Robert
Ryves
aka Reve
Born in Blandford Forum, Dorset, England
Son of [father unknown] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Husband of
Johan (Unknown) Ryves
— married
[date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants 
Died
at about age 62
in Damory Court, Blandford Forum, Dorset, England
Profile last modified
| Created 19 May 2010
This page has been accessed 12,744 times.
Contents |
Biography
It is not known who his parents were or where he lived as a young man.
Marriage
Husband of Joan/ Johane (Unknown) Ryves. Some sources say she may be of the Brune or DeBrune family.[1]
Occupation
Robert Ryves was a wealthy man. He purchased Randleston ( also known as Ranston) in 36 Henry VIII (1545) and he purchased Damory Court at Blandford Forum in 1548. [2] [3]
Courtier to King Henry VIII, Nobleman, Armiger, and high member of the court of King Henry VIII About 1501 (citation needed)
Death
He died on 11 February 1551/2. His memorial in Blandford Church was destroyed during the fire of 1731. However, in 1644, Richard Symonds, an officer in the King's army visited Blandford and wrote a detailed description of the church and its memorials. He wroteBetweene the pillars of the chancel and the north yle stands another playne altar tombe, whereon is this inscription inlayed in brasse, and this coate only, west end: Argent, on a bend cotised sable three lozenges ermine, Ryves.[4] The Will of Robert Reve or Ryve of Blandford Forum, Dorset was written on the 20th day of October 1549. This was after the death of his son John. His grandson also named John (then only 13) was his heir. Probate was granted on 24 March 1552 [Ryves Wills Transcripts][5]
- Here lyeth the body of Robert Ryves who departeth this life on the 11th day of February, anno 1551
Notes
- Robert Reve ( or Ryve or Ryves ) of Blandford, Dorset, England is the first of the surname that that shows up in England on a record' [6] (this seems to be incorrect. The National Archives catalogue index contains the surname Reve from the 13th century onwards. These people were living in many parts of England including the West Country. The surname possible deriving from Reve or Reeve, a manorial steward Coleman-5109 05:10, 8 September 2016 (EDT))
- Robert Ryves is the Progenitor of the modern-day Reeves family, our most ancient ancestor by name and direct lineage. He may have been an early generation in England and may have had an ancestor that was born in the Languedoc region of France, but this is a subject of great contention and debate among even the most well-studied of Ryves Scholars.
- Of some fifty-six members of the family who attained manhood during the five generations succeeding the death of Robert, five had Knighthood confirmed upon them; one became Deputy Lord Lieutenant of Dorset; one, speaker of the Irish House of Lords; one, Warden of New College, Oxford; one, an Alderman of London; three High Sheriffs; one, Mayor of Shaftesbury; one, Town Clerk of Woodstock, and one, Steward of the University of Oxford.
- The Influence of Robert Ryves in encouraging education and loyal service to church and crown is indisputable. Robert Ryves was an avid supporter of four churches in the Blandford Parish area, which included Blandford Parish Church.
- With a Proven and Consistent record of service to God, Church and Crown, The Ryves family and their descendants, are deserving of having a replacement plaque identifying the family crypt within their original Church of Worship in Dorset County embodied in a memorial to Robert Ryves.[7]
Sources
- ↑ citation needed
- ↑ Hutchin's History of Dorset, 3rd Ed., Vol.III.
- ↑ Stuart Booth, Damory of Blandford Dorset Life http://www.dorsetlife.co.uk/2009/10/damory-of-blandford/
- ↑ quoted in John Hutchins The History and Antiquities of the County of Dorset Third edition, corrected, augmented, and improved by William Shipp and James Whitworth Hodson 1861-73 volume 1 p225
- ↑ The National Archives Will of Robert Reve or Ryve of Blandford Forum, Dorset PROB 11/35/113 probate granted 24 March 1552, http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D952931 images viewable on ancestry.co.uk
- ↑ The Dorsetshire Family of Ryves. Chapter 1., Pg. 1
- ↑ extracted from "Our Reeves" by Beaulah McGuire Reeves and Bessie Reeves Hoke.
- Childs, J. Rives. Reliques of the Rives (Ryves): being historical and genealogical notes of the ancient family Ryves of County Dorset and of the Rives of Virginia, an essay, sociological and historical of a family's contribution to the making of a nation. Lynchburg, Va.: J.P. Bell Co., 1929. (Note this book needs to be approached with caution. It relies on Hutchins for early material but the author has obviously not looked far for primary sources .'Robert Ryves made his will (in which he was described as ‘Robert Reve”), dated 20 October 1549, of which there is now no record.(sic) Hutchins gives as his issue by Joan[...]' p 2)
Is Robert your ancestor? Please don't go away!
Login to collaborate or comment, or
ask our community of genealogists a question.
Login to collaborate or comment, or ask our community of genealogists a question.
