Mary (Smith) Hall
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Mary (Smith) Hall (bef. 1769 - 1827)

Mary Hall formerly Smith
Born before in West Lilburn, Northumberland, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Sister of
Wife of — married 17 Nov 1791 in Lowick, Northumberland, Englandmap
Descendants descendants
Died after age 58 in Pitt Town, New South Wales, Australiamap
Profile last modified | Created 10 May 2013
This page has been accessed 1,221 times.

Contents

Biography

Hall, Mary (1769–1827) Mary Hall was probably born in 1769. She was baptised in Eglingham on 29 April. 1770. Her father is recorded as William Smith of West Lilburn. Her sister Margaret Smith is baptized in St Mary's Wooler (a sizeable town closely adjacent to the small settlement of Lilburn) in 1771. Margaret's birth was in 1770 and her father is recorded as William Smith and her mother as Isabella. This couple was married in Lowick Northumberland in 1748. The mother recorded as Isabel Tinning. The only previous recorded fact about Mary's origins are that she came from Lilburn and she had a sister named Margaret. However, the naming patterns of her children support her father being William Smith. Mary married George Hall at Lowick Anglican Church on 17 Nov 1791 by license. She was resident in Lowick Parish at the time, and living at Barmoor., perhaps with some of her Smith relatives. They both signed their names after the ceremony, Mary signed as Mary Hall. They both moved to London were they lived until they emigrated to Australia on the Coromandel in 1802. Their son George Smith, Elizabeth, William and John were born in London before their departure. The other children were born in New South Wales. Mary Hall died on 29 June 1827 in Pitt town, New South Wales.

(Above information submitted by Alison Parkes.)

Research Notes

Marriage record written by the Minister who performed the marriage.....

The original news paper article of which a transcription is produced below merely stated "Mrs Hall" (only widows at that time were referred to by their christian name.)

Death – Lately at Pitt-town, Mrs. [Mary Ann] Hall, wife of Mr. George Hall, of that district, in her 58th year. The interment took place on Monday, the 2nd of July, and the funeral was attended by most of the respectable part of the community from some distance within those districts. Mrs. Hall and family arrived in the Coromandel, in 1802, in company with several other free settlers, who, for the most part, became residents of the Hawkesbury. She was mother of a numerous family, whom she reared to habits of industry, in her own example. She is described by a very intimate friend as the careful North of England farmer's wife. The old gentleman, as may be expected, endures exceeding grief; and the whole family may be truly said to be the house of mourning.

Came Free "Coromandel" 1802.
Buried Ebenezer Cemetery Section 1 Row 5 Plot 1, age 58.

"Mary Smith is the daughter of William Smith. Her sister Margaret (to whom the child George Smith Hall was sent from London to recover from illness,) is recorded as follows, Margaret Smith, born October 1770, baptized 27 January 1771 at Wooler, Northumberland, Parkes.)"


Elliott-12243 is a possibility to being the Mother of Mary Smith as per Over-Halling the Colony Tribal Page. Christening 13 Sep 1748 Bamburgh, Northumberland, England. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N5RD-P9Q

There are numerous William Smiths marrying Elizabeths as well as Isobels and there seems to be a lack of proof for each, so we do not really know who Mary Smith's mother is. (Submitted by Joan Gray)

