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Joseph Kingsbury (abt. 1601 - abt. 1676)

Joseph Kingsbury
Born about in Boxford, Suffolk, Englandmap [uncertain]
Ancestors ancestors
Husband of — married 1635 [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died about at about age 75 in Dedham, Suffolk, Massachusetts Bay Colonymap
Profile last modified | Created 14 Sep 2010
This page has been accessed 7,202 times.
The Puritan Great Migration.
Joseph Kingsbury migrated to New England during the Puritan Great Migration (1621-1640). (See The Directory, by R. C. Anderson, p. 195)
Join: Puritan Great Migration Project
Discuss: pgm

Contents

Update as to Origins

Until recently, the association of Joseph Kingsbury, son of James of Boxford, Suffolk, England, as the Joseph Kingsbury who immigrated New England and died of Dedham, Massachusetts, has been elusive. In 2005, Robert Charles Anderson believed the immigrant was related to the Kingsburys from that area, but he could not further define their relationship.[1] A Spring 2021 article[2] by Melinde Lutz Byrne and John Edward Hardy in New England Historical and Genealogical Register shows they are indeed the same man. See Research Notes.

Biography

Joseph Kingsbury was born say 1601; he was listed sixth in his fathers will, apparently then at least 21 years of age.[3] From that will,

To Joseph Kingsberie, my son, certain furniture and other things.

Joseph died Dedham, Massachusetts, 1676 (a specific date cannot be known, the original image is damaged as can be seen here).[4] The death prior is the 24th day of the 2nd month i.e. 24 Apr 1676, the death after is the 22nd day of the 2nd month so the records are somewhat out of order.[5]

Immigration

Joseph and his brother John were signers of the Dedham Covenant (initially signed 15 Aug 1636 although a per-signatory date is not given).[6] Presumably he signed the covenant before the 1637 land transaction listed below in order to be allowed to own land in Dedham.

Joseph was then mentioned on 18 Jul 1637 in a real estate transaction when Ezechiell [sic] Holliman requested permission of his society to turn some property over to "John Kingsbury and Joseph his brother".[7]

Marriage

Joseph's wife was Millicent as she was named in his will[8]; she was admitted to the Dedham church on 20 Oct 1639 (20th day of 8th month) but there is no record of her last name.

The Millicent "Eames" listed by Anderson married William Sprague in 1634 or 1635. Arthur Murry Kingsbury in his work on the family listed her as "possibly an Ames" which is shown as her current last name[9]

Colonial Life

Joseph was in Dedham by 23 Nov 1638 when he appeared in the town's records in reference to an unfinished meetinghouse.[10] He was admitted to the church there 09 April 1641 (after his wife):[11]

Joseph Kingsbury of whom mention was made before yt he was left out of ye foundation of ye church for some cause ther mentioned wherin he could not of a long time co'e off to ye satisfaction of ye church yet at lenth. some temptations wherin he was being removed, & ye lord by his word more discovering his evills unto him & humbling him for ye same after divers meetings in private & some experience of his spiritt ye church was so well p'suaded of his repentance & faith as yt he was received into ye fellowship of ye church ye 9th of ye 2d m: 1641.

Joseph was listed as "brother" and "of Dedham" in John Kingsbury's will of 2 Dec 1659.[7]

Will

1675 22 day of the third month called May I Joseph Kingsbery senr of Dedham in you County of Suffolke yeaman ... given & delivered to my two eldest sons Joseph & John their portion ... my brother John Kinsbery deceased ... Millesent my deare & well beloved wife ... son Eleazer [not yet married] ... Nathanell [son] ... daughter Sarah Crosseman ... son in law Thomas Cooper of Rehobath ... Elizabeth Brewer my grand-childe ... at the age of twenty... son in law Robert Croseman ... son in law Nathaniell Brewer ... Proved first of June 1676[8]

As above, he calls out,

  • wife Millicent
  • brother John (deceased)
  • sons Joseph, John, Eleazer, Nathaniel
  • daug Sarah Crosseman
  • sons-in-law Thomas Cooper, Robert Croseman & Nathaniel Brewer
  • grandchild Elizabeth Brewer
  • and Henry Kingsbury of Ipswich (his kinsman, presumed nephew)

