William Pope Sr.
Privacy Level: Open (White)

William Pope Sr. (abt. 1634 - bef. 1708)

William "The Quaker" Pope Sr.
Born about in Englandmap [uncertain]
Son of [father unknown] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Husband of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died before before about age 74 in Nansemond, Virginiamap
Problems/Questions Profile manager: Roy Pope private message [send private message]
Profile last modified | Created 6 Apr 2014
This page has been accessed 2,804 times.

Contents

Biography

William was a Friend (Quaker)

William Pope was born abt. 1634, in England.[1] Published works dating back to the early 20th century agree that records do not appear to have survived which can demonstrate or prove the identites of his parents.

Religion

William and his family were Quakers.
William was one of ten men addressed in a letter sent by George Fox from Elizabeth River to the Friends at Nansemond, whereby they were directed to establish and hold quarterly meetings in Chuckatuck, Nansemond, Virginia. A copy of the letter is preserved in the Chuckatuck Meeting House records, which states—[2]
"Heare follows the coppye of a letter as it was sent forth by George ffox & sent from Elizabeth river to friends at nansemund in the 10 month 1672—
"ffriend Wm Denson, Wm Yarrett, John Porter, George Kemp, Thomas Jordan, Edward Perkin(s), Wm Pope, Robert Laur (Lawrence, who settled near Bennett's?), Thomas Hollowell, Levin Buffkin. ffriends ye above mentioned [are] to keep a man's meeting once a quarter accordg to the paper that William Denson hath, whose paper declared ffriends had appointed the men's meeting, and if John Fowler's house be too farre off then ye may appoint it at Thomas Hollowell's or other place as you may see most convenient, and William Yarrett may send to that little meeting above Jamestown, if there be any man there that they may know who it is, and if there be any other faithful friends that ye know off ye make them acquainted with ye meeting, so that once a quarter ye and they may meet to geather in the power and wisdom of God..."
The letter is quite lengthy and contains many rules and admonitions to be followed by the Friends. Only the most vital part of that letter, for genealogical purposes, is shown above. The date of this record, when converted from Quaker date format into Julian/Gregorian date format, is Dec 1672.
As an active Quaker and co-founder of the Nansemond Monthly Meetings, William was present at many Quaker events. On 22 Aug 1678 (QD: 22 da., 06 mo., 1678), he witnessed the marriage of John Morry and Elizabeth Yarrat in the house of William Yarratt; On 15 Nov 1678 (QD: 15 da., 09 mo., 1678), he witnessed the marriage of William Oudelant and Christian Taberer in the house of Elizabeth Oudelants.[3]

Military Service

As a Quaker, William was required to refrain from militia activities and the taking up of arms.

Marriage & Family

William and Mary recorded the names and dates of birth of their children with the Chuckatuck Meeting House, in Nansemond. The exact wording of the Quaker record states—[4]
"Wm Pope & Marie his wife their Childrens Nattivitties recorded as followeth.— Wm Pope, sonn of the aforesd Wm & Mary was borne the 15th of the 8th month 1662. Henry Pope, sonn of the aforesd Wm & Mary was borne the last of the 11th mo: 1663. Alse Pope daughter of the aforesd Wm & Mary was borne of the 8 mo: 1667. John Pope sonn of the aforesaid Wm & Mary was borne the 6th of the 8 mo 1670."
The dates of birth contained within this record, when converted from Quaker format into Gregorian Date format, are as follows—
  • William Pope, b. 15 Oct 1662
  • Henry Pope, b. 31 Jan 1663/64
  • Alse Pope, b. Oct 1667
  • John Pope, b. 06 Oct 1670

Transactions

  • On 11 Mar 1655/56, William Pope patented 200 acres of land in Westmoreland, Virginia.
  • On 30 Oct 1662, William Pope patented 200 acres of land in Nansemond, Virginia.
  • In 1665, William Pope patented land in Isle of Wight, Virginia. Part of the said land extended into Nansemond.