Sources


https://web.archive.org/web/20160602030920/http://www.cursley.org.uk/id150.html

  • Baptism: "FreeReg UK Parish Register database"
    Northumberland; Eglingham; St Maurice; Other Transcript; File line number: 2140
    FreeReg Transcription (accessed 15 November 2023)
    Mary Smith baptism on 29 Apr 1770, daughter of William Smith, in Eglingham, Northumberland, England. Transcription Notes: Place of abode, W. Lilburn.( West Lilburn) No mother is mentioned.
  • Baptism: "England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"
    Original data: England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975. Salt Lake City, Utah: FamilySearch, 2013; FHL Film Number: 1068608
    Ancestry au Record 9841 #104777306 (accessed 15 November 2023)
    Mary Smith baptism on 29 Apr 1770, daughter of William Smith, in Eglingham, Northumberland, England.
  • Marriage: "FreeReg UK Parish Register database"
    Northumberland; Lowick; St John the Baptist; Bishop's Transcript; File line number: 173
    FreeReg Transcription (accessed 15 November 2023)
    Mary Smith marriage to George Hall on 17 Nov 1791 in Lowick, Northumberland, England. Bishops Transcript.
  • Marriage: "FreeReg UK Parish Register database"
    Northumberland; Lowick; St John the Baptist; Other Transcript; File line number: 213
    FreeReg Transcription (accessed 15 November 2023)
    Mary Smith marriage to George Hall on 17 Nov 1791 in Lowick, Northumberland, England. Lowick Anglican Chapel Transcript.

Transcription Notes: Brides Parish is Lowick and her abode is Barmoor.


https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N5RD-P93

Acknowledgments

Thank you to Steve Austen for creating WikiTree profile Smith-44374 through the import of Austen-Lamb Family Tree_2013-05-09.ged on May 9, 2013. Click to the Changes page for the details of edits by Steve and others Alison Parkes for the Biographical outline.





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DNA Connections
It may be possible to confirm family relationships with Mary by comparing test results with other carriers of her mitochondrial DNA. However, there are no known mtDNA test-takers in her direct maternal line. It is likely that these autosomal DNA test-takers will share some percentage of DNA with Mary:

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Comments: 29

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Seems very strange to me that Isabell Tinning was married for over 20 years prior to having these 2 girls. Would not happen in real life in that time. You have put me right off family tree research. Go for it but make sure you put your references in. "your comment - Speculation by members of the Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter day Saints, in Salt Lake City does not constitute proof." they put in their references which they get from the official records. If you did your home work you would know this.
posted by Joan (Bray) Gray
An Isabel Smith is buried in St Maurice, Eglingham and her son who officiates is Adam Smith resident of Titlington. However on closer examination this Isobel is 17 years old.
posted by Alison Parkes
edited by Alison Parkes
Please do not give up family research because of our contre temps. It would be very sad and not my intention. Mary Smith Hall is my 4th great grandmother and I was carted around the graveyards of the Hawkesbury region from the age of 10. So yes this line matters to me. I am certain that William and Isabel had other children, but assuming they are agricultural workers, or trades people like the George Hall ancestors of Mary's husband they probably moved around in their earlier married years. Their other children are yet to be found.
posted by Alison Parkes
edited by Alison Parkes
Well it would seem that we are both right and both wrong. The FreeReg citation shows that Mary Smith who was baptized on 29 April 1770 was of West Lilburn. Only her fathers name is mentioned. It was William Smith of West Lilburn.
posted by Alison Parkes
The only certain facts that are known about Mary's origins in Northumberland are,

1. That she came from Lilburn. 2.That she had a sister named Margaret who lived in Lilburn. 3. That her father according to the naming patterns of her children was possibly named William. 4. That her mother possibly had the name of Elizabeth or some North country version of Elizabeth such as Isabel.

.

posted by Alison Parkes
edited by Alison Parkes
As I have indicated before there is zero evidence in the historical records for her nomenclature being Mary Ann. She is neither married or buried as Mary Ann. Her name was Mary.
posted by Alison Parkes
edited by Alison Parkes
Speculation by members of the Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter day Saints, in Salt Lake City does not constitute proof. Their previous attribution of Anne Avenell and William Smith of Northamptonshire as parents of Mary Smith of Northumberland proves my point.

