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Philippe (Thornbury) Guilford (abt. 1431 - abt. 1485)

Lady Philippe Guilford formerly Thornbury aka Pympe, Tyrrell
Born about in Faversham, Kent, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Sister of [half]
Wife of — married 1447 (to 8 Nov 1454) in Kent, Englandmap
Wife of — married about 1460 in Englandmap
Wife of — married 1473 in Englandmap
Descendants descendants
Died about at about age 54 in Englandmap
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Profile last modified | Created 18 Mar 2015
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Biography

"Lady Tyrell, who was born Philippe Thornbury, was the daughter of John Thornbury of Faversham and Anne Thorlegh." [1][2][3][4]

"Philippe Thornbury's first husband, John Pympe, left no will in 1454, [5]but her second husband, Sir William Tyrell of Beeches, Rawreth, co. Essex, whose second wife she was, made his on March 16, 1470/1, and it was written in 'myn owne hande.' In his will he mentions his father-in-law and my fader John Thorneburye.[1]... After her third marriage, to Sir John Guildford, Philippe arranged a marriage between her daughter, Anne Pympe, and Sir John's son and heir, Richard Guildford."[6] [7]

Philippe was the mother of three children from her first marriage: Reynold Pympe, Anne Pympe, and John Pympe. [5]

Philippe with her second husband William Tyrrell, had four children, Jasper, Elizabeth, Jane and Anne.[1]

William Tyrrell, mentioned his father-in-law John Thornebrough, twice and mother-in-law Anne, once, in his will of 1470/1: "to have in remembrance the sowlls of me, Anne and Dame Phelipp' my wyffes, the soule of my fader John Tyrell, Knyght, Alice and Kateryn his wyffes, and the soules of my Broder Thomas Tyrell, Knyght, Anne his wife, and the soules of John Thornebrough and Anne;"[1]

Philippe's father, John Thornbury of Faversham wrote his will 10 April 1472/3, and it was proved 16 February 1473/4. John Thornbury referred to his daughter as "Dame Philip". He made grandson John Pympe his main heir and one of the executors of his will. John Thornbury also mentions grandchildren: Reynold Pympe, Anne Pympe, Jane Tyrrell, his brothers William Thornbury, Vicar, and Richard Thornbury.[6]

(1481) Philippe and her third husband Sir John Guilford were sued by son John Pympe, they apparently were reluctant to return the inheritance of the Pympe lands to him.[7]

De Banco. Mich.20. Ed.4.m.630.
Kent--JOHN PYMPE, Armiger, sued John Gyfford, kt., and Philippa, his wife, and three others named, for the manors of Nettilheth and Pympe, and lands in Brenche, Horsmonden, Lamberhest, Eldyng, West Mallyng, East Mallyng and other places. Verdict for the plaintiff.

Philippe was Sir John Guilford's second wife, he was her third husband. Sir John Guilford married his third wife after 1486.

Research Notes

There was an error in the research of the Pympe family, the St. Leger family surname was given to Philippe Thornbury on a pedigree. This surname was added because the researcher was of 'the opinion' she was a St. Leger. There is ample proof that John Pympe was married to Philippe Thornbury, and that there wasn't a Philippe St. Leger.[5]

the Archaeologia cantiana by Kent Archaeological Society. p. 166, 167, is the pedigree that had been formerly used for the Pympe family tree, but it isn’t consistent with the contemporary sources and therefore unreliable. A quote from MacMichael, N.H. of "The Descent of the Manor of Evegate in Smeeth---" "the account of Pympe family and their alliances by Mr. W. E. Ball (Ball is ungenerous in the extreme with his references--a large number of his statements are clearly wrong and conjectural." [5]

Evidence to support Philippa not being a daughter of John St Leger.