Death & Burial

The only known record of William's death is a document sworn to and signed by his son William Pope, Jr., on 08 Apr 1708, in the Chuckatuck Meeting House, which was a Statement of Wrongdoing and Promise to Make Restitution. This document was abstracted incorrectly by Hinsaw as—
"1708, 2, 8. William, Nansemond Co., gave a paper of explanation concerning some business transaction of his father William Pope, who being in England some yr past & d soon after his return to Virginia the sd William & bro Henry & William's w took over the matter involved which was settled to satisfaction." (Vol. 6, p. 34)
The actual wording of the historic record, in its entirety, is—[5]
"I Wm Pope of the County of nanzemond doe declare that for some years by past my father Wm Pope being in England did meet with & Anttient friend whoe upon my father Return to Virginia againe did Intrust him with a piece of Goods to the vallue of fifty pounds ster or thereaboute upon Creditt & soon after my fathers arrivall heare hee died upon the wch Bro henery & my selfe Took the s goods into our Costody & did dispose of Itt sometime after This wee understood of the death of this antient friend & then his widdow became ****er & did send over severall times for the offsette of The sd goods butt noe Return was ever made. However now for the future, in case shee should bee still in being & should send over any more, after if have write to her wch I dere Promise to send as soon as Possible I doe firmly Promise & oblidge my self to send her full satisfaction as farr forth as any Part doth extend wch will bee Just The The halfe of the above sd same And in Confirmation hereof I have hereunto sett my hand this eight day of the 2 mo 1708. [Signed] William Pope; [Witnesses] Js Rickes, Ben Jordan, Abram Rickes"
From this record, it can be deduced that William Pope, father of William Pope, Jr., both of the Chuckatuck Meeting House in Nansemond, Virginia, died in Nansemond, Virginia, shortly after returning from a trip to England and before the date of the letter—bef. 08 Apr 1708.
As for William's burial—the location of his grave is unknown.

Research Notes

Speculation by Henry F. Waters

In footnotes, Waters cited notes transmitted to him by R. A. Brock, from Brock's Memorandum book, as follows—[6]
"Nathaniel Pope, Book No. 3, p. 279, 1000 acres on the south side of Potomac river in Westmoreland Co., Sept. 6, 1654.
"William Pope, Book No. 4, p. 31, 200 acres in Westmoreland Co., March 11, 1655.
"[These grantees were probably brothers]."''
The aforementioned speculation was later published by the William and Mary College, which wrote—[7]
"In Water's Genealogical Gleanings, it is stated that in 1655 William Pope received a grant of land in Westmoreland county, Virginia. Mr. R. A. Brock suggests the probability that William Pope of Nansemond and Westmoreland counties, and Nathaniel Pope of Westmoreland county, were brothers."
William and Mary went a step further to promote the probability by noting that Richard Pope, a grandson of Nathaniel Pope, lived in Isle of Wight.
R. A. Brock's speculation has driven many researchers to ignore the caveat published in William and Mary, that the relationship between William and Nathaniel Pope "is as yet undetermined." Eager to establish a link between themselves and the famous Washington family, regardless of the fact that the link manifests a false pedigree, many researchers show William as being either Nathaniel's son or his brother without providing a single authoritative shred of proof.