In the 1980s, Kenneth John Hall M C, great, great. great grandson of George Hall and Mary Smith and noted local historian went to London and Northumberland to further research his forebears. He was able at that time, to view and record information from the original registers. (Far more accurate than mistake ridden and sloppy transcriptions that are now outsourced to the Phillipines). He clearly states that the parents of Mary Smith were Married at Lowick by the Reverend George Goodwill. There are two microfiche transcriptions of this marriage, the first gives the date of the marriage between William Smith and Isobel Tinning as 18 Dec 1748. This ancestry of Mary Smith is supported by the baptism of her known sister Margaret Smith of Lilburn at closely adjacent Wooler, Margaret is born 16 Oct 1770 and baptised 27 Jan 1771, the parents recorded as William and Isabella Smith. Eglingham, was a small village, with its only place of worship, the Church of Maurice being of very modest size in the 1770s and thus most unlikely even with the commonness of the name Mary Smith to of had another suddenly sprouted and ready to marry Thomas Scott in 1788. Also Google satellite and terrain maps show that it would have been virtually inaccessible in Springtime because of the difficulties in crossing the following rivers and watercourses which would have obstructed the passage of travellers from Lilburn.; Lilburn Bank, Randy Burn, the River Till, the River Breamish, Roddam Burn and possible the River Aln. As your putative tree for Ann Elliott shows , she was not born in Eglingham and thus there would have been no reason to make a perilous journey from Lilburn to the inaccessible Eglingham. It is an unfortunate fact that many if not most of the Church Registers of Northumberland have not survived or are in a parlous or unreadable state. The baptism of Mary Smith who married my ancestor George Hall has not survived ,fortunately that of her known and documented sister Margaret Smith of Lilburn has.

posted by Alison Parkes
Thomas Scott,

Marriage date, 14 May 1788, Place. Eglingham. (Northumberland, England) Spouse. Mary Smith. FHL Film Number. 1068608.

posted by Alison Parkes
Sorry, not the same Mary Smith. Our Mary Smith married in November 1791. Ancestry.com. England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2014.

Name: George Hall Gender: Male Marriage Date: 17 Nov 1791 Marriage Place: Lowick, Northumberland, England Spouse: Mary Smith FHL Film Number: 94976

posted by Joan (Bray) Gray
edited by Joan (Bray) Gray
You have a go at me for quoting FHL Film and you do the same.
posted by Joan (Bray) Gray
Unfortunately Mary Smith who is baptised on 29 Apr 1770 in the Anglican Church at Eglingham, ( I have discovered that there was no Presbyterian Church in Eglingham at that time) can not have married George Hall as she married Thomas Scott in Eglingham, in 1788.
posted by Alison Parkes
Please send me the proof as I need to see it before changing, again.
posted by Joan (Bray) Gray
I would be very interested to read your genealogical justification for the removal of William Smith as father of Mary Smith.
posted by Alison Parkes
Due to you questioning every change I make to this entry I took him down until I have actual proof. JG
posted by Joan (Bray) Gray
Mary Smith was Christened in the Presbyterian church at Eglingham on 29 Apr 1770, her father is recorded as William Smith. Her birth would be in 1769 as her sister Margaret is BORN on 16 Oct 1770 and Christened over 3 months later in the closer Presbyterian meeting house or church at Wooler. Eglingham is about 10 miles from the Smith home at Lilburn, but it may have been the closest Presbyterian church at that date and such distances were not seen as great for country people at that time.
posted by Alison Parkes
https://reubennamoihall.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=reubennamoihall&view=0&pid=8&ver=47249 This information is from Over-Halling the Colony on their Tribal Pages. States the Mother of Mary Smith is Elizabeth Elliot.
posted by Joan (Bray) Gray
That's a very satisfying fit, in terms of dates, proximity to Lilburn , the full 'Elizabeth' nomenclature, and the Anglican marriage, I'm assuming it's an Anglican marriage is after Lord Hardwicke edict. I still think the christening at Wooler of Margaret is our Smith couple , but whether the name Isabella was Elizabeth's pet name we will never know, the non conformist christening, the acute proximity to Lilburn and the father being William are weighted in its favour.