Sponsored Search by Ancestry.com
DNA Connections
It may be possible to confirm family relationships with Robert by comparing test results with other carriers of his Y-chromosome or his mother's mitochondrial DNA. Y-chromosome DNA test-takers in his direct paternal line on WikiTree:
It may be possible to confirm family relationships with Robert by comparing test results with other carriers of his Y-chromosome or his mother's mitochondrial DNA. Y-chromosome DNA test-takers in his direct paternal line on WikiTree:
- David Ryves
:
Family Tree DNA Y-DNA Test 37 markers, haplogroup E-M35, FTDNA kit #IN131715 - Stephen Reeves :
Family Tree DNA Y-DNA Test 700 markers, haplogroup H-Y67509, FTDNA kit #275491
Have you taken a DNA test? If so, login to add it. If not, see our friends at Ancestry DNA.
- Parents of Robert Ryves (Reve) of Dorset Mar 23, 2020.
- Merge Reeves-1861 into Ryves-16 Sep 4, 2016.
Robert is 24 degrees from Emeril Lagasse, 20 degrees from Nigella Lawson, 23 degrees from Maggie Beer, 40 degrees from Mary Hunnings, 30 degrees from Joop Braakhekke, 29 degrees from Michael Chow, 23 degrees from Ree Drummond, 25 degrees from Paul Hollywood, 23 degrees from Matty Matheson, 24 degrees from Martha Stewart, 32 degrees from Danny Trejo and 28 degrees from Molly Yeh on our single family tree. Login to find your connection.
It is known in 1250 many Italians were involved in the wool trade. I believe this because the Y DNA E-V13 was dominant in northern Italy around that time.
It is also possible they were there long before as stated here "The Romans from Italy were the first Italians to settle in the British Isles along with other people from various parts of the Roman Empire. They came as far back as 55 and 54 BC when Julius Caesar (initially landing in Deal) led expeditionary campaigns in the south-east of England,[4] and then again in AD 43 when Emperor Claudius invaded and subsequently conquered the British islands. Historian Theodore Mommsen calculated that in the five centuries of Roman presence in the British isles, more than 50,000 Roman soldiers (mainly from The Balkans) moved to live permanently in Roman Britain."
edited by Solomon Reeves Jr
Significant frequencies of E-V13 have also been observed in towns in Wales, around Chester (ancient Deva Victrix) in England, and Scotland. The old trading town of Abergele on the northern coast of Wales in particular showed 7 out of 18 local people tested were in this lineage (approximately 40%), as reported in Weale et al. (2002).
Some scholars (e.g. Steven Bird (2007) have attributed the presence of E-V13 in Great Britain, especially in areas of high frequency, to Roman settlement during the 1st through 4th centuries CE. The Roman Army including men of Balkan ancestry, including Thracians, Illyrians and Dacians. In particular, Steven Bird proposes a connection to a modern region encompassing Kosovo, southern Serbia, northern Macedonia, and extreme northwestern Bulgaria – a region corresponding to the Roman province of Moesia Superior, which was identified by Peričic et al. (2005) as harboring the highest frequency worldwide of this subclade.[Note 5]
It is also notable that E-V13 appears to be absent in modern central England, especially the West Midlands and South Midlands.[Note 6] Bird (2007) notes that the collective genetic profile of the English Midlands is similar to that of the Dutch province of Friesland, which was not colonised by Rome, but was, like England, subject to Anglo-Saxon settlement. The so-called "E3b hole" in Central England, according to Steven Bird, may reflect a population replacement – of Romano-British people by Anglo-Saxons.[Note 7] Thomas et al. (2006) raises the possibility of "apartheid"-type, elite dominance social structures in Anglo-Saxon England. Bird (2007) concurs: "The 'E3b hole' suggests that either (a) a massive displacement of the ... Romano-British population by invasion or, (b) the substantial genetic replacement of Romano-British Y-DNA through an elite dominance ("apartheid") model... Regardless of the mechanism, the Central England region ... with its lack of E3b haplotypes, is the area having the most "striking similarity in the distribution of Y-chromosomes" with Friesland."
From Family Tree DNA.
Today, the highest concentrations of E-V13 in Europe can be found in Kosovo with about 45 %. E-V13 varies in other Balkan regions between 5 and 25 %. In Germany and England E-V13 is rare (3-5% of the male population). There is evidence to suggest (Byrd et. al, 2007) that the E-V13 connection between the Balkans and England is based on Balkan (in case of England Thracian) auxiliary troops with the Roman Army, who were stationed in England following 150 AD. This project attempts to establish such a connection for SouthWest Germany.
edited by Solomon Reeves Jr
Your posts so far have confused me as to what your theory is. Your second post seems to indicate an Italian connection via Balkan soldiers in the Roman Army settled in Britannia while your first has a connection via Italian wool merchants. I find the the theory of Balkan soldiers spreading E-V13 to be far fetched because a large majority of the troops stationed in Britannia were from Gaul, I'm sure the Balkan soldiers were sent east to hold or expand into Asia Minor. I think the first theory has some stronger roots.
My research into the etymology of Rives (and it's alternate spellings) seem to go to either Germanic roots meaning Bailiff or Romantic roots of the Vulgar Latin rivus meaning stream, depending on where you think the family name came from. Personally I feel that the family has enough ties to France and the different spellings of Ryves are Romantic enough that I think that Ryves comes from the Romantic side and so it wouldn't be extremely off for the family to be from northern Italy.