Children

Records for the children[12] are also found in the Dedham town records[13]

  • Sarah, b. probably sometime in 1639-1632 in England; m. 25 May 1652 Robert Crossman in Dedham; d. before December 1687 in Taunton. (See discussion and sources in Sarah's profile.)
  • Mary b. Dedham, b 1 Sep 1637; m. Thomas Cooper; d Aug 6, 1678
  • Elizabeth, b. Dedham 14 Sep 1638; m. Nathaniel Brewer; d June 25, 1661
  • Joseph, b. Dedham 17 Feb 1640/1; m Mary Doner, Sept 7, 1681 Wrentham; d Dec 16, 1688 Wrentham.
  • John b. Dedham, b 15 Aug 1643, Dedham; m Elizabeth Fuller, Nov 29, 1666; d May 30, 1669; Elizabeth m2nd Michael Metcalf 1672
  • Eleazer, b. Deham 17 May 1645; m Esther Judson
  • Nathaniel, b. Dedham 26 Mar 1650; m Mary Bacon, Oct 14, 1673, Dedham; d Oct 14, 1694 Dedham

Research Notes

In the 1630s, three Kingsbury immigrants arrived at Massachusetts Bay Colony--Henry Kingsbury, who was known of Assington, England, and Boston, Massachusetts, and two brothers, John and Joseph Kingsbury, who settled at Dedham. A younger Henry Kingsbury (b. about 1615), nephew of John and Joseph, arrived also, settling at Ipswich and Haverhill.

The 1622 English will by James Kingsbury of Boxford, Suffolk, England, calls out eight children, including sons Henry, John, and Joseph. Of this will, the 1905 authors Kingsbury and Talcott wrote, "Here we have the names of the three brothers who came to New England, Henry, John and Joseph ...";[14] a Kingsbury descendancy chart is included, reporting all as sons of James of Boxford, deceased 1622.[15] In the will, James also makes a bequest to his grandson Henry. In the context of the document, it is apparent this particular grandson is the child of James' son, Henry.
As late as 2005, writing about the origins of immigrant John Kingsbury and his brother Joseph, Anderson did not follow the 1905 findings by Kingsbury and Talcott, writing that "'Frederick John Kingsbury and Mary Kingsbury Talcott's proposed English origin [for the brothers, John and Joseph] may well be correct," adding,[16]
All of these men [brothers John and Joseph Kingmsan, and "kinsman" Henry of Ipswich] were almost certainly closely related to Henry Kingsbury {1630, Boston} ... who is known to be from Assington, Suffolk ... However the names John, James and Henry are so common in this Kingsbury family that further evidence should be sought in support of this identification. In any case, these Kingsbury immigrants must have come from this small cluster of west Suffolk parishes.
In 2021 authors Melinde Lutz Byrne and John Edward Hardy published a related account, "Three French Daughters ..." in which they did subscribe to the 1905 conclusions and considered three of the immigrants--Henry (of Assington and Boston), John and Joseph Kingsbury, both of Dedham--to have been brothers.[17]
Of the younger immigrant, Henry Kingsbury, the 2021 authors wrote, "[he] had two uncles who came to New England and settled at Dedham," This Henry Kingsbury, b. about 1615, is recognized by the authors as a son of Henry of Assington and Boston--the "grandson" by that name mentioned in James Kingsbury's 1622 will,[18] thus by association, the three brothers are all sons mentioned in the will of James Kingsbury of Boxford.
Key to the analysis by Byrnes and Hardy was their argument that Henry of Assington and Boston had an earlier marriage to Jane Warren, identifying them as the parents of younger immigrant, Henry of Ipswich and Haverhill. Anderson had assumed the elder Henry first married in 1621, and further reporting his birth as "about 1596," based on that marriage date. Thus Anderson pictured the man of Assington as probably too young and certainly not married early enough to have been the father of Henry, born about 1615.

Research continues to better identify Milllicent, Joseph's wife and the mother of all his children. This would aid in the understanding of the family.