Cheers Alison.

posted by Alison Parkes
On page 25 of ' Over-Halling the Colony ', in the chapter, " The Hall Clan by Kenneth John Hall MC we find the following... "so when the second child George Smith Hall, was noticeable ailing he was fortunate to be sent, by his careful parents, to his Aunt and his mother's sister, Margaret Smith at Lilburn, in the healthy north country." Lilburn is less than 2 miles from Wooler where Margaret Smith the daughter of William Smith and Isabella Tinning was baptised in 1771. William and Isabella become residents of Lowick and make a late Anglican marriage at Lowick Anglican Church in 1779.
posted by Alison Parkes
edited by Alison Parkes
Just Saying. Until yesterday 25th January 2023 I had never set eyes on the book Over-Halling the Colony.
posted by Joan (Bray) Gray
Mary Smith is the daughter of William Smith and Isabella Tinning. Although there is no Baptismal records for Mary. Her sister Margaret (to whom the child George Smith Hall is sent from London to recover from illness,) is recorded as follows, Magaret Smith, born October 1770, baptised 27 January 1771 at Wooler, Northumberland, Parents are William and Isabella Smith. William Smith married Isabel Tinning on the 18th December 1779 at Lowick Anglican Church . This late marriage in the Church of England could be to conform to Lord Hardwicke's Marriage Act of 1754. However William became a Church Warden at Lowick Church, so he may have rejected his Presbyterian past and embraced Anglicanism. He was buried at Lowick in the Anglican graveyard on 13th August 1826.

Isabella was a well known variant of the name Elizabeth.

posted by Alison Parkes
These dates do not match with George Hall. His Mother's Sister is younger than him and yet this states he was sent to her to recover from an illness as a child.
posted by Joan (Bray) Gray
It was George SMITH Hall (born 1796) son of George Hall who was sent from London to his Aunt Margaret Smith (born 1770 )in Northumberland to recover from a serious illness. Please see the original research as documented in the book 'Over-Halling the Colony: George Hall, Pioneer. Edited by Russell McKenzie Warner. 1989. Australian Documents Library Sydney. I will supply the exact page reference at a later date.
posted by Alison Parkes
edited by Alison Parkes
[Comment Deleted]
posted by Joan (Bray) Gray
deleted by Joan (Bray) Gray
The reference is in The Hall Clan by Kenneth John Hall, in Over-Halling the Colony, I will find it and post it as soon as time allows. Cheers.
posted by Alison Parkes
Thanks Alison but just posting from a book with no link to actual proof is not proof. I would like to know the true proof like in Government Records. Births, Deaths Marriages etc. Cheers Joan
posted by Joan (Bray) Gray
Hi Joan, apart from the copy of my comment re Mary's parents, all of the information that you and your fellow managers of this profile of Mary Smith have put in her biography comes verbatim from the book ' Over-Halling the Colony: George Hall Pioneer' .I am surprised that their is no acknowledgement of source. I am also surprised that you would chide me for referencing the same book. Books such as 'Over-Halling the Colony: George Hall Pioneer.', were actual diverse and educated descendants of ancestors gather together and pool all of their original sources such as family letters, photos, bible entries, gravestone epitaphs, newspaper and archival reports, title deeds etc and also order copies of original birth, death and marriage certificates, or travel to Northumberland to view the original documents should always trump internet sites from geographically ignorant Americans in Saltlake City and mis-transcribed microfiche reports on commercial genealogy sites.

Cheers Alison.

posted by Alison Parkes
edited by Alison Parkes
Hi Joan,

I would not expect a reference in that article as it is about Lowick Northhamptonshire NOT Lowick Northumberland. George Hall And Mary Smith come from Northumberland . I can find no supporting evidence for her being called 'Mary Ann' or for her being born in Lowick. There is a Mary Smith who is buried in Lowick in about 1744, but no other Mary Smith on Ancestry.com or on findmypast. There is evidence however that she came from Lilburn, please see Margaret Smith. Her gravestone records her as plain 'Mary' Hall. In the marriage recorded at Lowick on 17 November 1791 she signs as plain 'Mary Hall '. Cheers Alison

posted by Alison Parkes
edited by Alison Parkes
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GN18-G51

Both references are connections to the Hall family.

posted by Joan (Bray) Gray
edited by Joan (Bray) Gray
Lilburn, is a mere 10miles from Lowick, Northumberland, a morning stroll for healthy country folk in the 1700s.
posted by Alison Parkes

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