In the 1411-1417, 1415-1416, and 1416-1417 records held by Shakespeare Birthplace Trust you will find the name John Reve, of Weston-subter-Egge. John Reve, who is the forefather of the Ryves’ of Dorset, was living in Weston-sub-Edge (also known as Weston Subedge) the modern day spelling of Weston-subter-Egge. Weston-sub-Edge is located in Cotswold, Gloucestershire, England. This Cotswold village, which was first recorded in the Domesday Book, is a small village with about 180 homes lying between the Vale of Evesham and the Cotswold town of Chipping Campden. It sits at the foot of a hill, named Dover’s hill in 1612. The Domesday Book refers to this village as Westone. The village has also been referred as Weston-under-Edge.
The area he lived in was a very prosperous for its wool trade. In fact just above the village he lived in has plenty of sheep right on Dover's hill. Someone who lived near that area was William Greville and I like to compare Robert Ryves to him because people believe they are Norman in origin. Maybe or maybe not. William Greville was also amongst the richest and most influential wool merchants of his era. He was the leading purchaser of wool from the Cotswolds Hills.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Greville
The Richard Reve in this 1480 record, who comes from the family in these records 65 years earlier, is no doubt related to Robert Ryves (Reve) of Dorset. It is known that during these times in England, families would marry to consolidate land holdings. As we can see, this is just what the Ryves of Dorset did with the Swayne, Pitt, and Aden (The Aden family went by many aliases which I will get to later) families. George Ryves born 1588 also marries his cousin Elizabeth of the same surname! In Robert Ryves's (Reve’s) will we only find that he refers to himself as Reve. Only after his death he is then referred to as Ryve or Ryves. We can see this in his will and many other records before he died. His birth name was then of course Reve. In his will he has the name William Pytt. In his wife’s will Johan, we can find the name Peter Monsell (Peter Cowper alias Monsell). You can also find the name John Pytt in her will.
Through research we can find the following records in Dorchester:
Fol. [138] 128. 643. Charter of Robert Aden, made to Edith Aden.
Robert Barbet, alias dictus Robert Aden, of Dorchester, draper (reciting that Queen Mary, by letters patent under the Great Seal, inter cetera, granted to Thomas Reve and Giles Isham, gentleman, and their heirs, 23rd July, second year of her reign [1554], a messuage and garden adjacent, in Dorchester, formerly in the tenure of Roger Bond, and afterwards in that of Robert Snellynge, between the tenement of William Palmer on the east and that of John Peryn on the west, late parcel of the lands and possessions of Thomas Seymor, Knight, Lord Seymor of Sudeley, attainted of high treason, and before of the late Preceptory or Hospital of Mayne, to hold of the Queen as of the manor of Easte Grenewiche, by fealty only in free socage, and not in capite, and that the said Thomas Reve and Giles Isham have sold the same to Robert Barbet aforesaid) now sells the said messuage and garden to his mother, Edith Barbet, alias dicta Edith Aden, and her heirs, containing in length, viz., from the back door [postico] in the south part of the messuage to a certain hedge of elder (sepem sambuceam), 340 feet by measure, and in length 30 feet by measure. Warranty. William Stone, jun., and John Howell to deliver seisin. 24th November, I and 2 Philip and Mary [1554]. (Cf. 644.)
Fol. [139] 129. 645. Charter of Joan Ryve, made to William Aden.
Joan Ryve, of Blandford Forum, Dorset, widow, late relict of Robert Ryve, of the same, deceased, in her pure widowhood for the intimate love and special zeal she bears to William Aden, alias vocatus William Barbet, of Dorchester, draper, etc., grants to him and his heirs two messuages in Dorchester, (i) One in St. Peter's parish, now in the separate tenure of John Dowredge, on the west side of High South Street, between the burgage of John Stratford on the south and that of John Peryn on the north ; and (2) the other in All Saints' parish, in the separate tenure of John Baunton, on the south side of High East Street, between the burgage of Walter Buclond on the east and that belonging to the parish church of All Saints on the west, to hold of the chief lords of the fee. Warranty. William Stone, jun., and John Howell to deliver seisin. 4th June, 3 and 4 Philip and Mary [1557]. [Cf. 623.)
Thomas Reve appears to be related to Robert Ryves (Reve) of Dorset. Remember the name Aden? The Aden (Adyn) family went by aliases Barbet/Barbett/Barbette and Barbour. Remember this to refer to later especially Peter Cowper alias Monsell. Now the name Bond in the record is also very important because Denis Bond born 1588 is a descendant of the Ryves of Dorset. Not only is he a descendant, his family was also very involved with the Swayne, Pitt, and Churchill families. The Swayne family was also very involved in the Reve, Bond, Churchill, and Pitt familes. Remember I said families would marry to consolidate land holdings? It is a group of closely related families. The name Palmer is another name to refer to later. And no doubt the Ryves (Reves’) of Dorset were closely involved with the Barbour family. Mary Ryves, the daughter of John Ryves who is the son of Robert Ryves (Reve), married an Aden alias Barbour. Also remember the name Stratford to refer to later.
