John Lewis
Privacy Level: Open (White)

John Lewis (abt. 1594 - 1657)

John Lewis
Born about in Monmouthshire, Walesmap
Son of [father unknown] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
[spouse(s) unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died at about age 63 in Gloucester County, Colony of Virginiamap
Problems/Questions Profile manager: US Southern Colonies Project WikiTree private message [send private message]
Profile last modified | Created 6 Aug 2010
This page has been accessed 20,129 times.
US Southern Colonies.
John Lewis resided in the Southern Colonies in North America before 1776.
Join: US Southern Colonies Project
Discuss: southern_colonies

Contents

Biography

Flag of Wales
John Lewis migrated from Wales to Virginia.
Flag of Virginia

John Lewis was born circa 1594 in Monmouthshire, Wales.[1] (A prior birth date of 22 Feb 1592 has been removed. There was a John Lewis of Llantillio Pertholey that was baptised on that date, but he has been proven to be a different man. See research notes below.)

John died on 21 August 1657, aged 63 years, and was buried in the Lewis family cemetery, on 250 acres at the head of a branch belonging to Poroptanke Creek, called Lewis Creek, but formerly Totopotomoys Creek in Gloucester County, Virginia, which Mr. John Lewis held by patent dated July 1653, for the importation of himself and the four persons listed below into the colony (Virginia Land Patents, Book No 3, page 4):[1]

  1. John Lewis (Jr)
  2. Wm Lewis
  3. Edward Lewis
  4. Lidia Lewis

(John Jr and Edward were John's sons. William was also family. It's speculated that Lidia may have been a wife of John, but there is no evidence for that, and it's never been clearly established who she was.)

The discovery of John Lewis' tombstone by R Tyler Bland was written about by his friend, Malcolm H Harris in an article published in April 1948. The tombstone is missing 1/3 of the upper part and approximately 1/3 of the lower part, and on the remaining section of the stone was inscribed a fragment of a coat of arms and the following:[1]

Here lieth interred the body
of Iohn Lewis (borne in
Munmoth Shire) died the 21th of
August 1657 aged 63 years
the anagram of his name
I shew no ill

John Lewis' grave was in New Kent County from which King and Queen County was created on 16 April 1691.[2]

In 1949, Malcolm Hart Harris and George Carrington Mason found several additional Lewis family tombstones in the cemetery near Plain View in what is now King and Queen county. One of these was the tombstone of John's grandson, Captain Edward Lewis (1667-1713), carved with a coat of arms of which Harris identified the arms of Lewis of Brecon (Wales) in the first quarter and Howell in the second quarter but was unable to identify the other arms in the other two quarters, the arms in the third quarter has one chevron (compared to his grandfather's which has three chevronells in that quarter).[3]

Emigration - Two dates have been found in notes; research needed to correct discrepancy.

Date 1: Arrival: 1636, Colony of Virginia[4]

Residence: 1651, Colony of Virginia [5]

Date 2: 01 JUL 1653. Note: John Lewis, age about 60, transported on the Globe with John Lewis, Jr., William Lewis, Edward Lewis, and Lida Lewis, July 1, 1653 to Poroptanke Creek, VA

A number of reputable genealogies have been published on the Lewis family, the most comprehensive being that which was compiled by Merrow Edgerton Sorley in 1935, "Lewis of Warner Hall, The History of a Family", often quoted in other genealogies covered by this compiler (vvz). Nonetheless, there were several errors in this work, pointed out by Grace McLean Moses in her work "The Welsh Lineage of John Lewis (1592-1657) Emigrant to Gloucester, Virginia", 1984, reprinted 1992 Genealogical Publishing Co., Baltimore, pp. 1-60, with Supplement, pp. 61-68. The most notable error in Sorley's work proposed that Robert Lewis[6] was the immigrating ancestor of the Lewis family of Warner Hall.

Notes: [[ |Lidia (Lydia) Lewis has never been positively identified; she was most likely the wife of William but could have been John Lewis (Sr)'s [3rd] wife.

Wm Lewis is found soon after the 1653 patent as Major William Lewis: "Judging from his title one would expect him to be a man of 'middle age' and could well have earned it in England or Wales in the Civil War ... he was also a man with considerable means for he proceeded to purchase over 10,000 acres in the next five years... He appears to have died between 1658-1667." No doubt there was a family relationship between William Lewis and John Lewis, Jr. for the latter was the heir to "Port Holly" (possibly named for Pertholey in Wales) which William had purchased from Col. John West in 1658. The "Port Holly" estate, also known as "Chemokins", went to a son of John Lewis, Jr. - namely Councilor John Lewis of Warner Hall, thus cementing the line from John Lewis the Emigrant to those of Warner Hall. Mrs. Moses strongly suggests that William Lewis was a brother to Johane Lewis, late wife of John, and therefore John's brother-in-law.