Better identifying Jane Warren or Waryn, the first wife of Henry of Assington might further aid in the proof of the Boxford Kingsbury family. Of this Jane, the 2021 authors wrote, "she may have been somehow related to Susan Warren, the mother of Thomas French, Sr.[19]

Better identifying Joseph Kingsbury's brother-in-law, James French (married say 1617, Sarah Kingsbury of Boxford), might further aid in the proof of the Boxford Kingsbury family. This is especially true in light of the 2021 authors record that Joseph's nephew, Henry of Ipswich had wife, Susan French (not Susannah Gage, as she was previously named)--the daughter of Thomas French and his wife, Susan Riddlesdale, also immigrants.

GM Directory entry: Kingsbury, Joseph: Unknown; 1637; Dedham [DeTR 1:32; DeVR 1; DeChR 6; MBCR 1:379; Moore Anc 334-36; Kingsbury Gen 83-85]. Key

Torrey NE Marriages sources: KINGSBURY, Joseph (-1676) & Millicent [AMES?/EAMES?] (-1676+); by 1637; Dedham {Dedham 83; Reg. 16:338; Kingsbury 11; Caldwell Anc. 10; Briggs Anc. 91; Moore Anc. 336; NYGBR 22:78} Key

Sources

  1. Robert Charles Anderson,The Great Migration, Immigrants to New England, 1634-1635, Volume IV, I-L (2005), pp. 183-88 (John Kingsbury article), in particular, p. 186; digital images by subscription, AmericanAncestors.
  2. Melinde Lutz Byrne and John Edward Hardy, "Three French Daughters and Their Husbands ... Amy (French) Gage, Susan (French) Kingsbury, and Anne (French) Hardy," New England Historical and Genealogical Register 175 (2021):104-119; digital images by subscription, AmericanAncestors.
  3. Citing "Harrold 300," Frederick John Kingsbury and Mary Kingsbury Talcott, The Genealogy of the Descendants of Henry Kingsbury Ipswich and Haverhill, Mass. (1905), 52-53; digital images, Hathi Trust. Note: Baptismal records of only two or three of James children appear in the Boxford register.
  4. Massachusetts, Town Clerk, Vital and Town Records, 1627-2001 image 34 of 763 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-9979-RX8W?i=33&cc=2061550
  5. Page 15, Early Dedham Records - https://archive.org/details/earlyrecordsofto01dedh
  6. The Early records of the town of Dedham, Massachusetts, 1636-1659 by Hill, Don Gleason, 1847-1914 Publication date 1892 Vol. 3 p. 3
  7. 7.0 7.1 Robert Charles Anderson,The Great Migration, Immigrants to New England, 1634-1635, Volume IV, I-L (2005), pp. 183-88 (John Kingsbury article), in particular, p. 186; digital images by subscription, AmericanAncestors.
  8. 8.0 8.1 Suffolk County (Massachusetts) Probate Records, 1636-1899; Author: Massachusetts. Probate Court (Suffolk County); Probate Place: Suffolk, Massachusetts Notes: Probate Records, Vol 5-7, 1666-1674. Joseph Kingsbery Senr. public image
  9. .Arthur Murray Kingsbury, Kingsbury Genealogy; the Genealogy of the Descendants of Joseph Kingsbury of Dedham, Massachusetts, Together with the Descendants in Several Lines of Henry Kingsbury of Ipswich, Massachusetts, and Our Canadian Cousins (Minneapolis, 1962), pp. 14-15; digital images, Hathi Trust
  10. Robert Charles Anderson,The Great Migration, Immigrants to New England, 1634-1635, Volume IV, I-L (2005), pp. 183-88 (John Kingsbury article), in particular, p. 186; digital images by subscription, AmericanAncestors.
  11. Don Gleason Hill, compiler, The Record of Baptisms, Marriages & Deaths ...transcribed from the Church Records in the Town of Dedham, MA, 1638-1845 (Dedham, MA: Town of Dedham, 1888), pp. 24-25
  12. Frederick John Kingsbury and Mary Kingsbury Talcott, The Genealogy of the Descendants of Henry Kingsbury Ipswich and Haverhill, Mass. (1905), 83-84; digital images, Hathi Trust.
  13. The early records of the town ..by Dedham (Mass. : Town); Hill, Don Gleason, 1847-1914; Slafter, Carlos, 1825-1909 Publication date 1886 https://archive.org/details/earlyrecordsofto01dedh/page/n15/mode/2up?q=kingsbury
  14. Frederick John Kingsbury and Mary Kingsbury Talcott, The Genealogy of the Descendants of Henry Kingsbury of Ipswich and Haverhill, Mass. (Hartford: Case, Lockwood & Brainard Company, 1905), p. 22; digital images, Hathi Trust;
  15. As a pull out, this chart is viewable in the InternetArchive edition, see Kingsbury and Talcott, The Genealogy of the Descendants of Henry Kingsbury of Ipswich and Haverhill, Mass. (Hartford: Case, Lockwood & Brainard Company, 1905), p. n74 (between pages 44 and 45); digital images, InternetArchive.
  16. Robert Charles Anderson, Great Migration: Immigrants to New England, 1634-1635, Volume IV, I-L, 2005, 183-188, in particular, p. 187; digital images by subscription, AmericanAncestors.
  17. Melinde Lutz Byrne and John Edward Hardy, "Three French Daughters and Their Husbands ... Amy (French) Gage, Susan (French) Kingsbury, and Anne (French) Hardy," New England Historical and Genealogical Register 175 (2021):105-119, in particular, p. 114; digital images by subscription, AmericanAncestors.
  18. Melinde Lutz Byrne and John Edward Hardy, "Three French Daughters and Their Husbands ... Amy (French) Gage, Susan (French) Kingsbury, and Anne (French) Hardy," New England Historical and Genealogical Register 175 (2021):105-119, in particular, 113 and 113n; digital images by subscription, AmericanAncestors.
  19. Citing "Threlfall, 'Thomas French of Assington' [note 1] Register 142:250-252," Melinde Lutz Byrne and John Edward Hardy, "Three French Daughters and Their Husbands ... Amy (French) Gage, Susan (French) Kingsbury, and Anne (French) Hardy," New England Historical and Genealogical Register 175 (2021):112; digital images by subscription, AmericanAncestors. Authors note: "Threlfall was unable to reliably sort the Warrens in surviving records."

