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Hamon (Massey) Massy (abt. 1125 - abt. 1216)

Hamon (Hamon III) "Baron of Dunham Massy" Massy formerly Massey
Born about in Dunham Massey, Cheshire, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Husband of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died about at about age 91 in Dunham Massey, Cheshire, Englandmap
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Profile last modified | Created 7 Jun 2011
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Biography

Hamon Massy III, baron of Dunham-Massy[1]

There are no extant records of when or where Hamon was born, but he was probably born at Dunham Massey. Historically also spelt Doneham, Doneham Mascy and myriad other ways, Dunham Massey was a major settlement in the parish of Bowdon, Bucklow hundred, Cheshire, England.[2]

Hamon was the son and heir of Hamon Massy, the second of Dunham Massy.[1] After his father's death, Hamon succeeded him as the 3rd Hamon Massy of Dunham-Massy.

Hamon was the brother of:

  1. Robert, from whom the Massies of Sale, in Cheshire, descended;[1]
  2. John, to whom, about Henry II [1154-1189] or Richard I [1189-1199], Hamon gave all the land of Moreton which Matthew de Moreton held, for the land of Podington, which was held by Robert de Massy, his uncle.[1]

Hamon married Agatha, who styled herself Agatha de Theray.[1]

Hamon and Agatha had children:

  1. Hamon IV, heir;[1]
  2. Robert Massy, who his mother, styling herself Agatha de Theray, gave the moiety of Bowdon, which she bought from Roger Massey of Hale, son of Geffrey Massy;[1]
  3. John Massy, to whose daughter Cicely, his sister Sibil gave half the town of Norden;[1]
  4. Agnes, who was married to Geffrey Dutton of Chedill, son of Geffrey Dutton, and with whom her father gave half of Bolinton in free marriage;[1]
  5. Sibil, who gave to Cicely, daughter of John Massy her brother, half the town of Norden;[1]
  6. Cicely, to whom her father gave all his land of Alretunstall and all of Sunderland;[1]
  7. a daughter who was married to Hugh de Dutton;[1] and
  8. Agatha, who was married to Joceraline de Hellesbi, sheriff of Cheshire.[1]

Hamon gave to Robert, son of Waltheof, all the land which his father Waltheof held of Hamon and his ancestors, which was Etchels, held by the service of half a knight's fee, and restored Bredbury and Brininton to Robert for finding a sumpter-horse and a man, and a sack for the carriage of his arms and apparel, when the earl of Chester in person lead an army into Wales; and giving aid to Hamon for redeeming his body if he is taken prisoner, and for making his eldest son a knight, and when his eldest daughter married.[1]

Birkenhead Priory was founded in 1150 by Hamon de Massey of Dunham Massey and the monks, who followed the Benedictine rule, were known as black monks because of the dark robes they wore.[3] Birkenhed Priory is in Wirral and Oliver was prior in the reign of King John[1] [1199-1216].

Hamon de Massey, "the famous Cheshire baron" held Stockport against Henry II, king of England, on behalf of Hugh, earl of Chester, in the great rebellion of 1173.[4]

Hamon de Massy, of Dunham Massey, in 1212 held Stretford by serjeanty, with Henry de Stretford holding two oxgangs of Hamon. Circa 1250, Hamon de Massy IV gave the whole town of Stretford to Maud, his daughter, who later as the widow of Roger Pain of Ashburn, released Stretford to Henry Trafford. In 1284, Henry de Trafford had a charter of free warren in his manors of Trafford and Stretford.[5]

Hamon died about the reign of king John or at the beginning of Henry III's reign, survived by his wife, Agatha.[1] Henry III became king of England in 1216.

Research Notes

There were multiple men named Hamon Massey, who were successive barons of Dunham-Massey, and some researchers believe it is unlikely that the Hamon who founded Birkenhead Priory was the same man who in 1212 held Stretford by serjeanty.

Some researchers also believe that the Hamon who died about 1216 was probably Hamon IV, this Hamon's son. However, William Farrer states "circa 1250, Hamon de Massy IV ..."[5]