The first mention of an Edward Lewis is when he, with Thomas Robinson, received a grant of 1140 acres in Rappahannock County on 20 Feb 1662; presuming he reached his majority about 1662 would indicate he was born about 1641 in Wales. St. Tielo's Register becomes incomplete after 1640 which may account for why his baptism is not found. In Nov 1663 Humphrey Booth of Rappahannock County mentions a bequest to 'Edward, the son of Edward Lewis' of 'two cows'. The deduction being that Edward Lewis married a daughter of Humphrey Booth and had a son, Edward. Mrs. Moses never states that Edward was the son of John the Emigrant, but seems to suggest that possibility.

Note: from the date now known of his baptism that age given should probably have been 65.

The tombstone had been engraved with a Coat of Arms (as was that of his grandson, Capt. Edward Lewis, found nearby) which proved that the family was Welch. The Coat was divided into four quarters. The first was recognized as the arms of Rhys Goch, an ancient ruler of Wales; this would link this family to the Lewises of Brecon. The next quarter was also recognized as that of the Prince of Caerlleon, the Howell family. What was not in doubt was that the other three quarters represented heiresses of such prominence that their Coat of Arms warranted being included on the shield of John Lewis, the Virginia emigrate.

Mrs. Moses presents what appears to be a very carefully researched paper, going into great detail about how certain clues were found and followed up on. While she presents a great deal of circumstantial evidence that John Lewis who died in 1657 Gloucester Co., VA is the same as the one who is found in 1592 at St. Teilo, there is no silver bullet that identifies this positively. Here the reader will basically find the results of her dedicated search, rather than all the why and how various clues were followed.

A search of the Register of St. Teilo Church, located at Llantilio Pertholey, revealed [Moses, pp. 11-12]:

John Lewis "Rycketts" [colloquialism for Richards, translated: "John, son of Lewis, son of Richard"], bp 22 Feb 1591/2 (here we have a John Lewis baptized two years before John Lewis, the Emigrants indicated birth year 1594 - from tombstone - Mrs. Moses had previously been informed that the records should be checked two years before and after, such a date).

Note: often in these early records the last name is found as Prichard, Rychard and Pricket, all are colloquialisms for "ap Richard", which translates to "son on Richard". By 1633 it appears that the patronymic system sees to have been abandoned, when John Lewis Pricket becomes simply John Lewis.

Before continuing with the research itself, it is essential for the reader to understand that Heraldic Arms - in Welsh history and genealogy - are of the upper most importance. As throughout England, strict rules applied to their use not only anciently, but also during the colonial period in Virginia. No man could claim arms that he was not legally entitled to bear. It is also interesting to note that the arms where not actually borne by the illustrious ancestor himself but devised after his death and borne by succeeding generations. Another point about the Welsh: "Major Francis Jones, former Herald Extraordinary of Wales, wrote: 'The structure of Welsh society from very early times was essentially aristocratic, and it remained so until the destruction of Henry VIII of the legal concept that buttressed it. The Welsh theory was that no one could be a freeman, inherit property, enjoy privileges, or be received into the community, unless he could prove an agnatic ancestry for a certain number of generations" (Heraldry and the Herald, p. 64). [Moses, p. 16]

The quarters of the Coat of Arms found on the gravestone of John Lewis the emigrant have been identified as follows - 1st quarter "a dragon's head erased vert, holding in its mouth a sinister hand gules": was quickly identified as belonging to Rhys Goch ("the red-haired"), Lord of Ystad-Yw and Ewyas. The antecedents of Rhys Goch were the Lords of Brecknock, established in the parish of Llanelly, Breconshire, for centuries. When going to the English style of surnames they finally settled on Lewis; and thus identified John Lewis, the Emigrant as a member of the Lewis family of Brecon.

