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Ralph (Radcliffe) de Radcliffe (abt. 1355 - aft. 1430)

Ralph de Radcliffe formerly Radcliffe
Born about in Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
[sibling(s) unknown]
Husband of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died after after about age 75 in Englandmap
Problems/Questions Profile manager: Maryann Hurt private message [send private message]
Profile last modified | Created 21 Feb 2011
This page has been accessed 2,356 times.

Biography

Ralph de Radeclyf was the son of Ralph de Radeclyf.[1]

Ralph married Helen, the daughter of John de Massey of Tatton, knight, by Papal dispensation dated 18 Kal. January 1400, which was 15 December 1399.[1]

Evidences from Contemporaneous Records

At St Peter's, Rome, on 18 Kal. January 1400, To Ralph, donsel, nobleman, son of Ralph de Rade[c]lyf de Thorleton (sic), donsel, nobleman, and Helen (Elene), damsel, noblewoman, daughter of John de Massey of Tatton, knight, nobleman, of the diocese of Lichfield. Dispensation to contract marriage, notwithstanding that they are related in the fourth and fourth degree of kindred. Romani pontificis.[1]

Sources

  1. 1.0 1.1 1.2 W H Bliss and J A Twemlow, eds, 'Lateran Regesta 90: 1400-1401', Calendar of Papal Registers Relating To Great Britain and Ireland: Volume 5, 1398-1404, (London: 1904), 397-412, British History Online (http://www.british-history.ac.uk/cal-papal-registers/brit-ie/vol5/pp397-412 : accessed 12 January 2018). (f. 213d.)




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Comments: 2

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This profile is misplaced. The date of birth of his wife would have been when her father was 38 and her mother 45. The History of Parliament linked in the comment below this says "It was, no doubt, at the behest of his father, Sir Ralph, that Ralph Radcliffe the younger agreed, in December 1400, to the drawing up of a marriage contract between his infant son and Helen, a daughter of Sir John Massey of Tatton." Thus Helen (an infant in 1400) married the son of Ralph the younger. Ralph the younger already had a daughter Elizabeth born c. 1374, well before 1400. Both HOP and the above-quoted papal dispensation say that Helen Massey was the daughter of John, yet wife Helen is shown on wikitree as being the daughter of Hugh. If this Ralph is the one in HOP who died in the 1430s, then he would have been knighted at age 71 and served as MP from ages 59 to 73.

Geni, Ancestry and FamilySearch all have Elizabeth as the daughter of Ralph senior, son of William Radcliffe and Katherine Norley, with Elizabeth's mother as Ralph senior's unnamed first wife. Wikitree correctly has Ralph senior's wife as Margery (who is actually Ince-1 and the mother of his son-in-law), but HOP, http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1386-1421/member/radcliffe-sir-ralph-1406, identifies her as his second wife, whom he married c. 1389, when they were both around 60 years old.

Thus the Ralph of this profile would be the brother, not father, of Elizabeth, and his wife Helen should be disconnected from her parents, as she and Ralph were born in the 1390s, not 1350s.

posted by Michael Stafford
edited by Michael Stafford
Cecily (Unknown), the widow of Hugh IV de Venables of Kinderton (ca. 1386-1416), was his second wife. Is she in the records anywhere else such that we might discern her surname?
RADCLIFFE, Ralph (d.1432), of Blackburn and Smithills, Lancs.

Published in The History of Parliament: the House of Commons 1386-1421, ed. J.S. Roskell, L. Clark, C. Rawcliffe., 1993.

posted by Porter Fann

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