Harriett Jane (Unknown) Riddle (abt. 1745 - 1785)

Tennessee became the 16th state Wednesday, June 1, 1796, prior to that it was referred to as Province of North Carolina, Southwest Territory

Roberts-12515 and Rodgers-3504 do not represent the same person because: Different LNAB, very little in common

Rodgers-3504 and Unknown-529297 appear to represent the same person because: Same name, same husband, same dates. Use 'Rodgers'

Unknown-529297 and Rodgers-3504 do not represent the same person because: While we know this is the same individual, it is an ongoing research project for several to find out if she was a Rodgers or Roberts. She can not be merged into this profile until some solid records are found to support her lnab.

Unknown-529297 and Rodgers-3504 appear to represent the same person because: they share the same vital statistics and the same spouse.

Family group record sent to me by Wanda West, it's an old document and some notes below. Out of the corner of my eye, Harriet Happy Rogers, Roberts, Sr. father name: James Roberts (Capt. British Army). no idea where she got that info, none of the papers as I sort through them state so. Not sure why the eldest children didn't go to him and am partial to the theory that Dozewell is her father and Roberts likely being brother.

So, I'm curious seeing soooooooo many references to records of Indgenous ancestry of William and Moses, etc. where are these sites getting references? If mulatto was African American, it would naturally show on that side and my own DNA, and no Indigenous results for just that side of my relatives, except if they married Cherokee and on the Dawes or descend from it via Cherokee or another tribe.

It's one thing to be told a story, it's another to come across records referring to tribes or mulatto. Yet, doesn't show on the DNA tests for that side of my family. So where are the references coming from that aren't showing what's on records? Message me private or email, I'm more and more curious to understand DNA. So far I'm seeing references are to ancient skeletal remains, which explains why my actual tribe on my paternal line isn't stated, just locations of "indigenous" regions.

Dozwell Rogers and other info to help...

I have several papers of research by numerous relatives going back to the late 90s. One noting: "Happy Rogers d/o Dozwell Rogers probably in Pittylvania Co., VA" regarding married to "William Riddle born on the Flatt River in Orange Co., NC about 1751".

Fincastle Co., VA summons and court records: 1770 Doss Rogers Vs. Obediah Terrel and 1788 Dosewell Rogers vs. John Roberts.

Ref to Order book 2 pg 309 March 5, 1782 "Ordered that John Roberts who has been inimical to the American cause be received as a citizen of this state and under the protection of the same on his taking the Oath of Alligiance and giving security for his good behavior for twelve months and one day where upon the said John Roberts acknoledges himself indebted to this commonwealth in the sum of twenty pounds in security and Dozawell Rogers and John Rice in the sum of ten pounds each to be levied of their respective lands & Chattels and to the Commonwealth be rendered, yet upon condition that the said John Roberts shall be of good behavior for twelve months and one dat from this time ordered." "April 3, 1782 Ordered Captain Wm Love return Hoppe Riddle a cow he took from her in the year 1780 or the sum of five pounds in specie." April 8th 1782 order book 2 page 335 "John Riddle, an orphan of William Riddle of 7 yrs old to age of 21 to James Newell" "James Riddle orphan of WM. Riddle, to James McCorkle. note says page 6 both ordered by the court to teach them reading, writing & Sypher and pay them the sum of 20 lbs. when they are 21. Inventory of estate was also noted in May 27, 1784 Order Bk. B- Page 63 for William Riddle taken on April 24th 1784 and recorded by James McCorkle. Notes state James taken as McCorkles son, so was not given in his list of the estate, that Happy using her pension application and the US Census was born in 1777 and appears from such records the court took the older children and left the 3 younger ones.

Notes sent also state: Moses Riddle was hauled into court again (court records 1757-1763_ for failure to pay taxes, Orange Co., NC because his wife was also "mulatto" he had to pay for both of them. In 1763 Moses lost his land and went to Pittsylvania Co., VA and on 1767 taxlist with William Riddle (after his name "Indian"). According to this letter: "When the British asked me to join them and the Cherokee against the patriots, the enticement was that these people had been unfairly squeezed out of their lands and this was to help them out. Col. James Roberts - a tory and loyal to the British - was recruiting men on the New River in VA and NC in the summers of 1776 to join them and the Cherokee against the land-grabbing patriots." A reference made that Col. James Roberts and his son James Roberts were closely associated with William Riddle (son of Moses) who went to Stokes Co, NC. Note that William's father Moses was listed as a Cherokee in one of the 1740 tax roll. (No confirm on that or if it said Indian or Mulatto, as I've not seen it.) However, there are numerous references to Native American ancestry. Choctaw/Chickasaw Mtd. Rifles Conf lists George, Joseph and a Moses as Choctaw. Something about Treaty of Dancing Rabbit, escaping Trail of Tears and Cherokee blood. One, states Powhattan due to location of others in the area. Speculation. Another refers to William, hung at Riddles Knob in Fischers Valley as a tory in 1781 and Wautaga. (Not sure where that tribe info came from.) Harriett (Happy) Rogers Roberts, Sr via Wanda West states she had a 2nd husband, William Ingram/Ingraham, 1783 Hawkins Co., TN and a note referring to Caney Creek, Washington Co., TN death date "abt. 1785".