Note: "The line of Rhys Goch is an illustrious one! There are fourteen generations of the family from the Emigrant ancestor to the present adult generation in Virginia. There are fourteen generations from John Lewis (born in Monmouthshire in 1591/2) back to Rhys Goch ("the red-haired"), Lord of Ystrad-Yw and Ewyas. (footnote: "The History of Monmouthshrie, by Bradney, pp. 338-339.) There are fourteen generations back from Maenyrch (father of Rhys Goch) back to Caradawg Freichfras ("the brawny-armed"), Knight of King Arthur's Round Table; (footnote: "Llyfr Baglan", pp. 94, 94n, 120.) and lastly, there are five more generations back from Caradawg to Coel Godeborg, "ancient King of Britain" (footnote: Ibid, p. 120.) going back approximately to 385 A.D. In all, there are forty-seven generations of this line - documented as well as it is possible to do so - back into the mists of Welsh History and Genealogy. It is a most unusual genealogy, and it would not have been possible if it were not the "unique" system of Bards which the Celtic people originated. [Moses, p. 37]
2nd quarter "Gules, three towers tripled-towered Argent": has always been known as that of the Prince of Caerlleon, the Howell family. This came to be when the son of Rhys Goch, Genillin (Cynhyllyn) married Jenet, d/o Sir Howell of Caerlleon. A Grant of Arms was given to him in the eleventh century (footnote: Letter from Dr. Michael Siddons, outstanding authority on Welsh "Heraldry", dated 5 Jun 1983, giving the citation of the Grant as Cardif MSS 2-38, f. 40) and Bradney reiterates this connection in the Pedigree of Maenyrch in his History.
3rd quarter "three Chevronels": has now been identified as that of the De Turberville family of Crickhowell in Brecon. It would have been added to the Lewis shield by Richard Lewis of Llangattuck Crickhowell (John Lewis, the Emigrant's grandfather) as it represents the ancestors of his mother, a family who owned the Castle Crickhowell and who lived in the parish Llanelly. Richard's father, Lewis ap Thomas, married Maud, daughter of Thomas Lewis John ap Gwilym, Lord of Turberville and Coytie. 4th quarter "of three plates": undoubtedly that of the wife of John Lewis. Here Mrs. Moses is presuming that Johane Lewis was John Lewis' only wife, these Arms would show her descent from the Lewises of Llanddewi Rhydderch and Llanddewi Ysgyrid in Monmouthshire, descended on the distaff side from Sir Walter de Trevely, a Norman Knight who also came into Wales at the time of the Norman Conquest with Bernard de Newmarsh. In those times Sir Walter de Trevely owned most of the parish of Llanddewi Rhydderch and he bore as his arms "Azure three plates". [Moses, p. 12] However, Robert J.C.K. Lewis in his "Lewis Patriarchs of Early Virginia and Maryland with Some Arms and Origins" (1991) says that John probably had a second wife Catherine Philip and that: "If she was of the Philip family of Dyffyn Tudwal, they had also married a De Trevely heiress, and would have quartered those arms with theirs (Herbert), just as did the Lewis (Wallis) family of his first wife."

A search of the records of the Lordship of Abergavenny was made, since the Lords of Abergavenny held a great deal of land in the area, in "tenements" (property held for another). It is interesting to note that the town of Abergavenny was less than two miles from Llantilio Pertholey. John Lewis was indeed found among these records. He was sometimes referred to as "Merchant", sometimes as "Mercer", and sometimes as "Burgess". (It was determined that he was the John Lewis named Senior Burgess to the town of Abergavenny on 9 Nov 1638 (History of Monmouthshire, by Bradney, p. 153). Even more revealing he was sometimes called, "Gentleman", denoting "arms-bearing". John occupied 1½ tenements on High Street, which consisted of two houses, with a yard and garden that stretched back to the ancient wall of the Town. John acquired them from Stephen Hughes, a Vintner and his wife Maria (who had obtained them from David Nicholas), the payment for the first transaction in September 1616 (probably coinciding with the death of John's father, Lewis, on 4 May 1616) for £203. Regarding a 1627 rental, a list of Burgesses in the town detailed their tenements. This provided the fact that there was only one John Lewis among the Burgesses, and he was said to live in his "burgage tenement".