No relation to Lieut. Col. Nathaniel Pope

William was previously and incorrectly linked as a child to Lieut. Col. Nathaniel Pope and his wife, Lucy Ann (Fox) Pope. This relationship was removed for the following reasons:
  • As stated above, R. A. Brock only speculated (theorized) that William and Nathaniel were probably "brothers", but speculation and fact are two entirely different creatures. Thus far, there is absolutely zero (0) evidence to prove any relationship at all between the two men other than the facts that they share the same surname and the same I-DF29 Y-DNA subclade.
  • According to William and Mary Quarterly, Nathaniel and Lucy did have a son named William. However, the same publication states that their son, William, married an Ann Woodson and had an only daughter named Lucy Ann who married Robert Kelso Dabney.[8]
  • The William Pope shown in this profile was the husband of Mary (or Marie) née Unknown (not "Bozeman"), as demonstrated by him being shown in this profile as the father of Henry Pope and John Pope.
  • Y-DNA test results of descendants of William Pope, along the male-only lines of descent, belong to major subclade I-M253 (ISOGG: I1), and test down to subclade FT352727, as follows: M253+ DF29+ Z58+ Z59+ CTS8647+ Z61+ Z60+ Z140+ Z141+ Z2535+ CTS10937+ Y3153+ Y12047+ A1890+ FT309888+ FT352727.[9]
  • Y-DNA test results demonstrate that William and Nathaniel Pope were not near-relations on the Pope lines. Though they both descend from I-M253, the Y-DNA for the descendants of these two men diverge at subclade DF29, thereby making it genetically impossible for Nathaniel to be the father of William. From subclade I-DF29, descendants of Nathaniel Pope branched off to subclade I-Z2893 approx. 4,600 years ago;[10] descendants of William Pope branched off to subclade I-Z58 approx. 4,500 years ago.[11]

No proof of relation to Richard Pope and Lucretia Backus

Prior to the merge of 25 Aug 2022, the profile page for William Pope (Pope-1817) showed him to have been born 16 Feb 1634 in Chuckatuck, Nansemond, Virginia. No historic records are cited to support this exact date and place of birth. Ergo, this vital information is considered speculative and is not preserved with the merge.
Additionally, the profile page for William Pope (Pope-1817) showed him to be the son of Richard Pope and Lucretia Backus. This parent-child relationship has been removed for the following reasons-
The theory that William was the son of Richard Pope and Lucretia Backus appears to originate from Hill who, after fumbling with records of various Pope men, wrote "After carefully examining these early records, I am persuaded that Nathaniel and William Pope were from the same English stirp, and that William, Richard, John and Thomas Pope were brothers, and probably the sons of Richard Pope, Sr., merchant and soap-maker, of Bristol in 1662. Of course, this is a conjecture; no records discovered actually connect them."[12]
Richard "the soap-maker" Pope, of Bristol in 1662, was the son of Michael and first wife Joane Tomlynson, whereas Michael was the son of Richard Pope of Brislington, Somerset, and his wife Alice.[13] The will of Michael, father of Richard "the soap-maker" Pope, was authored 19 Sep 1642 and proven in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury on 03 Oct 1644.[14] Within his will, Michael names grandsons (sons of Richard) as Michael and Richard Pope - there is no mention of grandson (son of Richard) being named William.
In addition to the fact that William "the Quaker" Pope is not mentioned in the will of his grandfather, wherein the sons of Richard are named, neither he nor members of the Pope family are mentioned in either of the following publications-
  • Russell Mortimer (ed.). Bristol Record Society's Publications, Vol. XXVI: Minute Book of The Men's Meeting of The Society of Friends in Bristol, 1667—1686. Great Britain: Northumberland Press LTD, 1971.
  • Russell Mortimer (ed.). Bristol Record Society's Publications, Vol. XXX: Minute Book of The Men's Meeting of The Society of Friends in Bristol, 1686—1704. Great Britain: Northumberland Press LTD, 1977.
The fact that William was addressed in a letter by George Fox, in 1672, and appointed as a co-founder of the Chuckatuck Monthly Meetings, suggests that he was a well-established member of the Quakers. For him to not even receive mention in the Minute Books of The Men's Meeting of The Society of Friends in Bristol suggests that he may not have even had ties with Bristol.

