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Oliver (Sinclair) Sinclair VIIth of Roslin (abt. 1457 - 1520)

Sir Oliver Sinclair VIIth of Roslin formerly Sinclair
Born about in Roslin, Edinburghshire, Scotlandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Husband of — married after 1485 [location unknown]
Husband of — married before 1508 in Scotlandmap
Descendants descendants
Died at about age 63 in Scotlandmap [uncertain]
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Profile last modified | Created 31 Mar 2011
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Scottish Nobility
Oliver (Sinclair) Sinclair VIIth of Roslin was a member of Scottish Nobility.
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Preceded by
William Sinclair
7th of Roslin
1484 - 1520
Succeeded by
William Sinclair

Biography

Notables Project
Oliver (Sinclair) Sinclair VIIth of Roslin is Notable.
Oliver (Sinclair) Sinclair VIIth of Roslin is a member of Clan Sinclair.

Oliver was the eldest child from the marriage of William Sinclair and Margaret Sutherland and a Minor Baron (feudal).[1][2][3][4][5]

According to the charter conveying the feudal barony of Roslin etc., to him, dated 10th December 1476, Oliver was already an adult and a knight. Likewise in charters dated November 1486.[5]

George Sinclair, eldest son and heir-apparent of [this] Sir Oliver Sinclair of Roslin, had a fee charter under The Great Seal, upon his father's resignation, from King James IV: "Georgio Sinclair apparenti de Roslin, terrarum baronie de Roslin et Herbertshire", &c.,' confirmed 5th January 1491, of which Sir Oliver reserved for himself the superiority. George, still a child, however, died before his father.[6]

In the archives is an 18th century transcript of a charter of donation by William, Earl of Caithness, along with [this] Oliver Sinclair, Knt., Alexander Sinclair, George Sinclair, Robert Sinclair, Arthur Sinclair, his brothers, and Elenora Sinclair, Countess of Atholl, Elizabeth Sinclair, Lady of Poustoun, Margaret Sinclair, Lady of Bermutt [?Boswell], Katherine Sinclair, Sufrana Sinclair, Marie Sinclair, Mariota Sinclair, his sisters, all legitimate sons and daughters of deceased William, Earl of Orkney and Caithness and Lord Sinclair, of the lands of Scumbrough and pertinents, to their brother Sir David Sinclair Knt., dated 3rd December 1498.[7] (Very poor transcription of the ancient script.)

It is clear that all the baronies and other properties invested (in fee) in Sir Oliver's son George had reverted to Oliver, his father, by April 1510. George appears to be dead (v.p.) as his wife has remarried Andrew Ker, and Sir Oliver, George's father, had a reversion of everything settled upon George back to himself with the consent of his son William, brother and heir of the said George; erected into a new free barony of Herbertshire.[8]

He married firstly, Margaret Borthwick.[9][10][11] They had issue:

  1. George, the heir-apparent[1][9][10]
  2. William, eventual heir[12]
  3. Henry,[13][10][14]
  4. Oliver[12][9][10]
  5. John[12][9][10]
  6. James, of Stevenston,[9] d. at the Battle of Pinkie Clough[15]
  7. Robert[16]
  8. Alexander[17][18]
  9. Margaret (see her biography)

He married secondly, Isabel Livingston/[11] They had issue:

  1. Arthur[1][15]

Heis said to have had at least two natural children:

  1. James[15]
  2. Matthew[15]

Research Notes

Both Anderson and Douglas only give him Margaret Borthwick for a wife, with five sons.[9][5] However it is self-evident that they had at least nine children. It is also clear that both Nisbet (1722) and Douglas (1774) have the numbering of what children they show, wrong. Nisbet, for instance, fails to mention the son and heir-apparent, George (possibly because he died v.p.) Douglas gives William, the eventual son and heir as the son of George, despite charter evidence showing them brothers. As William is the second son (not Henry) this throws all the numberings out.

James 'of Stevenstoun' is clearly given by Douglas as the son of Sir Oliver and Margaret Borthwick. In addition he is given in a charter of those lands as "brother-german of Henry Sinclair".

There is a charter of Isobel Levinstoun, [second wife] relict of Oliver Sinclair, Lady of Roslyn, to Master Henry Sinclair, her son, of the £10 lands in Over Libertoun, and one mark land called Soytor land, in all 16 marks of land dated 5th December 1537. Her seal is appended: three mullets, impaling a cross indented S Issabel Levingstoun.[16] Henry is presumably her stepson.