"Within the borough, the standard unit of land was the burgage, the tenure of which gave the hold the privileges and status of a burgess. He was expected to perform a number of duties and obligations to the community as a whole, the fundamental being centered on the defense of the borough. The burgage plots, which would have fronted that first street, assumed a characteristic shape - long and narrow with a tenement at the front and the remainder used either as a garden or workshop and yards connected with the particular trade of the tenant. They were almost all let at a fixed, almost standard, rental of one shilling a year. The plots were not uniform in size, varying considerably from town to town and even within towns" (Medieval Abergavenny, by Gwyn Jones). A search for more information on the burgage tenements was conducted, but their precise nature could not be determined. There were two transactions - the one previously mentioned in September 1616 and another in May 1618, the amount of money involved would lead one to believe they were for a purchase. It appeared two adjacent tenements were involved, though this was unclear as the descriptions were not precise. [Moses, pp. 18-20]

Research Notes

Disputed Origins

Research to determine his parents is required. Some online trees show:

Interested descendants may want to view this book published in 1992: The Welsh Lineage of John Lewis (1592-1657), Emigrant to Gloucester, Virginia, By Grace McLean Moses . See below in Research Notes for comments regarding this book.

Additional Notes

After Lewis ap Richard's early death, his son John Lewis Prichard (our emigrant ancestor, later called John Lewis after the end of the Patronymic naming system) was raised by his Uncle Edward.[7]

Richard Lewis, of Llangatock Crickhowell, Breconshire, Gent. d. 1628 = Nest, daughter of Thomas ap Gwlym ap Llewelyn of Llanelli, Breconshire. Lewis Prichard (ap Richard) aka as Rycketts (Richard) of Llantilio Pertholey, Monmouthshire (d. 1616) = Catherine (d. 1615) Bur. Llantilio Pertholey. Son John Lewis Rycketts (Later just John Lewis) bapt. 22 Feb 1591/2, St. Telios, Llantilio Pertholey - d. 21 Aug 1657 Poropotank Creek. VA. [8]

The below information is from this website:

Arthur Price commented: "Grace Moses is probably right in saying that John Lewis the emigrant comes from the ancestral line she puts forward in her booklet. But in the detail she is totally wrong, and this is easily proved. I have looked at the Llantilio Pertholey Church register in the Gwent Archives several times and sure enough there is the baptism of (and I quote)- "John ye son of Lewis Ryketts baptised Feb 22 1591″. However Moses did not go on to find in the same register (and I quote again), " John Lewis Rickett buried Jan 3rd 1668″. So John Lewis Rickett was emphatically not the John Lewis who went to America and as a consequence Moses further arguments fail at the first hurdle."

He further commented, " I am glad you have incorporated the information I gave you, but perhaps I didn't go far enough in my comment of 23 October 2016. John Lewis the emigrant had nothing at all to do with the parish of Llantillio Pertholey (in Welsh Llandeilo Bertholau). He was not born there, did not live there, did not get married there, did not have children there. Also his parents had no connection with the parish. John Lewis Rickett was from an entirely different unconnected family; a poor labourer, who never left the parish. Therefore all the family connections Grace Moses makes in her book regarding the Lewis family in the parish and wider locality are wrong; as I have been able to prove. Moses confused dates, times, places and people. She combined at least three different John Lewis' into the same person,non of whom are the correct one. I have been researching this for the last ten years and have documentary evidence to prove it. You could say that this leaves the search for John Lewis at exactly the same place as when his gravestone was discovered in America. ….. John Lewis born in Monmothshire c.1594….. Parish unknown! But not quite. Interestingly the first articles about him after the grave stone was discovered suggest that the family consisted of John, his wife Lydia and two sons, they being born in the order they are given. I have found a John Lewis from a minor but well off family, who featured in local wills etc. He has a wife and two children (names unknown). The Lewis family of Llangattock, Breconshire, had land connections with the parish they came from in Monmouthshire. This John Lewis is in a Parliamentry government c.1650 list of those not to be pardoned for their Royalist activity during the civil war. Near where he lived and in the same parish is a large wood called…… wait for it…… Bertholey. Can I prove this is the correct John Lewis. No, not yet.

Since John Lewis is not one of the 240 Gateway Ancestors documented by Douglas Richardson in Magna Carta Ancestry, he is not within the scope of the Magna Carta Project. To have him included in the project, primary sources would be needed to support parent/child relationships until his trail connects to someone who is documented by Richardson (in either Magna Carta Ancestry or Royal Ancestry - the latter being preferred as it was published in 2013 & MCA was published in 2011).

Note: Life and Migration Info on John Lewis b~1592 Monmouthshire Wales UK http://trees.ancestry.com/rd?f=document&guid=ace48470-0628-46d1-ab88-e0e0e02f3028&tid=15289954&pid=2770

Marriage: Johane Lewis, 03 Feb 1610 Llantilio Pertholey, Monmouthshire, England[9][10]


Ancestry.com trees usually have John's wife as a Liddea Warner. I believe this comes from a source that lists a Lidea as having immigrated with John and his sons to America.