Sources

  1. "Pope, Chart No. 2." In The Hills of Wilkes County, Georgia and Allied Families, by Lodowick Johnson Hill, front matter. Atlanta, GA: Johnson-Dallis Company, 1922.
  2. Fox, George. "Letter from Elizabeth River to Friends at Nansemond, dated Dec 1672." In Encyclopedia of American Quaker Genealogy, Vol. 6, by William Wade Hinsaw, p. 7. Ann Arbor, MI: Edward Brothers, Inc, 1936.
  3. Meriwether, Colyer. Publications of the Southern History Association, Vol. 7. Washington, DC: The Association, 1903.
  4. "Original Quaker document, circa. 1670: Wm Pope & Marie his wife their Childrens Nattivitties.", transcribed by Pope, Roy D., Jr., 03 Jun 2020; Ancestry.com. http://www.ancestry.com (accessed 01 Jun 2020).
  5. "Original Quaker document, 08 Apr 1708: Wm Pope's Statement of Wrongdoing and Promise to Make Restitution.", transcribed by Pope, Roy D., Jr., 03 Jun 2020; Ancestry.com. http://www.ancestry.com (accessed 01 Jun 2020).
  6. Waters, Henry F. Genealogical Gleanings in England, Vol. I. Boston, MA: New-England Historic Genealogical Society, 1901, p. 403.
  7. "William Pope" In The William and Mary Colleg Quarterly, Vol. 27, by College of William & Mary, p. 61. Richmond, VA: Whittet & Shepperson, 1918.
  8. Beale, G. W. "Col. Nathaniel Pope and His Descendants. (Continued)" In The William and Mary Quarterly, Vol. 12, by College of William & Mary, p. 252. Richmond, VA: Whittet & Shepperson, 1904.
  9. "I1 yDNA Haplogroup: I-M253 and all subclades", in FTDNA. https://www.familytreedna.com/public/yDNA_I1?iframe=ycolorized (accessed 08 Jul 2022); Kit: IN87168; Most distant ancestor shown: Jonathan Pope (Jacob, William, Henry, William).
  10. "Subclade I-Z2893." In Y-Full. https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Z2893/ (accessed 03 Mar 2021).
  11. "Subclade I-Z58." In Y-Full. https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Z58/ (accessed 03 Mar 2021).
  12. Hill, Lodowick Johnson. The Hills of Wilkes County, Georgia and Allied Families. Atlanta, GA: Johnson-Dallis Company, 1922, p. 230.
  13. Hall, I. V. "Whitson Court Sugar House, Bristol, 1665-1824." In Transactions of the Bristol and Gloucestershire Archaeological Society, Vol. 65, facing p. 8. Bristol: Bristol and Gloucestershire Archaeological Society, 1944.
  14. "Historic Records", United Kingdom, The National Archives (https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/), Will of Michael Pope; Dated: 19 Sep 1642; Proved: 03 Oct 1644; Ref: PROB 10/642.




Is William your ancestor? Please don't go away!
 star icon Login to collaborate or comment, or
 star icon contact private message the profile manager, or
 star icon ask our community of genealogists a question.
Sponsored Search by Ancestry.com

DNA Connections
It may be possible to confirm family relationships with William by comparing test results with other carriers of his Y-chromosome or his mother's mitochondrial DNA. However, there are no known yDNA or mtDNA test-takers in his direct paternal or maternal line. It is likely that these autosomal DNA test-takers will share some percentage of DNA with William:

Have you taken a DNA test? If so, login to add it. If not, see our friends at Ancestry DNA.

Images: 1
Quaker Star
Quaker Star



Comments: 28

Leave a message for others who see this profile.
There are no comments yet.
Login to post a comment.
Another quick thought -- is there any chance William is related to Joseph Pope (possible son of Robert Pope of Yorkshire, England) from Salem, Massachusetts, who was a Quaker? I'm trying to follow the Quaker hints.

This Joseph came to Salem Mar 1634 on the Mary and John. If our William Pope was born abt. 1634, it is a possible timeframe that he was born to a first wife, Damaris.

From this link: https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/131947/?offset=0#page=220&viewer=picture&o=&n=0&q=

Joseph and wife Gertrude were summoned to court at the Salem Church because of their attendance at Quaker meetings -- and in 1662 were excommunicated from the church of Salem. Evidently, he had 5 sons and 3 daughters (have not found their names yet, except Samuel). He had 2 wives: Damaris and Gertrude. The only son I see right now is Samuel, born 1656 (I'm guessing from his second wife). However, if there was a son from the first marriage......

