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Robert Townsend (bef. 1592)

Robert Townsend
Born before in Bracon Ash, Norfolk, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Son of and
Brother of
Husband of — married 20 Feb 1615 in Norwich Castle, Norfolk, Englandmap
[children unknown]
Died [date unknown] in Bracon Ash, Norfolk, Englandmap
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Profile last modified | Created 30 Apr 2016
This page has been accessed 559 times.

Biography

Robert was baptized at Bracon Ash on 8 January 1591/2, the son of Henry Townsend and Margaret Forthe.[1] Robert was still living when his father wrote his will on 10 September 1624.

According to this profile and some websites, Robert son of Henry of Bracon Ash was the Robert Townesende who married Margaret Kirsticke at the church of St. Edmund, Norwich on 20 February 1615/16.[2] Father Henry Townshend had sold Bracon Ash in 1599 and moved to Norwich. The marriage entry records Robert as being of Ludham, which is about 35 km away from Bracon Ash on the opposide side of Norwich. There is no record seemingly that connects Henry or his children directly with Ludham, so we cannot discern if this marriage was chosen because it matched the name with loose proximity in a reasonably timeframe, or if there is something more that helps identify Robert who married Margaret Kirsticke to the son of Henry.

Sources

  1. ↑ "Bracon Ash, Baptisms 1563–1663", images of parish register on FindMyPast, unpaginated, image 8 of 53 — "Mr Ro[torn]bert Tounshent ye sonne of Mr. Henery Tounshent & Mrs. Margaret his wife was baptized ye 8th of Januaris 1591."
  2. ↑ "St. Edmund, Norwich, Baptisms 1598–1685, Marriages 1562–1685, Burials 1550–1685", parish register image on Family Search [DGS 8,089,442], unpaginated, image 22 of 560




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Comments: 7

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Dobson-4309 Mike Dobson
Searching for possible children of the marriage between a Robert and Margaret for the 1st 5 years after marriage using a variety of likely names turns up nothing in Norfolk.
posted by Mike Dobson
Smith-116348 Barry Smith
Robert's parents had been disconnected at the same time as they were disconnected from John Townsend, without comment as to why. Robert and John were not brothers, so he should never have been disconnected. It is clear from the changes log that he was created as the son of Henry, hence his birth location in Bracon Ash, supported by the baptism record there of Robert to Henry and Margaret Tounshent, and his being mentioned in his father Henry's will. That he married Margaret Kirsticke is unclear, since that may have been another man of the same name. But online sources claim that he was that same man, so it is clear this profile was also created based off of that assumption. He was created to be the son of Henry, brother of Thomas who came to Lynn, so I have reconnected him to the parents.
posted by Barry Smith
Dobson-4309 Mike Dobson
Robert and Thomas's great-grandfather Robert had manors all over Norfolk. I did not see anything about Ludham but it is possible. They did have relatives named Robert, uncles and cousins of varying degrees, but the information in the Townsend Genealogy does not seem to place any of them in Norfolk.
posted by Mike Dobson
edited by Mike Dobson
Smith-116348 Barry Smith
Yes, it is not an unreasonable guess that it is the same man in the marriage record. But from what I have seen, it smacks of just that -- a guess that this man of the same name who was known to be still alive and who lived probably not far away and was of reasonable age to marry was the one in the record. There is no "uncertain" flag for marriages, unfortunately. In any case, the LNAB on the wife should have the spelling fixed.
posted by Barry Smith
Dobson-4309 Mike Dobson
Got a similar issue with their sister Elizabeth. No baptismal record in Bracon-Ash but one in Foulsham to the north of Bracon-Ash. Their gr-grandmother, Lady Alice (Poppy) Townshend brought the manors in Folsam she inherited from her father to the marriage and they in turn passed to their grandfather Thomas then to Henry. It appears Folsam is an alternate spelling of Foulsham so that is a much stronger link. We can speculate Henry was doing a final tour of his properties prior to their sale in 1599 and their mother happened to give birth there and so Elizabeth was baptized there.

Be an interesting exercise to try and work out the issue with Robert. For his wife's LNAB we should check for other records with alternate spellings or confirmation that the marriage record spelling is correct. His gr-grandfather had extensive estates Ludlow in Shropshire (Solop) which is way on the other side of England so not relevant. Apparently that was the family's original seat as Sir Robert Townshend, Lord Chief Justice of Chester and Wales, has a quite elaborate burial there.

posted by Mike Dobson
edited by Mike Dobson
Dobson-4309 Mike Dobson
Marriage year in the record is 1615 vice 1614. There is a baptism of Margaret Kirsted 23 Jun 1594 in Barton Turf, Norfolk parents Robert Kirsted and Anne. Nothing with the LNAB on her profile. Kirsticke and Kirsted seem like alternate spellings of same individual. Barton Turf is quite close to Ludham so that at least places the two of them near each other. I would probably go with Kirsted as the marriage record is difficult to make out the exact spelling of her last name and "sted" meaning city or town is a more probable part of a surname.
posted by Mike Dobson
edited by Mike Dobson
Dobson-4309 Mike Dobson
Further examination of the marriage record has Margaret as "of Kirsted" which is to the SE of Norwich. Seems as if the landed gentry can be found all over in their home shire.
posted by Mike Dobson

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