In "The Welsh Lineage of John Lewis" however, it's stated that no one has been able to ascertain exactly who Lidea was... it's suggested she's a second wife of John or wife to one of his sons.

Most sources list John Lewis as having had two wives: Johane Lewis and Catherine Philip. More research needed to correct this.

Sources

  1. 1.0 1.1 1.2 Malcolm H Harris, "John Lewis (1594-1657) of Monmouthshire, England, and Gloucester and New Kent Counties, Virginia." The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography LVI, no. 2 (1948): 195-205. (Subscription required : accessed 5 June 2016).
  2. FamilySearch Wiki contributors, "King and Queen County, Virginia Genealogy," FamilySearch Wiki, (https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=King_and_Queen_County,_Virginia_Genealogy&oldid=2556348 : accessed June 5, 2016).
  3. Malcolm Hart Harris, "Captain Edward Lewis (1667-1713) of King and Queen County, Virginia, and His Family." The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography LXI, no 4 (1954): 477-88. (Subscription required : accessed 5 June 2016).
  4. Source: #S-2059540563 Page: Place: Virginia; Year: 1636; Page Number: . Note: Ancestry Record pili354 #4115842 Note: Data: Text: Arrival date: 1636 Arrival place: Virginia APID: 1,7486::4115842
  5. Source: #S-1487156299 Note: Ancestry Record vacen #33983594 Note: Data: Text: Residence date: 1651 Residence place: Virginia Colony, VA APID: 1,3578::33983594
  6. See the "Disambiguation" details on this profile (accessed May 19, 2017).
  7. http://lewisathome.com/lewis/book/chapter-6-lewis-ap-richard-lewis-prichard-prickett-ryckett/
  8. https://www.senclewises.com/history2.html
  9. Source: #S-2067411980 Page: Source number: 754.000; Source type: Electronic Database; Number of Pages: 1; Submitter Code: PKS. Note: Ancestry Record worldmarr_ga #740405 Note: Data: Text: Birth date: 1592 Birth place: MO Marriage date: 1610 Marriage place: St APID: 1,7836::740405
  10. Source: #S-2067411980 Page: Source number: 754.000; Source type: Electronic Database; Number of Pages: 1; Submitter Code: PKS. Note: Ancestry Record worldmarr_ga #738948 Note: Data: Text: Birth date: 1592 Birth place: MO Marriage date: 1610 Marriage place: St APID: 1,7836::738948

See also:

  • Find a Grave, database and images (www.findagrave.com memorial/55864062/john-lewis : accessed 01 June 2021), memorial page for John "The Emmigrant" Lewis (22 Feb 1592–21 Aug 1657), Find A Grave: Memorial #55864062, citing Lewis Family Cemetery. Poropotank Creek, King and Queen County, Virginia, USA ; Maintained by Marc (contributor 47413286).
  • Ancestral File Number: 8LVK-47
  • John Lewis DNA test in the WARNER HALL Group.
  • Cheshire, England, Select Bishop's Transcripts, 1576-1933
  • England, Select Bristol Parish Registers, 1538-1900
  • Gloucestershire Archives; Gloucestershire, England; Gloucestershire Anglican Parish Registers; Reference Number: P76 IN 1/2
  • Gloucestershire, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1813
  • Gale Research, Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s; Place: Virginia; Year: 1636; Page Number: 205
  • Virginia Immigrants, 1623-1666
  • Web: Netherlands, GenealogieOnline Trees Index, 1000-Current
  • Lewis Patriarchs of Early Virginia and Maryland, 3rd ed. by Robert JCK Lewis
  • http://lewis-genealogy.org/genealogy/Lewis/Councilor-95.htm which is based heavily on the above book.
  • Moses, Grace McLean. The Welsh Lineage of John Lewis (1592-1657), Emigrant to Gloucester, Virginia. Baltimore, MD, USA: Genealogical Publishing Co., 2002.
  • Source: S-1487156299 Repository: #R-2139939163 Title: Virginia Census, 1607-1890 Author: Jackson, Ron V., Accelerated Indexing Systems, comp. Publication: Online publication - Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 1999.Original data - Compiled and digitized by Mr. Jackson and AIS from microfilmed schedules of the U.S. Federal Decennial Census, territorial/state censuses, and/or census substitutes.Orig Note: APID: 1,3578::0
  • Repository: R-2139939163 Name: Ancestry.com Address: http://www.Ancestry.com Note:
  • Source: S-2059540563 Repository: #R-2139939163 Title: Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s Author: Gale Research Publication: Online publication - Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc, 2010.Original data - Filby, P. William, ed. Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s. Farmington Hills, MI, USA: Gale Research, 2010.Original data: Filby, P. William, ed. Passenge Note: APID: 1,7486::0
  • Source: S-2067411965 Repository: #R-2139939163 Title: Family Data Collection - Deaths Author: Edmund West, comp. Publication: Online publication - Provo, UT, USA: The Generations Network, Inc., 2001. Note: APID: 1,5771::0
  • Source: S-2067411980 Repository: #R-2139939163 Title: U.S. and International Marriage Records, 1560-1900 Author: Yates Publishing Publication: Online publication - Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2004.Original data - This unique collection of records was extracted from a variety of sources including family group sheets and electronic databases. Originally, the information was derived Note: APID: 1,7836::0
  • Source: S-2067412026 Repository: #R-2139939163 Title: Ancestry Family Trees Publication: Online publication - Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com. Original data: Family Tree files submitted by Ancestry members. Note: This information comes from 1 or more individual Ancestry Family Tree files. This source citation points you to a current version of those files. Note: The owners of these tree files may have removed or changed information since this source citation was created. Page: Ancestry Family Trees Note: Data: Text: https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tree/15289954/family