Through more research you can find the following record in Northamptonshire:
PCC REG COODE PROB 11/33 Will of OLIVER, Robert of London 1550
"Item I give to the poor parishioners and householders of Blandford Forum in the county of Dorset where I was born forty shillings to be distributed and given at the oversight of my brother Olyver, Mr. Reve, William Pytte [Pitt] and Peter Cowper, parishioners there where as most need shall require"
"Item I will that there be made four several sermons in the church of Blandford aforesaid for the setting forth of God's glory and the edifying of the congregration there on four several Sundays next after my death, that is to say, for every Sunday one by some godly preacher or preachers to be named and appointed by my brother, Mr Reve, William Pytte and Peter Cowper, to which preacher or preachers for the same four sermons so to be made I give 26s 8d."
Remember Thomas Reve of London, gent? Now you have a proven connection to Robert Ryves (Reve) and Robert Oliver of London. No doubt the Ryves of Dorset had connections to London. Not only does Robert Oliver mention these names, he also mentions Paynter in his will. This is a name to remember to refer to later. Now let’s look at the connections of Thomas Reve. He had a connection to the Cotton family which is another name to refer to later. He also had a business dealing with the Churchill family (which is something I don’t think has much to do with anything).
Now let’s get to the record in 1480. In this 1480 record you find the family names Barbour, Stratford, Couper (an earlier variant of Cowper), Cowper (same as Couper), Palmar (Palmer), Cotoun (Cotton), and of course Reve. This record is in Warwickshire same as the ones 65 years earlier with the same names in them. In these earlier records you find the family names Couper, Barbour, Compton (which occurs in the the inquisition for John Ryves), Payntour (Paynter), Swayn (Swayne), Palmer, Olyve (Oliver), and finally Reve.
I also notice in a 1525 record the Reve family breaking into branches (they go separate ways) which happens with all families of course. In this 1525 record I find the family names Maunsell (Cowper alias Monsell), Olyver (Oliver), Payne (In John Ryves inquisitions), Reve, and many other names that show up in the records of 1415. This break occurs in Bristol.
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Ryves_wills - Will Transcription
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/ff1d801a-9f39-4e96-b4f8-e4c9783ca72e - 1480 Record
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/a54e3440-8554-4099-a9db-3d2ec7426e4c - 1415 Record
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/506de355-ef09-4e79-8ac3-3297739b3ddc - 1416 Record
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/2a7e9bd3-c03b-4f3d-8122-674f573e9646 - 1417 Record
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/b4beeb52-a878-4b1a-8dc3-5c386e17c8fd - 1525 Record
And some more breaking into branches related to Robert Ryves (Reve):
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/ee46dd4e-3073-4a64-9f0f-cddab51dfa0e - 1455 Record
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/e6774bf6-945d-40f1-be97-5faf436ab51c - 1482 Record
edited by Solomon Reeves Jr
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7481031 - 1538 Record
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5706561 - 1558 Record
edited by Solomon Reeves Jr
At the moment I can't see the relevance of the set of records extracted from the accounts of the Guild of the Holy Cross at Stratford . The first in the list (1480 is from a page of rents collected from tenements held from the Guild. They are set out according to the catalogue entry under headings so presumably a Richard Reve paid his rent for a tenement in one of the three Stratford Streets mentioned above his name (Swinestrete...) The whole set of rentpayers exemplifies the use of occupational names, Richard Reve appears before a Richard Labourer Others on the list include Barbour, Workman, Carpenter, Iremonger, Bocher, Ostler, Clerke, Couper. The 1455 one includes a Clement Swayn, of Stratford, "werkeman"; Swayne is a word of Anglo Saxon (Old Norse origin,) it means servant. In Like barbers, coopers, ironmongers, butchers, ostlers and reves , it was not an uncommon occupation and hence the names appear all over the country. Why should John Reve living in Gloucestershire in 1417 , (he owed his subscription for the lights of this very popular) guild ) be related to a Richard Reve living in a rented tenement in Stratford upon Avon in 1480 ?
Likewise, there was a Stephen Reve in Bristol in the 14th century, http://archives.bristol.gov.uk/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=P.AS%2fD%2fHS%2fE%2f7&pos=3 The surname doesn't just pop up in the 15th. There were also Swaynes in Bristol , a John Swayne whightawyer (harness or saddlemaker) lived there in 1475 and a William Swayne way back in 1369.(undoubtedly there were others, records from this era are relatively rare) However, Thomas Pitt of Bristol (will dated May 1613, Edward Pitt and Christopher Pitt (will 1597) (I think my transcript of these wills is on here ) were the brothers of John Pitt of Blandford and grandsons of Nicholas Pitt of Blandford . The Pitts business was predominantly in shipping goods to and from the continent, hence part of the family establishing themselves in that City. They are probably linked to the Pitts of Weymouth but nothing substantial has been found. Denis Bond was the son of Margaret Pitt from the Weymouth Pitts.
The Aden alias Barbets lived in Dorchester from at least the 14th century.They are unlikely to be related to anyone of a similar name living in Stratford upon Avon at the same time. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Aden-105 is probably the same man who appears as Robert Barbet in this charter of 1489 https://archive.org/stream/cu31924028114357#page/n389/mode/2up He may also may or may not)be related to Nicholas Barbour alias Nicholas in a charter of 1407. I haven't yet followed him forwards.The use of alias names is common in parts of England (some of my husband's ancestors from Dorset used Ford alias Lawrence as late as the 17th C and were even baptised with the full alias name.In my own family I have several generations of Caporn alias Fitzhugh ).Although the names seem to continue for generations they can sometimes be traced back to a mother's maiden name .