If they were investigating Quaker thought before this time, it would be about the time that a first son would be old enough to go out on his own (before arriving in VA in 1655).

I'm just throwing this out there - maybe one of their sons migrated south? I am uncertain how many people migrated south during the mid 1600s. From what I can understand, he received a land patent in 1655 in Westmoreland County -- and then 1656 in Nansemond County. (If this info is correct.)

I'm hoping some of you more familiar with this line might comment. Maybe some of you are more familiar with Quaker records than I am. Thank you.

posted by Kathy Bergman
The suggestion that William may have been the son of Joseph Pope who arrived in Salem, Mass., appears to me to be highly unlikely.

On 18 Feb 1664/65, Col. Robert Pitt and Mr. William Burgh claimed headrights for the importation of William Pope, twice, and his wife. William's first arrival into the Virginia Colonies was prior to 1656, at which time he arrived alone and eventually settled in Nansemond approximately eight miles from the circa. 1956 location of the Isle of Wight, County Court House. His second arrival to the Virginia Colonies was prior to 1664, at which time he arrived with his wife, Marie (or Mary).

One point of considerable note is that the descendants of William Pope had a terrible habit of reusing names when naming children, and of naming female children after their female ancestors. For example, there are two female descendants that I am aware of named "Alse Pope," one of which is a daughter of William, thereby suggesting that an Alse most probably was in the next generation back from William and Marie (Mary).

Bearing in mind the onomastic habits of this line of Popes, note that Joseph's wife was named "Gertrude." In my family tree, I have 1,200 Popes -- some descending from Lt. Col. Nathaniel Pope, and most descending from William "the Quaker" Pope. Of these Popes, 538 are females. Of these 538 female Popes, exactly zero are named "Gertrude." Of the 27,176 people in my tree, I have only located 33 having the name "Gertrude," 12 of which are in greatly extended branches, and all of which are on one of my maternal branches (none on my Pope side of the family).

Next, consider that the people of the time usually (though not always) moved in family groups. This was for purposes of safety, especially in light of the Natives, as well as for social support. I followed Joseph's family in the book that you provided a link to, and after seven generations I noted that not a single descendant named therein even touched Virginia or North Carolina soil -- at least, not according to anything mentioned in that book.

posted by Roy Pope Jr.
After reading this book: https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/225:14899?tid=157519268&pid=322464625115&hid=1021774408191&_phsrc=ZhX400&_phstart=default

I am wondering if John Pope is William's father (based on info in the book), which is speculation on his part, but a lead to investigate.

Playing with this assumption, This book discusses John Pope, Merchant of Bristol: https://www.bristol.ac.uk/Depts/History/bristolrecordsociety/publications/brs19.pdf

and lists John's father as Michael Pope, also a soapmaker.

Also speculative is that Michael may be the son of an earlier Richard Pope (not the one you mentioned) - but I have not dug far into Richard yet.

I'm just throwing this out there for discussion. Nothing is in concrete here!

posted by Kathy Bergman
In Henry F. Waters' 1901 publication of Genealogical Gleanings in England, Vol. 1, the author made an innocent and unfounded suggestion in his footnotes regarding Nathaniel and William Pope, stating that "[These grantees were probably brothers]." (p. 403)

In Lodowick M. Hill's 1922 publication of Hills of Wilkes County, Georgia, the author wrote, viz., "After carefully examining these early records, I am persuaded that Nathaniel and William Pope were from the same English stirp, and that William, Richard, John and Thomas Pope were brothers, and probably the sons of Richard Pope, Sr., merchant and soap-maker, of Bristol in 1662." Hill immediately followed that statement with a caveat, writing "Of course, this is a conjecture; no records discovered actually connect them." (p. 230)

The two foregoing items have convinced a considerable number of family researchers that William "the Quaker" Pope was the brother of Lieut. Col. Nathaniel Pope, and that he was somehow descended from the soapmaker Popes of Bristol. The first assertion mentioned, that he and Nathaniel were brothers, has been immediately disproved by DNA testing of myself (a well-documented descendant of William), and other male Pope descendants of both William and Nathaniel. As to the second assertion, that William is somehow descended from the soapmaker Popes of Bristol, it is my opinion that this is extremely unlikely for reasons which follow...