Sponsored Search by Ancestry.com

DNA
No known carriers of John's DNA have taken a DNA test.

Have you taken a DNA test? If so, login to add it. If not, see our friends at Ancestry DNA.



Comments: 45

Leave a message for others who see this profile.
There are no comments yet.
Login to post a comment.
Lewis-8127 and Lewis-241 do not represent the same person because: not the same DOD
posted by Aline Barbeau
According to Moses' book 'The Welsh Lineage of John Lewis (1592-1657), Emigrant to Gloucester, Virginia' (p 5)" "The name Lida is as yet not accounted for, but the author proposes that she was the wife of Major William Lewis."

The bio above notes in one place: "Lidia (Lydia) Lewis has never been positively identified; she was most likely the wife of William but could have been John Lewis (Sr)'s [3rd] wife."

It seems, unless I'm missing something, that he shouldn't be attached to Lydia as spouse.

Thanks Darlene. Since no one has replied with any objection, I plan to detach her.
posted by Scott McClain
how can this profile have 2 different sons with the same name? it shows 2 different sons named John Lewis jr. no one does that.. there is something mixed up here...the 2 sons show different mothers yet this profile shows only one wife.... one or both of the sons is incorrectly linked to this profile..
posted by Wendy Browne
This is something that's discussed and pending within the Southern Colonies group. A couple were just merged and I think someone was looking at the remaining extra.
posted by Crystal White
Lewis-28278 and Lewis-241 do not represent the same person because: 2 quite different people
posted by Dr. Ted Vandevis
Ted, is there any way you can flesh out 28278 a bit more? If it is indeed a different person, can you add parents, children, etc? Then we can make notes differentiating them so this doesn't keep coming up. Thanks.
posted by Crystal White
Ted,

The WikiTree guidelines for pre-1700 profiles requires that there be reliable sources cited for any claims on a profile for individuals born before 1700. You can read those guidelines here. Right now, there are no reliable sources cited on Lewis-28278. Are you aware of any sources which support the claim that such a person ever existed?

posted by Scott McClain
edited by Scott McClain
Lewis-28278 and Lewis-241 appear to represent the same person because: This unsourced profile serves no purpose and needs to be merged away. See discussion in Apr 16, 2020 comment.
posted by Ken Spratlin
I agree Lewis-28278 needs to be accounted for or merged somehow, but he shouldn't be merged into Lewis-241. 241 is actually listed as the father of that profile... but that's incorrect also. 28278 needs to be disconnected from 241. If anything, he perhaps needs to be merged into Lewis-239, under project protection of Southern Colonies.

I've been working on these, and previously there were other family members attached to 28278 not matching this line. Not sure where those went.

posted by Crystal White
Lewis-28278 doesn't appear to be a real person. Agree is not Lewis-241, but also is not Lewis-239. My proposal is to just make it go away, retaining none of its data. Is there anything of value to be retained from it?