The Bond family, were not descendants of the Ryves. They can be shown to come from Devon to Dorset the 15th C. Lastly the will of Robert Oliver is interesting but the request was a common type of request in those days( although he was a very vehement protestant(no masses, dirges, month minds or bells etc, ) Robert Reve and William Pitt were undoubtedly leading burgesses, elders of the town (died 1551 and 1552 respectively) and as such would be the natural people to ask to make sure that it was done. Sadly we don't have any church records from this era from Blandford. In 1542, John Olyver appears in the Muster Rolls for Blandford (bow sh[eaf] arr[ows] sword dagger)
When you say "The Aden alias Barbets lived in Dorchester from at least the 14th century.They are unlikely to be related to anyone of a similar name living in Stratford upon Avon at the same time." This makes no sense at all. How come I have Reeves relatives that I have no idea of? Obviously because we move around and we break into separate branches. I can say I am related to a Ryves family living in England while I am in the United States living at the same time. You can't be saying the Barbet family (of Robert Aden) was in Dorchester from at least the 14th century when you don't know where Robert Aden came from or who his parents were.
One thing is for certain. They had connections to London.
And Robert Ryves was a very wealthy wool merchant. So again the documents are very relevant.
I researched over 700 Reve(s) and Ryve(s) records.
edited by Solomon Reeves Jr
edited by Solomon Reeves Jr
1. Hutchins - I think I'm looking at the 3rd edition - the most obvious error (to me) is that he has an Elizabeth Ryves as a daughter of Sir William Ryves marrying Edward Berkeley of Pylle. This is also given in earlier editions of Burke and by default by Childs. However, A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Peerage and Baronetage, the Privy Council, Knightage and Companionage, Bernard Burke, Ashworth Peter Burke, Harrison, 1910, Debrett's Genealogical Peerage of Great Britain and Ireland, William Pickering, 1847, The Peerage, Baronetage, Knightage & Companionage of the British Empire for 1907, Volume 2, Edmund Lodge Kelly's Directories, 1907, The Peerage and Orders of Knighthood, Joseph Foster, Nichols and Sons, 1883 and The History of Parliament: the House of Commons 1660-1690, ed. B.D. Henning, 1983., (phew!) give Edward Berkeley as marrying Elzabeth Ryves, co-heiress and daughter of John Ryves of Ranston - this is the Elizabeth that Hutchins gives exactly the same burial date for as that of Elizabeth, daughter of George Ryves and Mary Chafin (Chaffin/Chiffinch). The marriage record between Edward Berkeley and Elizabeth Ryves locates this marriage as having taken place at Hanford (28 jan 1672) - which is a stone's throw away from Ranston. Marriages would typically take place in the bride's parish and this wedding did not take place in Ireland! I therefore take the view that the Hutchins pedigree is incorrect on this. Also, Sir William's will refers to his daughter Elizabeth as 'Dame Elizabeth Leigh' - this absolutely was the daughter who married Sir Arthur Leigh - the dates don't work for those who seem to think that this Elizabeth had a second marriage to Edward Berkeley. Maybe saying 'riddled with errors' was a bit harsh but this in particular seems to have been replicated everywhere I look!
2. Yes Damory Court was not a castle! Why do people make these things up! My notes on Damary Court are (please feel free to pick these to pieces Helen):
At the time of the reign of King John, the lands which became the estate of Damory Court were owned by Robert, Earl of Leicester(3). In about 1200, King John granted the revenue of the land to the French Order of St Marie and the abbess of the Order became Lord of the Manor, which assumed the name of the ‘Manor of Dame Marie’. This is very close to being ‘Damemarie’. The manor, which had been first mentioned in 1363(1), was situated on the east side of Blandford Forum and originally fell within the parish of Pimperne. After the Order was expelled from England in the 15th century, the manor became known as ‘Damariscourt’ and passed to Henry VIII in 1546 in a part-exchange arrangement with the Church. The following year, after Henry’s death, Edward VI gave the manor, farm and ‘Damory courte’ to his uncle, Edward Seymour, the 1st Duke of Somerset and brother of Jane Seymour, who in turn sold it to Robert Ryves in 1549.
Damary Court was occupied by Robert's eldest son John (1514-1549) who pre-deceased his father. The manor passed to John's eldest son, also named John Ryves (1536-1587) and subsequently to Sir John Ryves (1557-1624) who died without heir. Damory Court passed to Sir John's nephew, George (b. 1600) and finally to George's son John (d.aft. 1663). John was the last of the Damory estate.
Nearby to the house was the ‘celebrated’ Damory Oak, which in 1747 stood 75 feet high and had a girth of 12 feet. Being hollow, this tree had reputedly provided shelter for a family following the Blandford fire of 4th June 17311.. Tradition also has it that it was so big that it was even run as an ale shop by an old man during the Civil War. Sadly, it eventually became moribund and was broken up for firewood in 1755(3). The house was largely abandoned after the Civil War, although possibly Lady Mary Bankes, who had led the defence of Corfe Castle against Parliamentarian forces may have stayed there in the war’s aftermath before Kingston Lacy House was built. Lady Bankes’ children were certainly staying at Damory Court at Christmas 1645 when she was at her daughter Alice’s house at Brockmer. The house was eventually destroyed by fire in 1845.