Sources

  1. 1.0 1.1 1.2 MacGregor, Gordon, The Red Book of Scotland, Scotland, private, 2022, Ed. 3, Vol. VIII, p 1045
  2. William's first wife didn't die until 1451, and this second marriage is said to have taken place before 15 November 1456. (How long before is unclear.)
  3. Cokayne, George Edward, The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, London: St. Catherine Press, 1912, Ed. 2 Vol II, Archive,org, p. 478
  4. Paul, James Balfour. The Scots Peerage : founded on Wood's ed. of Sir Robert Douglas's Peerage of Scotland; containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that kingdom, Edinburgh: David Douglas, 1906, Vol. III, Archive.org, p. 334
  5. 5.0 5.1 5.2 Douglas, Robert, The Baronage of Scotland, Containing an Historical and Genealogical Account of the Gentry of that Kingdom. Collected from the Public Records and Chartularies of this Country, the Records and Private Writings of Families and the Works of Our Best Historians, Edinburgh: 1798, Google Books, p. 247
  6. Douglas, Bt., Sir Robert, The Baronage of Scotland, Edinburgh, 1774, p.247.
  7. National Records of Scotland GD50/186/4/1/1.
  8. The Great Seal of Scotland, no.3444, confirmed 11th April 1510.
  9. 9.0 9.1 9.2 9.3 9.4 9.5 Anderson, William, The Scottish Nation; or The surnames, families, literature, honours, and biographical history of the people of Scotland, Edinburgh: A. Fullerton & Co., 1867, Vol. III, Archive.org, p. 460
  10. 10.0 10.1 10.2 10.3 10.4 Nisbet, Alexander, System of Heraldry, Speculative and Practical, Edinburgh: William Blackwood, 1816, Vol. II, Archive.org, Appendix: p. 165
  11. 11.0 11.1 Hay, Father Richard Augustin, Genealogie of the Sainteclaires of Rosslyn, Edinburgh: Thomas G Stevenson,1835, Archive.org, p. 108; N.B. refers to Margaret as Elizabeth
  12. 12.0 12.1 12.2 MacGregor, Gordon, The Red Book of Scotland, Scotland, private, 2022, Ed. 3, Vol. VIII, p 1046
  13. The Great Seal of Scotland nos:3767 & 3802; and 527 dated 17 Dec 1527.
  14. Paul, James Balfour. The Scots Peerage : founded on Wood's ed. of Sir Robert Douglas's Peerage of Scotland, Edinburgh: David Douglas, 1906, Vol. III, Archive.org, p. 226
  15. 15.0 15.1 15.2 15.3 MacGregor, Gordon, The Red Book of Scotland, Scotland, private, 2022, Ed. 3, Vol. VIII, p 1049
  16. 16.0 16.1 National Records of Scotland GD122/1/319.
  17. MacGregor, Gordon, The Red Book of Scotland, Scotland, private, 2022, Ed. 3, Vol. VIII, p 1047.
  18. Anderson, Rev. John, editor, Calendar of the Laing Charters 854 - 1837, Edinburgh, 1899, number 564, p.147.
  • Cokayne, George Edward, The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, London: William Pollard & Co, 1945, Ed. 2 Vol X , p.96n


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Comments: 10

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Unsure why this so-called "Red Book of Scotland" is suddenly being cited. There are better sources. Please see Sir Oliver's childrens' pages themselves.

I have never understood why people list the children in the biography section when the children all have pages of their own and are shown above in the main section. It is simply duplication.

I must also protest at the silly note placed next to Henry Sinclair. ALL the ancient records, including Douglas, have him listed as second child of the known parents, Sir Oliver and Margaret Borthwick. Whoever guessed at the 1508 year for his birth got it wrong.

posted by Gregory Lauder-Frost
edited by Gregory Lauder-Frost
In any good biography children should always be listed. There is nothing wrong with using the Red Book of Scotland, which reflects recent research, though, like all sources - including primary sources - it is not infallible. It is on the Scotland Project's official list of reliable sources. Comments on a profile are not, though, the right place for discussion of general issues like these which are not specific to the profile.
posted by Michael Cayley
edited by Michael Cayley
The children are listed, under the parents. They don't need to be relisted cluttering things up.
posted by Gregory Lauder-Frost
I am afraid we beg to differ. What you say departs from what is regarded by Projects as good practice: it is normal for pre-1700 Projects to look for children to be listed in the bio, with inline sourcing. If you wish to debate further, please ask a question in G2G. This is not an issue specific to this profile.
posted by Michael Cayley
edited by Michael Cayley
Oliver Sinclair, here treated, was married three times: First, to Christian Haldane; [Stirling Protocol Book] secondly, to Elizabeth, daughter of William, third Lord Borthwick; and thirdly, to Isabella Livingstone.

References:

Saint-Clair, Roland William. The Saint-Clairs of the Isles: being a history of the sea-kings of Orkney and their Scottish successors of the surname of Sinclair. (Salt Lake City, Utah: Genealogical Society of Utah, 1978), Pages 286 to 296.

Simply wrong. These 19th century genealogical histories should always be checked against original sources. Most of the landed gentry original sources for this period are available. Not always in great numbers but they are there. The Sir Oliver Sinclair of Pitcairns, brother of 'your' Margaret, was a son of George Sinclair who in turn was the eldest son and heir-apparent of Sir Oliver of Roslin. George died d.v.p.

William, (now 2nd) Lord Borthwick did not have a daughter, Elizabeth, but Agnes, Catherine and Margaret.

posted by Gregory Lauder-Frost
edited by Gregory Lauder-Frost
What is the validity of the following source: Colonial Families of the USA, 1607-1775, pages 455-456 (original is 7 volumes by editors Mackenzie, George Norbury and Nelson Osgood Rhoades)?

The reason I ask is because Sir Oliver Sinclair of Roslin is shown, on the bottom of page 455, to have married three times. His third wife is shown to be Isabella of Livingstone and (as shown on page 456), they had nine children. The 9th child is listed as Margaret, m. Sir Thomas Kirkpatrick.

Any comments will be greatly appreciated.

Honestly, I would never cite that source for anything outside of the US families it treats, and then only after thoroughly checking for other records to corroborate. On this profile, you'd be better going with a Scottish source, such as Sir James Balfour Paul's Scots Peerage, which isn't flawless, but does often provide sources. This profile's father can be found here: Vol. II, p. 332.
posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
Further on items found in Scots Peerage for Sir Oliver:
This last entry cites "Genealogie of the Saintclaires of Rosslyn," by Father Richard Hay, Edinburgh, 1835, p. 110. This can be found here:

Archive.org and specifically page 110. These don't provide a lot of family information, but you may find more sources going this route.

posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
Really do wish people would not lift stuff from ancestry.com without first check the source materials.
posted by Gregory Lauder-Frost

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