See also:

  • Henry A. Kingsbury, Re: Kingsbury Dedham, MA c. 1780 (GenForum Post), dated 24 Jan 2001, includes a lengthy post of information from data sent him by Michael Kingsbury, of Atlanta 7 Oct 2000.
  • William B. Trask, “Abstracts from the earliest wills on record in the county of Suffolk, Mass.,” The New England Historical and Genealogical Register 10 (1856):176 for “John Kingsbery, of Dedham”; digital images, Hathi Trust (accessed 2014).
  • Addison Kingsbury and Joseph Addison Kingsbury, A pendulous edition of Kingsbury genealogy, gathered by Rev. Addison Kingsbury (1901), 13, for Joseph (1) Kingsbury; digital images, Hathi Trust (accessed 2014).
  • Arthur Murray Kingsbury, Kingsbury genealogy; the genealogy of the descendants of Joseph Kingsbury of Dedham, Massachusetts, together with the descendants in several lines of Henry Kingsbury of Ipswich, Massachusetts, and our Canadian cousins (1962), 14-15, for Joseph Kingsbury (1600-1676); digital images, Hathi Trust (accessed 2014).
  • Robert Charles Anderson, _Great Migration- Immigrants to New England, 1634-1635, Volume IV, I-L_ (2005) page 187 public image for a discussion on the Kingsburys of Massachusetts and Boxford.




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Comments: 44

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Joseph Kingsberye is found in Dedham in 1636. See

https://web.cortland.edu/wheeler/Genealogy/Appendices/appendix%2000%20V%202.pdf

Which has the names of the first settlers of Dedham

posted by Anne X
Thanks Anne, I added this information. We don't know for sure when he signed the covenant, since men apparently signed it as they moved to Dedham. It was initially apparently signed 15 August 1636. Personally I think it likely he signed before the 1637 land transaction in order to be allowed to actually own land in Dedham.
posted by Brad Stauf
Believe the PGM locked status (PPP) needs to be lifted on Kingsbury-3183 so that it can be merged into Kingsbury-37

Thank you, --Gene

posted on Kingsbury-3183 (merged) by GeneJ X
Thank you Jeanie.