The only solid relic of Damory Court that remains is the small ruin of St Leonard’s Chapel, whose walls remain as a memorial amid the creeping bricks and concrete of the 20th and 21st centuries. Yet the Damory name was commemorated in the names of two inns in the town.
1 An Inventory of the Historical Monuments in Dorset, Volume 4, North, HMSO, London, 1972. 2 Dorset Life article by Nick Churchill, February 2017. 3 Dorset Life article by Stuart Booth 2009 – citations given as Blandford Museum.
Helen is correct that Robert did not acquire the buildings of Milton Abbey, but granted use of the land (to grow sheep on?!).
I also agree with Helen that Robert was of the Merchant class - and that the family later traded in other produce to wool.
I further agree that there is no concrete connection between the Blandford family and the Dunster, Somerset famly - I will change my notes to 'may be connected' in due deference. This said, the Reve name variant is not common within this line of the family or for that matter Reeves (although it is not unknown), whereas Rives is - e.g. Jane Ryves' (Reade) memorial in St Mary Magdalene, Woodstock where her father's name is given as George Rives. As an aside, and on the topic of Dunster: “In 1521, a John Ryves, curate of Dunster was granted the lease of the Chantry of the Holy Trinity in the parish church, with the benefit of its profits, on the condition that he maintained the Chantry House and provided an ‘honest chaplain’ to say mass for the founders and benefactors” – Dunster Castle Records, vol. no. xvii. ... this maybe worth some further investigation.
edited by David Ryves
edited by Solomon Reeves Jr
deleted by Solomon Reeves Jr
D-CRI/A/35/7/4 Title West and East Hemsworth. Bargain and sale. Parties:1. Silvester Tavener, gentleman. 2. Robert Reve, Blandford Forum. Premises: former free chapel in West Hemsworth with 8a land and tithes, now or formerly in tenure of Robert Skovyn [sic], to be held of the king as of manor of East Greenwich. Latin Date 30 Jul 1549 Extent 1 doc Level Item
And also that is a spelling used in early IPMs https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_p=1500&_q=Reve+Dorset
I just wanted to answer to your email about the other will here. You didn't give the full reference or name so I've had to guess but I think you might be referring to this one . If not please give me the name that Ancestry indexes it under (they sometimes have some very odd interpretations) Reference: PROB 11/34/168 Description: Will of Robert Ryvies, Husbandman of Corscombe, Dorset Date: 06 June 1551
This ,as it's National Archives catalogue entry(rather than the Ancestry one) says, is for a husbandman. Probate was granted in June 1551, Robert Ryves was buried 11 February 1551/2 ie 7 months later so this couldn't be his will, This family were shepherds, bequests are of sheep, farming implements including his crook, and household utensils. What it does serve to demonstrate is that there was at least one other family living not far away (about 35 miles from Blandford) with a similar name.
"Several difficulties occur in the first part of the pedigree, which does not agree with the records. Mr Ryves transmitted it as perfect as he could but doubted its accuracy, and ingeniously confessed that he was the first of his family that ever concerned themselves about it, which is unfortunately the case in many other families.Many dates are wanting branches are confounded and little notice is taken of the Ranston line in some Visitation Books. " Underneath the pedigree are Hutchin's notes from records. Compared to the later editions the pedigree is very brief and of course Hutchins died in 1773 . Nevertheless, it has quite correctly Elizabeth and Mary, the 2 daughters of George buried at Shroton (Iwerne Courtney) in August 1628. Hutchin's has recorded the inscription on the floor of the church. This isn't there now, I went looking for them once. The whole floor was replaced a few years ago. They found a burial vault but from memory this seemed to be the Freke vault. The baptisms and burials of the twins on the same day are in the register. The Vol 3 editors obviously haven't managed to correct it all,hence their disclaimer (though am surprised they didn't seem to check the Shroton registers in this case and the note of the burial inscription with date is retained in the text [p 100] )
As to the spelling : Ryves, Reves or Rives,all three are used interchangeably by the scribes writing the wills. Both wills start however with the spelling Reve. By contrast the Shroton register uses Ryve, but these entries are slightly later. I haven't the foggiest idea how it was pronounced in the 16th Century in a local accent! To put it into perspective, I'm researching the administration of the poor law in a nearby village. The spelling of the names in the overseers account books from the early 19th C is also totally inconsistent. ( and then again so is the spelling of local village names)
I've transcribed Johan's will and will place it on the same page as John's. I get the impression that she wasn't on good terms with her grandson John. She leaves him a small amount of money and some silver on condition he doesn't dispute the will.She also leaves him a chest containing deeds and evidence . She owned some property in her own right .She leaves the income from this to be divided between various grandchildren.The property eventually to go to Robert (his younger siblings,Richard and Thomas by default. )She mentions a daughter Margaret Marham, a widow. Her husband's will only mentioned 2 son in laws so this is an additional daughter. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Ryves_wills
Edit For interest, as well as uploading the page from the 1st edition. I've also added what must be one of the earliest versions of the pedigree, drawn up by Denis Bond d 1658 in his personal chronology. Hutchins had access to this and mentions using it. ( Transcribing the Bond Chronology, the main part includes lots of dates and odd details of events in his extended family is one of my neglected projects so I already had the photos. As you can see he also tried his hand at creating pedigrees of his own and his 'neighbours' families. He was sceptical of one of the Heralds offerings for his own pedigree (said the Herald was a sangue papist and that he believed him not)
edited by Helen (Coleman) Ford
I would caution against placing too much faith in Childs - much of his work is based on Hutchins' pedigree which is itself riddled with errors! He is also somewhat inclined to hypothesise!