I am in possession of digital copies of 27 volumes of the Bristol Record Society's Publications (Vols. 1-15, 19, 23, 25, 26, 30, 37, 43, 44, 55, 56, 59, and 64). Additionally, I am in possession of the several early Transactions of the Bristol and Gloucestershire Archaeological Society in which the Pope surname is mentioned. All of these publications, I have thoroughly researched and am unable to find a single mention of a William Pope residing in or associated with Bristol between the years 1630 to 1710.

William Pope was a Quaker. This is proven many times over in historic records. Records also demonstrate that he was in England no less than three times, viz., prior to 1656, which is the approx. year of his first arrival to the Virginia Colonies; prior to 1664, which is the approx. year in which he arrived in the Virginia Colonies with his wife, Marie (or Mary); prior to 08 Apr 1708 (QD: 8th da., 2nd mo., 1708; JGD: 8/19 Apr 1708), which is the date on which his son, William, wrote and signed a confession of wrongdoing against the widow of his father's friend, promising to make restitution, and declaring that "...for some years by past my father Wm Pope being in England did meet with & Anttient friend whoe upon my father Return to Virginia againe did Intrust him with a piece of Goods to the vallue of fifty pounds ster or thereaboute upon Creditt & soon after my fathers arrivall heare hee died..."

Being a Quaker so prominent that, in December of 1672 (10 month 1672), he was addressed in a letter by George Fox, it seems improbable that William would have avoided the Quaker Meeting House in Bristol on each of his visits to England. However, there is absolutely no mention of him in the Minute Book of the Men's Meeting of the Society of Friends in Bristol, 1667-1686 (BRSP, v. 26), or 1686-1704 (BRSP, v. 30).

Now, the foregoing-mentioned publications demonstrate that the soapmaker Popes of Bristol descend from Richard Pope, of Brislington in 1571. The same is true of the confectioner Popes of Bristol.

After constructing a Pope family tree from the information contained within only the publications mentioned, it is clear that the Bristol Popes reused given names, generation after generation. The onomastic evidence created by this habit does suggest a possible relationship between the Bristol Popes and Lieut. Col. Nathaniel Pope. However, no such onomastic suggestion appears to exist between the Bristol Popes and William "the Quaker" Pope.

In G. W. Beale's 1904 publication of Col. Nathaniel Pope and His Descendants (William and Mary Quarterly, Ser. 1, Vol. 12, No. 3, p. 192-196), Nathaniel is shown to have had a son named Thomas. This son married a Joanna and had issue. Among the children of Thomas and Joanna Pope were three daughters, viz., Mary, Elizabeth, and Margaret Pope. Beale wrote, "Of the daughters of Thomas and Joanna Pope, who probably remained in England, we have no further account." (p. 193)

Within Inhabitants of Bristol in 1696 (BRSP, v. 25, p. 16), there were a "Mary Pope & Margarett blank" residing together. The enumeration of these two women is included in a list of names enclosed by a curly bracket possibly to suggest that all persons named were in the same household. Within this list are two women named Elizabeth -- one a Thurston, the other a Biggs. This enumeration, especially in light of the fact that it was made in the time period in which the daughters of Thomas and Joanna Pope would have lived, leads me to speculate that the women included in the enumeration may have been the granddaughters of Nathaniel Pope.

If my theory is correct, regarding the enumeration just mentioned, it would further reinforce the suggestion that Nathaniel Pope was a descendant of the Bristol Popes. And, if that suggestion is accurate then it would place even further distance between William Pope and the theory that he may somehow be descended from the Bristol Popes.