If no one has any objections, I will update his narrative.

posted by GeneJ X
Kingsbury-37 and Kingsbury-3183 appear to represent the same person because: As part of the 2021 update, we have merged the fathers and should now merge this son.
posted on Kingsbury-3183 (merged) by GeneJ X
As time permits, please add Anne Francis as mother.
posted on Kingsbury-3183 (merged) by GeneJ X
Kingsbury-41 and Kingsbury-37 appear to represent the same person because: See related G2G question, Is John Kingsbury ... a confused duplicate ...

Also, comments on profile of his "brother" Joseph Kingsbury.

posted by GeneJ X
This one is a bit confusing too. The bio reads as if he is not the son of James Kingsbury-30, but then the father for both this profile and -3183 is -30. I am trying to determine which information should be retained in the merge. Thank you.
posted by S (Hill) Willson
Hi,

Because it could not be proven that immigrants Henry of Assington and Boston, and known brothers, immigrants to Dedham, John and Joseph Kingsbury, were all the sons by those names born to James Kingsbury (d. Boxford, England, 1622) the immigrant profiles were severed from the father James.

Then new "child" profile were created for James' known sons, all called out in his will.

The Spring 2021 journal article provides the support needed to prove that the three immigrants (Henry of Assington and Boston, and John and Joseph of Dedham) are indeed brothers and the sons of James of Boxford.

We are now merging each of those newer "child profiles" into the established "immigrant profiles."

Does that help?

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
I think it might. However, in the bio of -3183 it says that James Kingsley-30 is not his father....?

Perhaps what would make it simpler is to have one of these two profiles have a complete set of correct information so that the other bio can be essentially replaced with the correct information. Otherwise, it is difficult to pick and choose which information to retain. For example, disputed origin or no disputed origin; wife or no wife; children or no children; death info..? On this pair of profiles, -3183 looks to have a more complete set of information, albeit with some carryover information such as disputed origins and father.

Does that make sense? I'm not trying to make extra work, just trying to make sure I end up with all the correct info in the merged profile. Thank you

posted by S (Hill) Willson
edited by S (Hill) Willson
Humm... perhaps I have that backwards, in that new profiles were established for the immigrants.

In any event, they are now being put back together, so that the profiles of James sons are also the profiles of the immigrants.

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
Maybe this would be easier. If you are available, I'll unlock both profiles and let you do the merge since you know what goes with what...?
posted by S (Hill) Willson
We are available.

(I just want to make sure each of the paired profiles (immigrant and child) are unlocked, so that the higher profile/surname number is indeed merged into the lower profile/surname number.

posted by GeneJ X
The Joseph pair is ready and unlocked. Let me know when you're done and I'll add it back. Then we can proceed with his brother John.
posted by S (Hill) Willson
I have been working on John's merge, more specifically, updating the profile in the merge window. I'm almost done. There may be some clean up afterwards, as I spot duplication in some of the narrative. Hope to post his merge shortly.

Then will work on Joseph.

(Note, a draft of the updated profile for Henry Kingsbury of Assington and Boston was written some time back; posted as a free space page, Henry Kingsbury 2021 Update.)

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
Margaret at Deedham (her will called out a kinswoman Hannah Flowers ...) was John's widow.

She is yet to be proven as a Margaret Whisson at England who married a John Kingsbury.

posted by GeneJ X
Kingsbury-43 and Kingsbury-37 appear to represent the same person because: See related G2G question, "Is John Kingsbury b 1569 a confused duplicate of ..." and comment on Joseph (Kingsbury-43) profile.
posted by GeneJ X
Have adopted this unsourced, orphaned profile, and that of his "brother" John.

I find no justification for Joseph's birth--there are no Kingsbury baptisms reported for the year 1573. See transcribed Boxford Register. https://hdl.handle.net/2027/loc.ark:/13960/t1zc80k5m?urlappend=%3Bseq=50 Unsourced profile reports he died (no date) "Enfield, Hartford, Connecticut Colony."

Will of James Kingsbury (d. 1590), linked as father, mentions several children, but no Joseph and no John.

Are these fols, John and Joseph, real persons? In the alternative, perhaps someone has confused the two generations of men, James Kingsbury.

