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Elizabeth (Unknown) Sawtell (abt. 1615 - 1694)

Elizabeth Sawtell formerly [surname unknown]
Born about in Englandmap
Daughter of [father unknown] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Wife of — married before 1638 in Watertown, Middlesex, Massachusetts Bay Colonymap [uncertain]
Descendants descendants
Died at about age 79 in Watertown, Middlesex, Massachusetts Bay Colonymap
Profile last modified | Created 26 Mar 2017
This page has been accessed 1,020 times.
The Puritan Great Migration.
Elizabeth (Unknown) Sawtell migrated to New England during the Puritan Great Migration (1621-1640).
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Unknown Origins

This profile originally asserted a birth of about 1615 at Rattlesden, Suffolk, England with absolutely no source. About 1615 may be correct since her first proven child was born in 1638 but clearly is NOT possible if she was the Elizabeth Pople married at High Ham, Somersetshire in 1628 (and there is absolutely no proof that this is the correct marriage record as analyzed here and on Richard's profile). Her origins are unknown at this point other than presumably born in England.

The profile also asserted a marriage of 28 Feb 1637 at Watertown, Massachusetts which is not supported by any known source. Since Richard Sawtell's land grant in 1637 was for a single man, and their first proven child was born in 1638 (Elizabeth), their marriage is being set to "before 1638" with an uncertain Watertown, MA location.

Biography

The maiden name of the wife of Richard Sawtell has not been documented. His will[1] (and Watertown birth records of their children) only names her Elizabeth.

This profile originally asserted that "Pope claims her name was POPLE" citing no source and in fact, Pope in "Pioneers of Massachusetts...&c" makes no such claim, he only states that her first name was Elizabeth.[2]

Torrey in "New England Marriages to 1700" asserts a last name of "Pople" (Richard is listed both as Sautle and Sawtell)[3]. Of all the sources Torrey cites, only one (Farr Ancestry)[4] claims a last name for Elizabeth and the book gives no rationale whatsoever for associating this Richard & Elizabeth with the 1627 marriage in Somersetshire. Clearly this is "Name is the same" logic and while it could be true, it should not be considered "proven" by any means. The author (Edith Bartlett Sumner) goes on to say that they "might" have had a child Richard born in England who died in 1676 although the death supposedly appears in Watertown Vital Records but he may have died in England. She also says that he was born in Watertown, so this author was not internally consistent along with asserting unsourced facts.

A last name of "Post" was also asserted (mistakenly) in another of Torrey's sources, "Cross Ancestry".[5] Unfortunately the author (Roselle Theodore Cross) made a generational mistake. John Sawtelle, SON of this Richard the immigrant married Elizabeth Post and the grandson bequeathed to by Elizabeth's father Thomas Post was John (jr), son of John Sr. R.T. Cross knew of John (Sr)'s first marriage to an "Anne" but seems to have mixed up the Elizabeth Post marriage. The language of the will (written in 1691) and a bit of math proves this. The will said that John would receive his bequest when he came of age meaning he was under 21 in 1691 and therefore born after 1670. If R.T. Cross was right in her book, the the John who was bequeathed to was John "Sr", son of Richard the immigrant; that John was born in 1648 so was 43 years old when the will was written. Therefore the grandson of Thomas Post was clearly NOT John son of Richard, and Richard was clearly NOT married to Elizabeth "Post".

Sources

  1. Bond, Henry, M.D., Genealogies of the Families and Descendants of the Early Settlers of Watertown, Massachusetts, Including Waltham and Weston (Boston: Little, Brown & Company 1855), p 424 and 932
  2. The pioneers of Massachusetts, a descriptive list, drawn from records of the colonies, towns and churches and other contemporaneous documents by Pope, Charles Henry, 1841-1918 Publication date 1900 Publisher Boston, C.H. Pope p. 402
  3. New England Marriages to 1700. (Online database. AmericanAncestors.org. New England Historic Genealogical Society, 2008.) Originally published as: New England Marriages Prior to 1700. Boston, Mass.: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 2015. Vol. 2 p. 1334 $subscription required
  4. Descendants of Thomas Farr of Harpswell, Maine, and ninety allied families. by Sumner, Edith Bartlett, Publication date 1959 Publisher Los Angeles, Calif., Am. Offset Print., 1959. p. 236
  5. My children's ancestors; data concerning about four hundred New England ancestors of the children of Roselle Theodore Cross and his wife Emma Asenath (Bridgman) Cross; also names of many ancestors in England, and descendants of Mr. and Mrs. Cross's grandparents, Theodore and Susannah (Jackson) Cross, Samuel and Lois (Temple) Murdock, Noah and Asenath (Judd) Bridgman, Jacob and Lydia (Slack) Daggett; by Cross, Roselle Theodore, 1844-1924 Publication date 1913 Publisher Twinsburg, O. [Columbus, O., The Champlin press] p. 131