CONCLUSION: In all of my years of researching William Pope, I have never seen a shred of evidence to even remotely suggest that he descended from the Bristol Popes -- neither from the soapmakers or the confectioners of Bristol. It is apparent that the suggestion made in the footnotes of Water's publication was based on nothing more than the fact that William and Nathaniel were of record living in the area of Westmoreland, Virginia, at the same period of time. Water's suggestion neglects the facts that Nathaniel arrived in Virginia via Maryland, and that records suggest that William arrived via England.

posted by Roy Pope Jr.
Pope-3205 and Pope-1817 appear to represent the same person because: looking at dates, wife and children, it would appear that these are intended to be the same person
posted by Robin Lee
The suggested merge has been completed. Thank you for initiating the merge.
posted by Roy Pope Jr.
A William Pope received a grant of land in Westmoreland County in 1655. A William Pope - possibly the same one, patented land in Nansemond County in 1656 and 1662. In 1665, he also patented land in Isle of Wight County. There are numerous documents that speculate that he and Nathaniel were brothers and possibly sons of a John Pope in Bristol. A grandson of Nathaniel, Richard Pope, lived in Isle of Wight County where William had property. This seems to be seen by some as evidence that William was Nathaniel's brother. It seems rather weak to me. I think there is a family connection between the two, but they may have just been cousins.
posted on Pope-3205 (merged) by Mike Greer
When you say "numerous documents", are you referring to records (wills, deeds, etc.) that show both men named together, or are you referring to publications (published genealogies, books, magazine articles, personal web pages, etc.) that refer back to the speculation made by R. A. Brock and initially published by Waters in Genealogical Gleanings (1901)?

Brock merely posed a theory. Just because his theory was published, that doesn't make it fact. William and Mary suggested that Brock may be right because Richard Pope, son of Nathaniel, lived in Isle of Wight.

True Story: In 2000, I opened a restaurant in Mobile, Alabama. For months, my mail wasn't being delivered. Eventually, a man showed up with a box of my mail. He said the mailman had delivered my mail to him, by mistake. Why? Because he and I share the exact same name - first, middle, last, and even suffix. Ironically enough, both of our wives are Asian, and my restaurant was an Asian restaurant, so we really confused the mailman.

Just because two or more people with the same surname live in the same county, that doesn't mean that they are related.

Y-DNA tests prove that William Pope and Nathaniel Pope were definitely not related.

posted on Pope-3205 (merged) by Roy Pope Jr.
I did say the documents "speculate" and that it seems rather weak to me. I know that many people have the same name. Your last statement about the Y-DNA is interesting. Would you like to share the details on that? That would seem germane to the way the two men are connected on WikiTree.
posted on Pope-3205 (merged) by Mike Greer
I completely missed that "rather weak" part when I read your comment above. Sorry about that.

As to the Y-DNA... In the haplogroup groups on FTDNA, individuals are grouped by DNA markers to help us find relatives. As stated above, in the Notes section of the Biography, "Y-DNA test results demonstrate that William and Nathaniel Pope were not near-relations on the Pope lines. Though they both descend from I-M253, the Y-DNA for the descendants of these two men diverge at subclade DF29, thereby making it genetically impossible for Nathaniel to be the father of William. From subclade I-DF29, descendants of Nathaniel Pope branched off to subclade I-Z2893 approx. 4,600 years ago; descendants of William Pope branched off to subclade I-Z58 approx. 4,500 years ago."

posted on Pope-3205 (merged) by Roy Pope Jr.
Thank you, Roy.

I also missed those dna notes. Oddly enough, I am also I-M253, but not in this line. I looked at the snps tree and found the two separate lines for Nathanial and William. Of course, this depends on how sure those who tested are that they really descend from these two. But it does look pretty solid to me.

posted on Pope-3205 (merged) by Mike Greer
I can't speak for most, because I don't know. As for myself, over the last 20 years of research I've developed a strong paper-trail from myself to William Pope.