Sources

  1. 1.00 1.01 1.02 1.03 1.04 1.05 1.06 1.07 1.08 1.09 1.10 1.11 1.12 1.13 1.14 1.15 George Ormerod, "Containing the Introduction and Prolegomena, the County of the City of Chester and Bucklow Hundred", The History of the County Palatine and City of Chester; Compiled from Original Evidences in Public Offices, the Harleian and Cottonian MSS, Parochial Registers, Private Muniments, Unpublished Ms Collections of Successive Cheshire Antiquaries, and a Personal Survey of Every Township in the County; Incorporated with a Republication of King's Vale Royal, and Leycester's Cheshire Antiquities, 2nd Edition, Ed. Thomas Helsby, 3 volumes, (London: George Routledge and Sons, 1882), I:520-1, e-book HathiTrust (https://hdl.handle.net/2027/coo.31924088434034?urlappend=%3Bseq=642%3Bownerid=13510798902306474-734 : accessed 11 June, 2022).
  2. "Dunham Massey," Survey of English Place-Names (1923-2022) The Institute for Name‑Studies, University of Nottingham, UK. (https://epns.nottingham.ac.uk/browse/Cheshire/Bowdon/5328368eb47fc40856001f76-Dunham+Massey : accessed 10 May, 2022).
  3. "Birkenhead Priory", Historic England, 2000, (https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1019159?section=official-list-entry : accessed 11 June, 2022).
  4. Geoffrey Barraclough, ed, "Facsimilies of Early Cheshire Charters (Oxford: Basil Blackwell, 1957), x.
  5. 5.0 5.1 William Farrer, comp, Final Concords of the County of Lancaster, from the Original Chirographs, or Feet of Fines Preserved in the Public Record Office, London. Part I—7 Richard I to 35 Edward I. 1196 to 1307, (The Record Society for the Publication of Original Documents relating to Lancashire and Cheshire, XXXIX, 1899), 154. e-Book Internet Archive (https://archive.org/stream/finalconcordsco00enggoog#page/n176/mode/1up : accessed 11 June, 2022).

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Comments: 6

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How do we distinguish this Hamon from his son with the same name? The context for my question is that I think the record about a daughter named Cicely has seen as a daughter of his son also? (Wikitree has her doubled up, it seems, and married to father and son. However the father and son are now disconnected because the father is not a real person.)

The reference being cited here gives no page number but I guess this is it https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924088434034&seq=639 It mentions no husband at all.

posted by Andrew Lancaster
edited by Andrew Lancaster
The profile gives a date of death as 1216 and the biography states that Hamon died survived by his wife Agatha. The profile for Agatha gives her date of death of 1207. Given the other comments on his age below, should his death date be changed to unknown until further research shows otherwise.

I believe that there is a 1212 marriage record of an old Hamon de Massey to Cecile Gernet, the widow of William Gernet, who died shortly after (possibly in 1216) but before she married thirdly to William Le Villein in about 1224. It’s not known if that is this Hamon or possibly his son.

posted by Andrew Hill
I see this profile's lifespan is unusually long for this era, and that we have at least three notional birthdates here:
  1. 1125
  2. About 1129
  3. About 1133

Are these dates tied to contemporary primary-source evidence, charters, inheritances etc?

One thing to be wary of is confusion/conflation of multiple relatives of same name.

edit: typo I notice, two years later...

posted by Isaac Taylor
edited by Isaac Taylor
So for example, in our biography section we say:

"Hamon founded the priory of Birkenhed in Wirral, inhabited by the order of the Black Monks, which had a church dedicated to St James, and of which Oliver was prior in the reign of King John.[1] Birkenhead Priory was founded in 1150.

In 1212, Hamon de Massy of Dunham Massy, held Stretford by serjeanty.[2]"

OK, so if the implication is this Hamon founded Birkenhead Priory in 1150, then it's highly problematic for him to have been born in 1133 (17-year olds don't usually make expensive land grants or fork over big money) and would be rare even for a 25-year old man... and much more plausible for his father of same name, at first glance. (How are we sure his father died "about 1140" I wonder?)

Similarly, adult men making bequests etc in 1150, are highly unlikely to still be alive in 1212 -- 62 years later. Or live into their 80s (let alone into their 90s) in the 12th or 13th century, given all the fighting and dis-ease etc. So, for these reasons, I worry we may have conflated statements about and dates describing multiple discrete men (at least two, perhaps even three generations?) into one synthetic composite profile. Thoughts?

Which contemporary primary sources prove what? The in-line citations suggest we're relying heavily (entirely?) on the 1882 Ormerod; and then pinning-on the 1212 Stretford factoid from the 1899 Farrer. How are we sure either of these secondary sources is correct-- or even describing the same man?

Respectfully,

posted by Isaac Taylor
edited by Isaac Taylor
Here we go again. Dates are all screwy. Hamon was born abt. 1129, his supposed daughter, Cecily abt. 1215. That would make Hamon abt. 86 when Cecily was born. Not possible.
posted by Harry Kelly
Well it's impossible, strictly. But it's not credible either, and the timewarp is indicative of conflation of multiple men with same into one profile, right?
posted by Isaac Taylor

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Categories: Dunham Massey, Cheshire | Birkenhead Priory, Birkenhead, Cheshire