From my Sevier line, everyone was in the American Revolution, sons, brothers, fathers. In that line, many sons married daughters, most all seemed to know each other. Names on records seem to have errors even today. Entirely possible Doswell could have been a brother or cousin the the Colonel with last name spelled as Roberts vs. Rogers. It would seem unlikely so many records of Happy to not also see notes of Rogers being a 1st spouse vs. her maiden name. Not impossible though.

In addition, should note the Native American lineage for the family spelled Riddle/Rydle/Ridley. Many did not walk the Trail of Tears and fled, but few refer to where and how. In the above, we can see that many took part in being on the side of Britain, in hopes to keep their lands. It's interesting that Col. Roberts was not hung but William was. The wording in the sentencing was clearly inevitable he would be hung. However, the leader, Col. Roberts gets a slap on the wrist. Interesting.

As well, if Col. Roberts was the father of Harriett (Happy) ROGERS, her eldest children, when her husband, William, was hung would have gone to the "UNCLE" Col. Roberts and not whoever McCorkle, executor of the estate for William? Perhaps I'm wrong on that, but 3 of the eldest children were taken and raised and not by Col. Roberts nor any reference to. Something to think about and probably leads to more puzzling questions or perhaps answers.

Notes above are from about 5 or 6 people, all part of the Riddle tree research during the late 90s-2002. I can make copies/scan and message to whom would like.

Rodgers-3504 and Roberts or Rogers-1 are not ready to be merged because: No one has resolved the last name issue. I'll give below the text of an old RootsWeb message found on Ancestry.com. This is not my family line and I have no further knowledge of the issue, but the LNAB is not currently clear. (On a side note, I don't believe entering a Wikitree of LNAB that includes an "or" is the standard procedure for this, however. Perhaps, as another user suggested, using "Unknown" would be standard.

"From: Mary Hill < [email address removed] gt; Subject: Concerns about Doswell Rogers as father of Happy Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 10:08:41 -0600 To kin of the William and Happy Riddle clan:

Last week there were several postings which led us to believe

that Doswell Rogers was definitely the father of Happy Riddle, wife of William Riddle.

I've thought a lot about whether to say anything to the list. I know there are those who firmly believe that is so. As I have spent many hours researching out the William Riddle family, the Rogers and Roberts connections, the accounts in the Ridlon book <underline>History of the Ancient Ryedales</underline>, p. 354, and many many sources in the counties of southwest Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee and Kentucky and even into Missouri and Texas, I have some real questions concerning Doswell being the father of Happy.

1) Why did not William and Happy ever name a child Doswell, when they had six sons? And even if there was an oldest son named Doswell who died, and has been lost to history, why did none of the six living sons ever name one of their children Doswell? Scottish naming patterns, very much the norm in the Southern states, named the first son after the father of the wife - to honor the family because in marriage the wife's surname is lost [Adenstone and Doswell were both <bold>surnames</bold> orginally in York Co., VA - records are prevalent]. Sometimes they used the surname as a first name; sometimes they at least used the wife's father's first name.=20 In the case of William Riddle, John Riddle of Utah wrote in his personal copy of the Ridlon book in the 1880's that the order of the children's birth in Ridlon is wrong. He said the first son was James, the second John, then came the twins Joseph and Isaac (John of Utah's father).