After I took my Y-DNA test, I located a few people who traced their ancestry to Nathaniel and I double-checked their lines of descent, which wasn't so difficult to do since I had also been working on Nathaniel's lines of descent while researching my own tree in hopes of finding a connection which I never found.

Anyhow, after confirming for myself the integrity of the trees for a few who actually do descend from Nathaniel, I compared my Y-DNA results to theirs. The results brought me to the solid conclusion that William and Nathaniel descend from entirely different Pope lines.

As for you being I-M253... those results, of course, would be strictly applicable to your male-only line of descent which I am assuming would be a Greer ancestor. In any case, as an I-M253 you certainly do come from a good line, if I do say so myself.

posted on Pope-3205 (merged) by Roy Pope Jr.
Haha. Those Vikings got around. Since the profile manager of William maintains that William and Nathaniel aren't related, why can't it be corrected? The US presidents wikitree group manages Nathaniel. Are they the ones insisting on the connection?
posted on Pope-3205 (merged) by Mike Greer
I thought that Nathaniel was Privacy Locked by the Pope One Name Study. I wouldn't think that the US Presidents group would keep a non-relative linked as such since such a link would create a false pedigree into the notoriously hard-to-get-into hereditary societies such as Order of Washington and Presidential Families of America.

Because Nathaniel's page is protected, we cannot remove the link ourselves. It requires a Project Leader, a Project Coordinator, or intervention by the Page Manager. I have contacted all three with the request to correct this error.

posted on Pope-3205 (merged) by Roy Pope Jr.
edited by Roy Pope Jr.
There may be a connection to the Westmoreland Popes but not likely a son of Nathaniel:

https://www.colonial-settlers-md-va.us/getperson.php?personID=I18038&tree=Tree1

A 'William' is not mentioned in his will.

posted on Pope-3205 (merged) by John C. Fox
The Nathaniel Pope referred to in the note stated above from William and Mary Quarterly is a descendent of the elder Nathaniel Pope, born 1603.. The note is for pages 250-253. The Nathaniel Pope, b. 1603 is referenced in the same Quarterly article but on pages 192-196. His wife is named Lucy or "Luce" but no last name. They had four children: Thomas, Nathaniel, Anne and Margaret. There was no child named William. It is believed that William Pope, b. 1634 was the brother of Nathaniel Pope. Genealogies of Virginia Families from the William and Mary College Quarterly. Vol. II. Cobb-Hay [database on-line]. Section: Early Landowners of Isle of Wight, VA, and Some of Their Descendants, Pope
posted on Pope-3205 (merged) by Mike Greer
Yes, Nathaniel Pope Sr's will DOES NOT name a 'William'. So, in your opinion is this William some how really related to the Westmoreland Popes?
posted on Pope-3205 (merged) by John C. Fox
Pope-4623 and Pope-1817 appear to represent the same person because: same name, exact same spouse (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Bridges-2906), same birth year, similar death year, similar death location. If these two profiles should not be merged then the spouse should be removed from one. Thank you.
posted by Teresa Downey
Pope-1817 and Pope-1927 appear to represent the same person because: Same location, spouse
Marie Bridger Pope shows as both his mother and his wife. Dates make her as mother impossible. I am removing her as his mother.
Removing him as a child is fine with me.
Nathaniel Pope Sr and wife, Lucy Fox only had 4 children. This person does not belong. Does anyone have any actual references except trees?
posted by Mary Richardson
His birthdate cannot be right, as he would have been as old or older than his parents. I am removing his birthdate.
Pope-1927 and Pope-1817 are not ready to be merged because: conflicting mothers.
There is a "loop" here that must be the result of a merge? Not sure how to correct it. Father and son are same Pope-1817.....
posted by Tom Culver III
Pope-1817 seems to be the father of himself. (scratching my head on this one)
posted by Cynthia (Billups) B
Pope-2628 and Pope-1817 appear to represent the same person because: Same birth dates, spouse.

P  >  Pope  >  William Pope Sr.

Categories: Pope Name Study