Some may find my own notes on Robert Ryves of interest:
"Robert Ryves, a ‘Merchant Clothier’, is the first credibly documented ancestor of the UK, Irish, Australian and (possibly) US and branches of the Ryves family of Dorset origin. Where he came from is subject to what is sometimes wild speculation. The most plausible explanation as to his origin, is that he was of Norman descent and was connected with the Ryves family (originally 'de Ryves' - the 'de' having been dropped by 1390) that had resided in the wool centre of Dunster in Somerset since at least the early part of the 14th Century. The wool/cloth trade was Robert's business as it appears to have been for his likely forebears and, for the most part, continued to be for his immediate descendants. His social status was certainly that of a wealthy landowner and he could certainly claim to be the 'Lord' of several manors. However, he was certainly not a 'Lord of the Realm' or a 'Courtier' in the Court of Henry VIII as some have claimed.
What is beyond doubt is that Robert was living at Ranston, Blandford Forum as early as 1542 and possibly as early as 1533. In 1533, John Knyghte wrote to Thomas Cromwell "I doubt whether my old master will obtain Ranston or not. I wish to know what order you will take, as I have made the best I could of all the land Sir George Frogmerton left at Michaelmas without a tenant". Initially, Robert may have occupied the property as a tenant, purchasing it together with 1600 acres of land in June 1544. He purchased the manor of North Cheriton in Gloucestershire from Sir John Rogers in the same year and Damary Court in Blandford Forum in 1549. Sir John Rodgers (1507-65) held, amongst other positions, that of Steward of Blandford. He also, in 1544, granted Robert and Joan lands in Charleton, Dorset and Netley monastery, Hampshire. Robert was granted the main dwelling house and farm of Hemsworth, Dorset, the tenure of Mylton (Milton) monastery as well as the manor of Mylton (Milton) in Hemsworth in 1546 and further lands in the parish of St. Mary de Blandford and Blandford Forum including Shene priory, which had been granted to him by patent already in March 1553. Robert therefore seems to have benefitted greatly from the consequences of the Dissolution of the Monasteries which had taken place between 1536 and 1541.
From petitions made by his great x3 grandson, George Ryves (in 1626) it would appear that he had also been granted the manor of Luscombe (Lyssecomb). At the time of his death he also held property Pointington in Somerset.
According to Henry VIII Musters (1542), this being an inventory of weaponry distributed amongst the English population, Robert Ryves (described as Rob Ryve) possessed: 2 pairs of harness 'for man bill', a bow and sheath of arrows, 2 swords, 2 daggers and a horse.
There is a will dated 20th October 1559 attributed to Robert although, this being dated 8 years after his death, is more likely to be that of his grandson Robert Reve (? – 1576)."
I'm not sure that I would agree that Hutchin's pedigree is 'riddled with errors' but it depends upon the edition used, The editors of the 3rd edition say that the one in the 2nd edition was more copious than the original given by Hutchin's (i.e.in the first edition) and that pedigree was very eroneous. They corrected what errors they found but found 'no means of testing the accuracy of every item. There is an obvious error in the year written for John's will, however in the following line we read correctly that his grandson Richard was still living on 20 October 1549. I suggest that the error occurred in editing and printing.Where I've been able to check, things like children mentioned in wills or parish register dates where the registers still exist (as at Shroton) they have been accurate.