  1. In the Will of John St. Leger of 12 December 1441, the only children mentioned are: Thomas, Ralph, Richard, James, Bartholomew, Florence, Margaret and Alice. John St. Leger's will can be found at Kent Archaeological Society Website. [8]
  2. Douglas Richardson, on 26 January 2014, replied to a query about the connection between the Pympe and St. Leger families. The connection is through the Cheyne family. Margery Cheyne, the daughter of Richard Cheyne (Cheyney) and Margaret Cralle, first husband was James Donet (died 1409), their daughter Margery Donet married John St. Leger (died 1441). Isabel Cheyne, the daughter of Richard Cheyne (Cheyney) and Margaret Cralle, married John Pympe as his first wife. [9]
  3. Douglas Richardson, on the same post of 26 January 2014, listed the children of John St. Leger and Margery Donet as: Ralph, Thomas, Richard, James, Bartholomew, Katherine, Florence, Margaret and Alice.[9][10]
  4. In "The Archaeologia cantiana, p.169 & 175" the author was of the opinion Philippa was a St. Leger, but without any sources. The pedigree that has been formerly used for the Pympe/Whetell family tree, isn’t consistent with the contemporary sources and therefore unreliable. [11] A quote from MacMichael, N.H. of "The Descent of the Manor of Evegate in Smeeth---" "the account of Pympe family and their alliances by Mr. W. E. Ball (Ball is ungenerous in the extreme with his references--a large number of his statements are clearly wrong and conjectural."[5]
  5. Berkshire Visitation verifies that Isabel Cheyne married John Pympe.[12]
  6. Finally, there are wills, pedigrees, plea roll entries that establishes that the second wife of John Pympe was Philippa Thornbury, not Philippa St. Leger. Philippe Thornbury was married three times, her first husband was John Pympe (1417-1454). Her second husband was William Tyrell (died after 16 March 1471). In his will he mentions his father-in-law twice, and his step-daughter Anne Pympe. [3]

Philippe's third husband was John Guildford (will written 20 March 1491/2). Philippe's son John Pympe sued his mother and step-father for the manors inherited from the Pympe family. [7] [1]


Sources

  1. 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 The National Archives Prob 11/5/167, Oxford Shakespeare, The Will of Sir William Tyrrell http://www.oxford-shakespeare.com/Probate/PROB_11-5-167.pdf Note: the bio that accompanies the will has several mistakes in it.
  2. Davis, Walter Goodwin. "The Ancestry of Mary Isaac, C. 1549-1613: Wife of Thomas Appleton of Little Waldingfield, Co. Suffolk and Mother of Samuel Appleton of Ipswich, Massachusetts. Page 79. Retrieved from [Google Books] on 6 March 2019.
  3. 3.0 3.1 The visitations of Essex by Hawley, 1552; Hervey, 1558; Cooke, 1570; Raven, 1612; and Owen and Lilly, 1634 : to which are added miscellaneous Essex pedigrees from various Harleian manuscripts, and an appendix containing Berry's Essex pedigrees v.13 Author Metcalfe, Walter C. (Walter Charles) '1558, p.111' http://www.archive.org/stream/visitationsofess13metc#page/110/mode/2up
  4. A P Baggs, J Freeman, C Smith, J H Stevenson and E Williamson. "Collingbourne Kingston," in A History of the County of Wiltshire: Volume 16, Kinwardstone Hundred, ed. D A Crowley (London: Victoria County History, 1999), 126-139. British History Online, accessed May 18, 2019, http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/wilts/vol16/pp126-139.
  5. 5.0 5.1 5.2 5.3 5.4 MacMichael, N.H., The Descent of the Manor of Evegate in Smeeth With Some Account of its Lords, Archaelologia Cantiana, Kent Archaeological Society, p.40-44, PYMPE
  6. 6.0 6.1 Davis, Walter Goodwin. "The Ancestry of Mary Isaac, C. 1549-1613: Wife of Thomas Appleton of Little Waldingfield, Co. Suffolk and Mother of Samuel Appleton of Ipswich, Massachusetts. Page 80. Retrieved from [Google Books] on 6 March 2019.
  7. 7.0 7.1 7.2 Wrottesley, George, 1827, 1909, Pedigrees from the plea rolls: collected from the pleadings in the various courts of law, A.D. 1200 to 1500, from the original rolls in the Public Record Office, Great Britain. Public Record Office 1905?, p.456 https://archive.org/details/pedigreesfromple00wrotrich/page/456
  8. Kent Archaeological Society,Medieval & Tudor Kent Wills at Lambeth – Book 23 Page 248. Transcript accessed at:Will of John Seyntleger dated 1441
  9. 9.0 9.1 Richardson, Douglas. “Philippa Thornbury - Google Groups.” Accessed March 27, 2019. soc.gen.med
  10. Robertson, Herbert, Stemmata Robertson et Durdin. Being tables comprising the known ancestors of the children of Herbert Robertson and his wife Helen Alexandrina Melian n Durdin .National Library of Scotland, p. 68-71, ST. LEGER PEDIGREE https://archive.org/stream/stemmatarobertso00robe#page/68/mode/2up
  11. Kent Archaeological Society, the Archaeologia Cantiana, https://archive.org/details/archaeologiacant28kent/page/174
  12. Rylands, W. Harry (William Harry), 1847-1922,Benolt, Thomas, d. 1534,Harvey, William, d. 1567,Chitting, Henry, d. 1638,Philipot, John, 1589?-1645,Camden, William, 1551-1623,Ashmole, Elias, 1617-1692,Bysshe, Edward, Sir, 1615?-1679,College of Arms (Great Britain), The four visitations of Berkshire made and taken by Thomas Benolte, Clarenceux anno 1532; p.102-105, https://www.archive.org/stream/fourvisitations00britgoog#page/n122/mode/2up