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Comments: 7

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Elizabetha Pople m. Richardus Sawtell

Marriage Date: 5 Feb 1627 Marriage Place: High Ham, Somerset, England

FHL Film Number: 1526638

Source: England, Marriages, 1538–1973. Salt Lake City, Utah: FamilySearch, 2013.

posted by Shaun Sindelman
Unfortunately it's boot-strap logic. Edith Sumner in "Farr Ancestry" apparently found a transcription of that 1628 marriage and based on the name being the same, asserted that it was the New England couple. Then Torrey cited Sumner to say "Pople". Then other people cite Torrey. But there is still no proof that it WAS the same couple.

I could just as well say that the man married in 1628 was the one buried in 1640, 3 miles away at Huish Episcopi, Somerset https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBPRS%2FSOMERSET%2FBUR%2F002648594 since the record doesn't say "son of", he was over 21. Without supporting evidence, we don't know it was the right marriage and then an 10 year gap to their first proven child (Elizabeth) seems strange.

posted by Brad Stauf
This source says Richard Sawtell, father of Obadiah Sawtell married Elizabeth POST (dau. of Thomas Post).

Genealogies of Kentucky Families from The Register of the Kentucky Historical Society, Vol. II https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=FLHG-KYFamiliesII&h=169648&ti=0&indiv=try&gss=pt&_gl=1*n88ejc*_ga*MTE5NDU4OTg0OS4xNjQ5MTY3NjEw*_ga_4QT8FMEX30*MTY1NTc1NDIzMi4xMDcuMS4xNjU1NzU3NTYwLjU4

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posted by Shaun Sindelman
Unfortunately the author doesn't give us any clues to how we can prove that statement. Family Search also says that, but without proof.

Torrey's New England Marriages under Sautle cites Bond's Watertown for the Pople surname, and points us to the possible High Ham couple in Somersetshire.

I also challenge anyone to find a primary source for the currently shown marriage date of 28 Feb 1637 in Watertown. Watertown VRs are here. Nothing found in a search on AmericanAncestors.org beyond the Torrey's entry. I think that marriage data should be removed lacking any credible source.

posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
I agree the marriage date/place should be removed and the High Ham marriage should be researched.
posted by Traci Thiessen
Shaun, the source of that is almost certainly one of Torrey's sources, "Cross Ancestry" found here https://archive.org/details/mychildrensances00cros/page/130/mode/2up

Unfortunately the author (Roselle Theodore Cross) made a generational mistake. John Sawtelle, SON of this Richard the immigrant married Elizabeth Post and the grandson bequeathed to by Thomas Post was John (jr), son of John Sr. R.T. Cross knew of John (Sr)'s first marriage to an "Anne" but seems to have mixed up the Elizabeth Post marriage. The language of the will (written in 1691) and a bit of math proves this. The will said that John would receive his bequest when he came of age meaning he was under 21 in 1691 and therefore born after 1670. If R.T. Cross was right in her book, the the John who was bequeathed to was John "Sr", son of Richard the immigrant; that John was born in 1648 so was 43 years old when the will was written. Therefore the grandson of Thomas Post was clearly NOT John son of Richard, and Richard was clearly NOT married to Elizabeth "Post".

Hope this helps.

posted by Brad Stauf
UNKNOWN-135311 and Unknown-361521 appear to represent the same person because: Same vitals; same spouse; same children. Please merge into Unknown-361521 as Upper/Lower case is the preferred spelling for wikitree profiles. Thank you.
posted by Jillaine Smith

Rejected matches › Elizabeth Pople (1611-)

[Do you know Elizabeth's family name?]  |  S  >  Sawtell  >  Elizabeth (Unknown) Sawtell

Categories: Puritan Great Migration