Likely so ...

The second "extra" son linked to James (d. 1590} and Agnes--John Kingsbury, with reported birth "1569" Boxford. He almost certainly should be John, son of James (d. 1622) and Anne, of Boxford.

As the extra son, "John" should be the son of James (d. 1622), most likely this Joseph (d. in New England) is confused entry and should also be son of James (d. 1622).

Have asked a related G2G question, "Is John Kingsbury b. 1569 a confused duplicate ....

I plan to set a pending merge for John (Kingsbury-41) and John (Kingsbury-34) also Joseph (Kingsbury-43) and Joseph (Kingsbury-37).

posted on Kingsbury-43 (merged) by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
Have added an unmerged match between this profile of immigrant Joseph Kingsbury, son of Unknown Kingsbury and that of Joseph Kingsbury, son of James Kingsbury (dec'd Boxford 1622).

Basis for the proposed merge is presented in some detail at Update as to Origins.

posted on Kingsbury-3183 (merged) by GeneJ X
Have proposed an unmerged match between the immigrant, Joseph Kingsbury, son of unknown Kingsbury, and this Joseph Kingsbury, son of James Kingsbury, dec'd 1622 Boxford.

Basis for the proposed merge is presented in some detail at Update as to Origins.

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
We have no proof whether or not these 2 Joseph Kingsburys are the same person or are different people, but for now, they have separate profiles:

Joseph Kingsbury-37 of Boxford, Eng., son of James & Anne, and Joseph Kingsbury-3183 of Dedham, Mass., brother of John.

posted on Kingsbury-3183 (merged) by Mary Jo (Willard) Freeman
But now I see why you're confused, I neglected to swap the children of Joseph of Dedham over to the new profile. Sigh. Hold tight, I'll get that done.
posted by Brad Stauf
Thanks. I'm posting here the links for the 2 Joseph Kingsburys--just on the chance that they might be the same person:

Joseph Kingsbury-37 of Boxford, Eng., son of James & Anne, and Joseph Kingsbury-3183 of Dedham, Mass., brother of John.

posted by Mary Jo (Willard) Freeman
edited by Mary Jo (Willard) Freeman
I'm a little confused. We know that James Kingsbury and Anne Francis had a son named Joseph. And we know that a Joseph Kingsbury and his brother John came to New England. We don't know if these are the same Joseph. So .... are we making 2 pages for each of these Josephs and assuming they are different, or are we keeping them on the same page, but indicating that we are unsure of the parentage?
Mary Jo, I have separated the "Boxford" Kingsburys from the "Massachusetts" Kingsburys. You are right, James K. & Anne Francis had sons named John, Joseph, Henry etc etc. There were also a pair of brothers, John & Joseph Kingsbury in Dedham, Mass. along with at least 2 other Henry Kingsburys, one in Boston and one in Ipswich and all those Massachusetts folks were likely related in some unknown way. These are all separate profiles now, with research notes about how they "might" be related, and it is "possible" that John & Joseph of Massachusetts are the same John & Joseph of Boxford, but it is absolutely not proven. Hopefully that clears up the relationship.

Also, we have made the Boxford folks "PGM Adjunct" meaning they were not proven early immigrants to New England, but they are "of interest" to the PGM project. That way we can protect them from merges being done without some oversight and review.

Here's a little cheat-sheet I made to help keep them organized: Boxford James-30 Sons: -John-34 -Joseph-37 -Thomas-29 -Henry-3171 -James-32

Boston -Henry-35 --wife Margaret Alabaster Blyth-3

Ipswich and Haverhill -Henry-21 --wife Susannah Gage-143

Dedham Unknown father-3182 (new) -John-3181 (new) --wife Margaret Unknown-545494 -Joseph-3183 (new) --wife Millicent Ames-88

posted by Brad Stauf
edited by Brad Stauf
PGM adjunct, PPP on this profile

Are the children on this profile correct? Please check, Thank you.