2) So, who could be the James, father of Happy, if Scottish naming patterns are followed? How about James Roberts who put in an entry for land next door to Doswell Rogers on Rock Castle Creek on 16 Feb 1763?=20 There are land entries for these people on Town Creek at Coles Camp, Rock Castle, Rions Fork, Smiths River - all in present day Patrick County; some in Henry County, VA. This James Roberts was listed in the land entry as (not merch.t). The merchant James Roberts was a patriot and the Moravian Records in North Carolina and Court records of Pittsylvania Co., VA - which included this area at that time - clearly establish his identity. The other two James Roberts men who were in the Pittsylvania area in the 1760's were James Roberts, Gent. and James Roberts, Jr..=20 These men lived further east, and were very politically involved. Lots of mention of them in the actual court records of Pittsylvania Co., VA in the 1760's and early 1770's. The James Roberts in Patrick and Henry Co., VA was a 4th James Roberts. He purchased land in Surry Co., NC in 1775, next to a man named John Roberts, on the Tarrarat River near Mt. Airey.=20 His land was confiscated starting in 1776, (clearly documented in the NC Colonial Records and mentioned in the Moravian Community Records) and his estate finished probate in 1787 after three years of trying to find his negroes for sale. The Draper Manuscripts contain about 10 letters of men who were there at the time which mention Col. James Roberts as a noted Tory leader, who led "Robert's Gang," and had a son Capt. James Roberts, also a Tory. Lyman Draper, in his book "Kings Mountain and Its Heros" stated that the father of William Riddle, who was hung as a Tory, was <underline>Col. James Riddle</underline> of Surry Co., NC. Draper got that idea from one old soldier, Speltz, who in his Rev. War pension said the above. However, there are 10 other letters in the Draper Manuscripts referring to Col. James Roberts of Surry Co.,NC and not another mention of a Col. James Riddle. I think Draper missed the boat on this issue.=20 Even the best of historians pick the wrong record to quote on occasion.=20 Searching the land and court records of Surry Co., NC also does not produce a Col. James Riddle - or any James Riddle - there in the 1770's or 1780's. It is my opinion that Speltz knew that the Col. James _____, Tory of Surry Co., NC, who was closed associated with William Riddle, Tory, of the same area (Surry, Ashe, Wilkes, Watauga counties, NC and along the New River in VA) were<bold> kin.</bold> Was Col. James Roberts the father-in-law of William Riddle instead of his father?

3) But what of Doswell Rogers? Well, he was definitely involved in the Rev. War - at least on a low-key basis:

"Annals of Southwest Virginia 1769-1800" p. 759:

"Montgomery County, VA 5 Mar 1782 - Ordered that JOHN ROBERTS who has been inimical to the American Cause be received as a Citizen of this State and under the protection of the law on his taking the oath of Allegiance and giving security for his good behaviour for twelve months and one day, whereupon the said JOHN ROBERTS acknwledges himself indebted to this Commonwealth in the sum of Twenty pounds in species and DOSWELL ROGERS and John Rice in the sum of ten pounds each to be levied of their respective lands and Chattles and to the Commonwealth rendered. Yet upon condition that the sd. JOHN ROBERTS shall be of the good gehaviour for twelve months and one day from this time."

There were without a doubt Roberts/Rogers ties. It seems very probable that Rogers family members raised several of the orphaned children of William and Happy Riddle. For example, there is a land transaction between Thomas Rogers and William Riddle (son of William Riddle, the Tory) in Lee Co., VA in 1806:

LEE COUNTY VA ABSTRACTS DEED BOOK NO. 2 1805-1812, p.33:

ROGERS TO RIDDLE - Indenture 23 April between Thomas Rogers and William Riddle, both of Lee Co., VA for sum of $333 for 100 acres. Land part of tract of 200 acres granted to Thomas Rogers 8 July 1799. Affix his seal. Tho. Rogers [seal]. April Lee Court 1806. Deed acknowledged and recorded.

Thomas Riddle, one of the youngest two sons of William and Happy, was raised by "the family of his uncle James Roberts," whatever that means. =20

May I suggest that we keep an open forum here about these family relationships. There are a number of possibilities as to the exact relationships involved. I have wondered if Col. James Roberts married a sister of Doswell Rogers, which would explain the close family ties.=20 Clearly there were close kin ties here.

Mary Hill This thread:

Concerns about Doswell Rogers as father of Happy by Mary Hill < [email address removed] gt; Re: Concerns about Doswell Rogers as father of Happy by Daniela Moneta < [email address removed] gt; "

Rodgers-3504 and Roberts or Rogers-1 appear to represent the same person because: Please merge them

If her surname is not known, her LNAB should be Unknown and use Robert and Rogers as her Other Last Names ?

Let's research her before a decision is made.

This profile needs protected. The Roberts or Rogers is due to not having the Knowledge of who her father is. There is speculation. Riddle is her married name.