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Comments: 16

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I've taken care of the changes needed.
posted by Pam Kreutzer
I think Forlegh 1 ('unknown Forlegh)' is the correct mother for Phillipe Thornbury. The only daughter of John Halsham called Anne didn't marry John Thornbury. The Halsham pedigree shows that Anne the wife of John Thornbury was actually the widow of Richard Halsham, thus John Halsham's daughter-in-law, not his daughter. Anne Forlegh was the daughter of John Thorlegh of West Grinstead. Sir Hugh Halsham (Richard's brother) granted Collingbourne manor to Anne (his sister-in-law) and her new husband John Thornbury. As I'm not pre-1500 certified I can't change this profile. Thanks.
posted by Liz Bradshaw
Hi Darlene and Marie, I am project protecting this profile for the England Project, as Philippa is contentious. I'll add the England Project account. Happy to discuss any aspects of this profile or the merge. Thanks
posted by Gillian Thomas
St Leger-69 and Thornbury-48 appear to represent the same person because: I'd like to propose that these two profiles be merged. There are no primary sources located to support the existence of Philippa St Leger. Secondary and tertiary sources of varying reliability relevant to John Pympe variously refer to either Philippa St Leger or Philippa Thornbury, or sometimes a combination of the two eg https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/170930870/philippa-thornbury-de_pympe. Merge would be into LNAB Thornbury, which is well sourced. See detailed bio on Thornbury-119 which is also being merged into Thornbury-48. Thank you for reviewing.
posted by Gillian Thomas
Hi Kathy and EP members, I'm removing Philippa from her parents after a thorough review of the evidence. There are no primary sources confirming that John St Leger had a daughter Philippa.
posted by Gillian Thomas
Thornbury-119 and Thornbury-48 appear to represent the same person because: These are definite duplicates. It states right on Thornbury-119 that she married 3 times: "Philippe Thornbury's first husband, John Pympe, left no will, [4]but her second husband, Sir William Tyrell of Beeches, Rawreth, co. Essex, whose second wife she was, made his on March 16, 1470/1, and it was written in 'myn owne hande.' In his will he mentions his father-in-law and my fader John Thorneburye.[1]... After her third marriage, to Sir John Guildford, Philippe arranged a marriage between her daughter, Anne Pympe, and Sir John's son and heir, Richard Guildford."
Hi Kathy, I'm reinstating Philippa as wife of John Pympe and mother of Anne Pympe as more consultation is needed. Thanks
posted by Gillian Thomas
Hi Kathy, same message as the one I just added to Reginald Pympe-28. I'm detaching this profile as spouse of Pympe-13 and mother of Pympe-19 for the moment. Also England should take on project management if that's fine with you. Do you by any chance have any other sources relevant to Phillipa St Leger. Thanks
posted by Gillian Thomas
Thornbury-71 and Thornbury-48 appear to represent the same person because: They have the same father, information from different sites, connect them to be the same person.
posted by Pam Kreutzer
Hi, I have a Question?? on Thornbury-119, Philippe Thornbury, the bio there says that this Philippe and that Philippe were the same person who married John Pympe. That the surname should be Thornbury instead of St. Leger. I haven't researched it, so I don't know, but thought I'd draw it to your attention.
posted by Pam Kreutzer

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Categories: Estimated Birth Date | England Managed Profiles, Pre-1500 PPP