No, they are wrong, I didn't catch that earlier. I need to move them all over to Kingsbury-3183. Done.
posted by Brad Stauf
edited by Brad Stauf
Anderson is pretty clear that there is not enough information to identify the parents. It seems like all four of the Kingsbury immigrants could be tied to these parents, but the only relationship that is clearly defined is that John & Joseph were brothers. I suggest we detach the parents.
posted by M Cole
Agree that there is some speculation but I just got done rewriting this profile (also did his maybe-brother Thomas) to indicate that it is possible but not certain that the sons-of-James are also the men-of-Massachusetts, at least John & Joseph. Your thoughts welcome on leaving them attached with appropriate text, or detaching?
posted by Brad Stauf
I'm a profile manager becasue these Kingsburys are very far back in my wife's line - Joseph would be her 9th great-granduncle, if Henry is actually a brother of Joseph. I have no additional information to shed on the line and I'll support detaching them if that is the preferred choice.
posted by David Nikkel
Just a note to say it is my understanding that if we detach the parents, there would be nothing connecting John & Joseph as brothers, unless a new profile for the father "Unknown Kingsbury" is created.

I'll await the consensus of the group collaborating here. Thank you.

I agree with having an unknown Kingsbury father so the brothers (John & Joseph) can be attached, OR someone can put an active link in each profile to the other brother. Joseph is my ancestor, but I am not one of the managers.
posted by Mary Jo (Willard) Freeman
edited by Mary Jo (Willard) Freeman
This profile is in need of research and sources. Anderson say's he may have been a relative of Henry Kingsbury but relationship not known. He was of Dedham by 1638. Need source for parents. Anderson does not place him in the 1630 Winthrop Fleet, need a source for this. His marriage also needs research there are conflicting dates and places.
will one of the profile managers please step forward to follow through? It would be very much appreciated.

if not, perhaps a PGM volunteer has time? Thanks.

Cheryl PGM Leader

Hello Jeanie and Cheryl. I agree this profile needs work. If memory serves, I created a duplicate of this profile which was later merged with this older one. My profile had only the barest information and it originated from FamilySearch.org (https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/KLCD-CFK) at the time. Going back to the Family Search profile, the dates have been further changed so that even they do not agree with dates that I had when I created the duplicate profile here. If the FamilySearch tree is correct, then Joseph was my wife's 9th great-granduncle. I'm afraid that I don't have any sources that would allow me to help clarify the situation.
posted by David Nikkel
There are a few good sources on his wife Millicent's profile. I'm afraid I don't have time currently to work on this one.
posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
Anyone else step up? whenever you have the time. thanks.

Thank you to Jeanie, David, and Bobbie for your insights and comments.

Working on it. Finished Thomas-Kingsbury-29.
posted by Brad Stauf
Kingsbury-37 and Kingsbury-2307 appear to represent the same person because: Clearly the same person. Same parents, same location of birth and of death. Very similar DOD, similar DOB. Also, the biography for Kingsbury-2307 lists Millicent Ames as his, which agrees with the profile for Kingsbury-37
posted on Kingsbury-2307 (merged) by Miguel Kelley
Kingsbury-997 and Kingsbury-37 appear to represent the same person because: Clearly the same person.
posted by David Winters P.E.
While Joseph and John Kingsbury were definitely brothers, it has not been confirmed that they were both sons of James Kingsbury and Anne Francis.
posted by Jillaine Smith
Do we know which one was a son of James Kingsbury and Anne Francis?
Hi Mary Jo:

Thanks for the edits/sources added to the profile!

I think the answer is going to be the same here as it was for Henry Kingsbury...we just don't have enough information to confirm the parents for the Kingsbury, New England immigrants, or their relationships with each other beyond the fact Joseph and John were brothers. We know that Henry and Joseph weren't brothers (but kinsmen), but now we've discussed both of them as possible sons of James and Anne. With the names being so common in the Kingsbury family, we need more information before tying them to specific parents.

This profile needs probably needs to be updated, and the parents replaced with an Unknown Kingsbury as the father to connect the two brothers. Then we can add links in the bio, and discuss the evidence and theories. With the will information you've added to the English profiles, that will be much easier now.

posted by M Cole
Mary Jo, you might be interested in this g2g post about the Kingsbury ancestry that explains some of the issues with the English ancestry: https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/77401/henry-kingsbury-1687-pgm-proposal-sever-conflicted-parents
posted by M Cole