John Reve 's (Ryve's) will mentions three children. John (deceased), the wife of John Swayne and the wife of William Hunton. It mentions three grandsons,including John the heir and 3 grand daughters. The will is referenced on the profile and has been there for some time.i I've revised my transcription though there are no great differences)(I've done a lot more since that one and think I've got better at it Hutchin's (and his editors) actually include very little about Robert Ryves. I could only find a handful of references to him over the 4 volumes. One is the pedigree (vol 4 p 96) which mentions the dates of acquisition ofRanston (36 Henry VIII) Damory Court ( 3Edw V1) .Hutchin's records the burial plaque quoting Richard Symonds 1644 description.Otherwise there are very brief references to when he acquired various properties. Absolutely no speculation as to his origins
I feel that he fits in very well with the group of Dorset merchants who came to the fore in the mid 16th C. These merchants were not solely involved in the wool trade but it was an important business. His son in law was John Swayne and clearly from the will an important member of the family. Swayne was one of this group who had not been gentry but had developed trade with the continent. His overseer William Pytt (whether it was Pitt of Blandford or Pitt of Melcombe ) was also very much in this same 'class'. ""Pitt’s father-in-law, John (or Richard) Swayne, also made the move from village yeoman to Blandford merchant. He frequently shipped iron out of Poole for other south-coast ports, and had with other Swaynes) bought up monastic lands outside of town. Swayne, too, appears in the surviving records as an active member of the Dorset merchant community in these years.." Robert Tittler Townspeople and Nation: English Urban Experiences, 1540-1640 p. 67 Stanford University Press 2001
Damory Court was not a castle (as I've seen in some places) it was a relatively small 'mansion' house with land. It was still standing after the fire of Blandford .The post fire map shows it's parameters(need to find image)
According to Hutchin's his property in West Hemselworth ( Hemsworth in the parish of Shapwick) was a mansion and a farm, though was once a small manor .This had formerly been owned by the Abbey at Milton and was granted at the dissolution at a rent of 13s 4d to Sir J Roger who then had licence to alienate it to Robert Ryves. 35 Henry VIII. (Hutchins, vol 3 p 168) This was not Milton Abbey.That had been acquired by Sir Sir John Tregonwell in 1540 (it cost him £1000) https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Tregonwell-12 The Tregonwells continued in possession of Milton for many generations. Another property in Shapwick was acquired in 36 Henry V111 These were lands originally possessed by Shene priory and were granted to George Rolle for £681 6s 4d. Rolle then conveyed them to Robert Ryves and his wife Jane (Hutchins vol 3 167) Ryves also had tenure of a messuage and thirteen acres of land plus common rights for 40 sheep plus land in Long Blandford, Littelton and Candle Marsh plus land in Blandford St Mary this was granted to 'imter alia' Thomas Boxley and Robert Reve in 2 Edw V1 (Vol 1 p 289)
Robert's wife Johan wrote a will, it was written 4th December 1560 (1560/1) and probated 4 Feb in the same year.I have a copy of it but don't appear to have transcribed it. I'll work on it now.
At the moment, I've not seen any links to this Somerset family as convincing. Reve (Ryves) is a common name .
edited by Helen (Coleman) Ford
First they were not huguenots. This is a myth and theory made by James Childers. They simply were not being persecuted and all of a sudden happened to be part of nobility. Another myth is they are from Montaillou France. The Rives family of Montaillou France does not suggest any association with nobility or the normans. The thought that they come from Languedoc is only a theory made by Childers. I am not criticizing Childers and I have to admit he did a good job researching but we all make mistakes in our research. Now we just have to continue with the research. During the time of Childers did his research it was thought that all Reeves were related though this proves to be false. I feel these myths have held us back from making any progress in our research. It is time to disprove these theories.
Some records I have found is proof of the name change of Ryvers to Ryves. 2) Patric Everard
Lease for life of messuage and curtilege in le Sonyngere, Dunster, next the Chapelwaye. rent, a red rose wit. Ralf Durburgh; John Ryvers; Wm Cloutsham; John Stoweye; Wm Baillyf. 31 March 1389, at Dunster tagged seal, ? griffin crest, on helm over shield bearing 2 mullets
in chief, and crescent, cadency mark of 2nd son. endorsed `de la Heybere ten.'
8a 1/97 1) Adam Prous of Dunster
2) Patric Everard, John Benyn and Simon Ralegh
Grant of a burgage in Waterstrete, Dunster with house, garden and meadow between tenement of Rob Ryves and burgage of John Osborn, which he had by gift and legacy of Simon Brodewode. wit. John Ryves; John Stowey; John Jeol; Walte Yarte; Rob Dyere 20 July 1390, at Dunster
It looks like the name went from Ryvers to Ryves http://kimsreevegenealogy.blogspot.com/2010/09/four-brothers-from-france.html
deleted by Solomon Reeves Jr
He claims a French origin on page xx, but doesn't mention Huguenots.
archive books IPM John Ryves 1625
I've certainly seen no evidence to support it. The name he used was Reve, which is a name found elsewhere in England at the time.
Blandford Forum was already a market town in the 15th C and returned 2 members of parliament. but Damory Court may have been quite small. The name Damory survives in the names of roads and most notably on the side of the local buses . There is an article and map herehttp://www.dorsetlife.co.uk/2009/10/damory-of-blandford/ .Shroton AKA Iwerne Courtney where Ranston is situated is a village and today a tiny place.
According to Childs, "Robert Ryves was a French Huguenot who emigrated to England in 1545 from Languedoc area of France and purchased Randleston (Ranston Castle) and 1600 acres of land in Dorsetshire, England. Three years later he purchased Damory Court. Both properties were near the village of Blandford in Dorset. His wife's name was Joan (SNU). They had one son (John) and two daughters."
Duplication extends to daughter Agnes who also has unsourced birth dates.(there aren't baptism records for these dates) The 'other' Agnes though has the correct children so there is one side of a family here and another one linked to the 'duplicate' . Merging brings two sides of the family together
birth date, I know of no sources for Robert's birthdate (no-one really knows where he came from before buying Randleston) He has to have been old enough to have a 20 year old grandson who inherited on 24 June 1556 (Hutchins ) Robert's, will confirms that John son of John will come of age at 20 1490 seems a reasonable estimate but he could have been born before that.