by Judith Williams
Rhôs is not Rhosllanerchrugog. It is a cantref/Cwmwd of ancient Gwynedd. This has often been a source of confusion. If you need help on the ancient cantrefau please get in touch.
posted by Steve Bartlett
Thanks Steve, that explains various oddities.
posted by Judith Williams
Shouldn't DOD be about 1209 as it is estimated she died in childbirth?
posted by Debra (Adams) Akin
I've edited to put material in chronological order and eliminate some excess, especially citations from weak sources like Geni which simply repeat information from stronger sources.
posted by Jack Day
Jack, Do you think we need to find a better place of birth than Denbighshire, which did not exist then?
posted by Steve Bartlett
Absolutely. I'm poor at figuring out the locations in medieval times, but the clue should be there. Where is Rhjos? Or Where Was it? And we'll need a category for the place -- they're especially important becuase the CIB can give background information on what the place was part of!
posted by Jack Day
update: merge completed

Goch-14 and Ferch Llywarch-3 appear to represent the same person because: these are duplicate profiles; LNAB is ferch Llywarch

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
I "unhid" the relationship with Llewellyn ab Iowerth. The option to hide a marriage is not intended to hide mistresses. If a couple was not married & you do not want WikiTree to show them as married, you need to remove them as spouse. If you do, please make sure to add the name & WikiTree ID of the "non-spouse" in the text. (For example, the text says she was the "mistress of Llewlyn the Great" but does not link to him (I'll go fix that, but always check that a link to the profile you disconnect is included in the text).

Cheers, Liz

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
I "unmarried" Llywelyn and Tangwystl -- only one late author said they were married, the general consensus is that they were not. They are linked in the text.
posted by Jack Day