It is unfortunate the merge function adds the "appear to represent the same person because" text as that is often not the intended message.

posted by Ken Spratlin
edited by Ken Spratlin
It's my understanding that profiles aren't usually deleted from WikiTree? (According to this link, anyway: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Deletion_FAQ) So I guess that's why they're often just merged, and if you keep all the data from the other profile, it has the effect of deleting.

Because there had been another child attached to 28278, it's possible that profile *is* a real John Lewis whose details were mixed up with this one. I think that's why people hesitate to delete. At least by disconnecting 28278 from 241, we can clean up the mess, and then this goes into the "unconnected profile" category to be worked on.

I posted in our project group to have it disconnected, hopefully leaders will weigh in soon.

posted by Crystal White
edited by Crystal White
Hi! I've proposed a merge of this profile with Lewis-241. The dates are different but the details indicate they're the same person. I'm trying to sort and streamline these Lewis profiles for the Southern Colonies project. Could you review the merge so we can proceed? Thanks so much!
posted on Lewis-8060 (merged) by Crystal White
Lewis-8060 and Lewis-241 appear to represent the same person because: These two profiles have the same spouse, the same children, similar death date and location. Both were born in Wales. 8060 has an incorrect birth date... it is unsourced, and since the notes indicate a marriage in 1610, it seems unlikely he'd have been born in 1618. This merge is necessary to clean up other connected Lewis profiles and get to one profile per person. Should possibly be looked at by those pre-1700 certified. Thanks.
posted by Crystal White
This site https://richardgwynallenblog.wordpress.com/2016/04/26/the-lewis-family-from-wales-to-the-virginia-colony/ provides information that shows that the John Lewis of Llantilio Pertholey, Monmouthshire, died in 1668 in Llantilio and is definitely NOT the John Lewis that immigrated to Virginia. Furthermore, on 10 May 2017, Mr. Price offered a conjecture which he is still in the process of researching:

“I have found a John Lewis from a minor but well-off family, who featured in local wills etc. He has a wife and two children (names unknown). The Lewis family of Llangattock, Breconshire, had land connections with the parish they came from in Monmouthshire. This John Lewis is in a Parliamentary government c.1650 list of those not to be pardoned for their Royalist activity during the civil war. Near where he lived and in the same parish is a large wood called Bertholey.” Perhaps the wood called Bertholey became confused in other research with Llandeilo Bertholau (Lantillio Pertholey in English) parish.

With this information, John should be detached from Johan Morgan (who actually was a Lewis) and Catherine Philip, as well as the children Watkin and Gwenwilian.

posted by Darlene (Athey) Athey-Hill
edited by Darlene (Athey) Athey-Hill
Information from this site: https://www.senclewises.com/history2.html

John Lewis received his inheritance from his grandfather, Richard Lewis. Richard’s oldest son, William, was disinterested in the family holdings as he had become a lawyer after attending Oxford and moved to London. Richard’s second son was Lewis Prichard, who had died by the time his will was testated, leaving John, Lewis’ oldest son as the heir of the Lewis estate. John was a good man, having been raised by his uncle Edward after his father’s death, and had earned a burgesship in the township of Abergavenny, bestowed upon him by the Lord of that place. This was a title granted to the most responsible and wealthy of a township. He was also referred to as a “Gentleman”, in Wales this means someone who bears arms, a leader in time of war. It was during this time that he married Johane verch Morgan Lewis, a Lewis from another clan, not associated with the Rhys Goch line. Later he married Catherine Phillip, mother of our ancestor, John Lewis.

Another site states that John married Johane verch Richard Lewis. At least they are both consistent that she was a Lewis! Unfortunately I haven't located a source. The book I mentioned yesterday needs to be viewed...

I have done extensive research on this family as they connect to several of my lines. The Lewis family is connected to the Warner line and thru them to the Washington line. John Lewis IV married a Churchill. You are right the information on here really needs to be corrected as most of the wives listed are incorrect. I do not have them traced back to Wales but I think I can give you the correct info for the family here in America.
posted by Linda (Brooks) Hoerner
Lewis-30651 and Lewis-241 are not ready to be merged because: These two profiles have different parents. HIs parents need to be resolved before a merge can go forward.
posted by Ashley Jones JD
If you are postponing the merge, can you do the research to determine the correct parents?
Like you, I am unfamiliar with Welsh records. Whoever proposed the merge did so without comment, and this profile needs a lot more work than "same names, same dates." I'll try to come back to him, but it may be awhile before I have time to do it right.
posted by Ashley Jones JD
Hi Ashley, unmerged matches tend to get forgotten and sit for years untouched or unresearched. Since it was an obvious duplicate, the best thing to do (IMHO) is complete the match, detach both sets of parents, and add a note in the biography about the detached parents. And then a G2G post seeking help to determine the parents should be created. This family certainly needs quite a bit of research, and since they're from Wales, the Wales Project is best able to take it on. I've done all of the above. Now hopefully we'll get some assistance from the G2G post!
With a name like John Lewis and four different wives, I'm not at all sure they are obvious duplicates, but you are more familiar with him than I. Have at him. :)
posted by Ashley Jones JD
The wives were the same on both, the years were the same, and the text of the biography confirmed that they were the same man. If I were familiar with the family, I wouldn't have an issue with 'having at him'. However, since I'm not, I've reached out, as noted, to the G2G community.

Darlene - Leader, U.S. Southern Colonies Project

Oh, yes. The biographies were definitely talking about the same man. I just wonder with all those wives if there might be another John Lewis in Virginia around the same time who got absorbed into this one, as they often do. When in doubt, I tend to lean towards thinking there were two different people. Just needs a little time to sort out.
posted by Ashley Jones JD
A quick look online reveals Sarah Pennington (according to her profile at Family Search and her memorial at Find a Grave) was married to Robert Lewis, son of Thomas Lewis (abt.1525-1594) and Margaret (Gamage) Lewis (1531-1581). Neither of those is an adequate source, but they're good enough to convince me that she should be detached as John's spouse.
Since this profile is managed and protected by US Southern Colonies Project, is there anyone out there who can do a little research and write a decent biography? I am not able to since I have absolutely no experience or knowledge of researching Welsh records. And his wives are a mess. At first glance it appears he should have only two wives, Johane Lewis and Catherine Phillip. But these definitely need some help.
Lewis-30651 and Lewis-241 appear to represent the same person because: same birth/death date; both married to Johane Morgan.
It looks like the narrative includes substantial cut-and-paste from some one or more sources. Who would like to take on writing an originally written narrative, appropriately sourced?
posted by Jillaine Smith
update - death before son's birth resolved... text does not support 1645 date; his tombstone has 1657 death date, which does not conflict

upon saving, received the following automated message:

Warning: Check the data.
  • A father's death date (Lewis-241 died Feb 1645) should not be more than nine months before one of his children's birth dates (Lewis-4739 born 1650).

The text for John Lewis-4739 says the profile's birth year had been 1635 (the same as "brother" John Lewis-239) but it was changed to accommodate dates of attached children.

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
edited by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Since John Lewis is not one of the 240 Gateway Ancestors documented by Douglas Richardson in Magna Carta Ancestry, he is not within the scope of the Magna Carta Project. To have him included in the project, primary sources would be needed to support parent/child relationships until his trail connects to someone who is documented by Richardson (in either Magna Carta Ancestry or Royal Ancestry - the latter being preferred as it was published in 2013 & MCA was published in 2011).
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Lewis-3772 and Lewis-241 appear to represent the same person because: Same birth and death dates and locations, same wife Sarah Pennington.
posted by Bob Fields
Possibly a Magna Carta decent from William De Mowbray married Agnes

FROM JAMESTOWN TO TEXAS By Betty Smith Meischen pg 508

posted by Andrea (Stawski) Pack
Working with Pack-747 to Edward (Plantagenet-70) of England

10. Mary is the daughter of Martha Ann (Lewis-11286) Clay [confident] 11. Martha is the daughter of John Lewis-684 III [confident] 12. John is the son of John Lewis-239 Jr. [unknown confidence] 13. John is the son of John Lewis-241 [unknown confidence] 14. John is the son of Margaret Puleston-12 [unknown confidence] 15. Margaret is the daughter of John Puleston-18 [unknown confidence] This makes Edward III the 23rd great grandfather of Joseph.

posted by Andrea (Stawski) Pack
I found an interesting looking publication about John Lewis here:

http://a.co/7n029yy

posted by Tom Gilkeson Jr
Hi Tommy

I noticed you have three brothers called John Lewis. I think this one might be attached to the wrong parents, because he was born in 1594 and the parents you have him attached to didn't marry until 1636.

Do you have your original sources for his profile, so we can check his details?

Maryann

Hi

Anne Sackville did not have a son John Lewis. So I'm removing the link to her.

Lewis-1145 and Lewis-241 appear to represent the same person because: This is intended to be the same person - the parents need to be sorted.