Margaret (Talbot) Baker (abt. 1570 - 1632)

Born about 1570 in Mancroft, Norfolk, England

Ancestors

Wife of John Baker — married [date unknown] in Mancroft, Norfolk, England

Descendants

Died 21 Feb 1632 at about age 62 in Great Ness, Shropshire, England

Problems/Questions Profile manager: Jacquelyn Alvord [send private message]

Biography

This profile is part of the Talbot Name Study.

Margaret Talbot was born Abt. 1570 in Mancroft, [parish], Norfolk, England, and died February 28, 1659 in Great Ness, Shropshire, England. She married John Baker on Abt. 1587 in Mancroft, [parish], Norfolk, England, son of Richard Baker and Margery Palmer.

(also known as Ness Strange)

Name

Couldn't find any valid last name at birth. Couldn't find any valid first name. [2]

Note

More About Margaret Talbot and John Baker: Marriage: Abt. 1587, Mancroft, [parish], Norfolk, England.

Children

Children of Margaret Talbot and John Baker are: +John Baker, b. Abt. 1585, Norwich, [parish], Norfolk, England , d. 19 Jun 1617, Charlestown, [county], Massachusetts, USA .

This Lady Lygon died February 21th, 1632, and is buried in Bromsgrove church.

At Bromsgrove, Worcestershire, two brasses bearing the following inscriptions:

"Here lyeth the body of Dame Bridget Talbot, daughter to Sir John Talbot the elder of Grafton and wife to Sir John Talbot of Castle King in Ireland who died in 1619"

" Here lyethe the body of Dame Mar- garete Lygon, daughter to the aforesaid sir John Talbot, and sister to this dame Bridget Talbot that lieth here and wife to Sir Arnould Lygon of Beauchamp's Court, died February 24-1632.^[1][2]

"Richard Lygon of Madresfield served the office of high sheriff of Worcestershire, in the 16th and 26th of Queen Elizabeth. He was twice married, and died 1584, leaving issue by both his wives. ... His second wife was Margaret, daughter of Sir John Talbot', of Salwerpe and Grafton, by whom (who after the death of her first husband married, secondly, Sir Arnold Lygon,) he had issue ..."^[3]

Dame Margaret (Talbot) Lygon, of Mancroft Norfolk Talbot Family Story

In order to understand Margaret (Talbot)’s life, we need to go back at least one or maybe two generations with both her and the men she got together with and what was going on in prior to Margaret and they're getting together with her. If you look at her and her page on the tree like I did at first you will miss her full story. So this is an effort to figure out her story. After working on her life and gleaning what I have she was truly a remarkable woman. She must have been really smart and a great mother. Dame Margaret (Talbot) Lygon, of Mancroft Norfolk Talbot story, begins. Margaret was born on 1570 in Mancroft, Norfolk, England to Sir John Talbot, of Salwerpe and Grafton 1549–1581 (about age 21) and Lady Olive (Sharington) Stapleton 1553–1646 (about age 17) Other then this we have no info on what her childhood was like other then she was the oldest of 8 children. Being the oldest would have given her great responsibility with care for her younger siblings. This might explain the next step in her life. She is married off to Richard Lygon of Madresfield at age 9. But as I said we can’t look at her life at face value or through just her life alone.

Richard Lygon of Madresfield, oldest son (age 23) & heir of William Lygon, Esq., Sheriff of Worcestershire married Mary (Russell) Lygon (age 22) daughter of Sir John Russell and Edith (Unton) Russell

They had 11 children in 16 years.

Thomas (Russell) Lygon; Margaret (Lygon) Hornyold; Elizabeth (Lygon) Smith; Penelope Lygon; Francis Lygon; Sir William Lygon, MP; Anne Lygon; Ralph Lygon; Eleanor Lygon; Edmund Lygon and Henry Lygon

Mary (Russell) Lygon next to the last children were twins. She looks like she got pregnant right away with her last Henry Lygon. They may have hired Margaret to help with the younger children and to care for Mary and help carry out her duties. Or she may have been hired soon after between the time of Mary’s death and when She and Richard Lygon married. Anyways somewhere along the way Margaret (Talbot ) Lygon daughter of Sir John Talbot, of Salwerpe and Grafton and Lady Olive (Sharington) Stapleton comes in the picture with Richard Lygon household. Mary gives birth to the Henry Lygon in 1576 soon after birth or maybe due complications Mary his first wife dies on December 14, 1576.

Margaret (Talbot) Lygon ends up marrying him 3 years later in April 1579. Margaret was only 9 years old at the time and he was age 42. Richard who was left with 11 children ranging in age from 16 to age 3 at the time they got married. I am sure with his being a knight he was called away from home for long periods of time so this may also be the reason for his marrying Margaret. The other may be his religion where he was aloud to marry a girl that young or maybe her father married her off. Plus children in the old days were treated as adults earlier. Whatever the reason was it happened. But if you look at his life with the children and a sudden widower with Margaret maybe being around helping with the two next to the youngest (#9 Eleanor Lygon and #10 Edmund Lygon) the twins with a younger baby (#11 Henry Lygon) may also explain their marriage. Dame Margaret (Talbot) Lygon and Richard Lygon of Madresfield had no children most likely because Margaret wasn’t old enough to do so. He dies October 2, 1584, He leaves her as a stepmother to all his children with Mary (Russell) Lygon

Less than a year later we find Margaret (Talbot) Lygon (now about age 15) may have met Sir John Baker. He may have also known her because of Richard Lygon. In the end, he steps into her life next. Sir John Baker (age 15) Son of Sir Richard Baker, Kt. and Margery (Palmer) Baker. She married him on June 7, 1585, in Sedgley, Staffordshire, England

Margaret and John's children were:

Maurice Baker; John Baker, Sheriff of Kent and Abigail (Baker) Warner

Maybe with the added children on top of their own three, we see there may have been a problem. The Baker marriage may not have been a good one either due to both of their ages... Because soon after Abigail’s was born in 1590 they split and went their own ways. Leaving her with a total of 14 children.

Sometime after their split John (age 20) met and marries Elizabeth Hovel (Smith) Baker (age 17) on October 10, 1592 in Smallburgh, Smallburgh, Norfolk, England. Daughter of Robert Hovel Smyth and Mirable (Knapp) Smyth

Elizabeth and John had 9 children. Edmund Baker; John Baker; Elizabeth Baker; William Baker; Ann Baker; Grace Baker; Richard Baker and Mary Baker

As for John and Margaret’s 3 children, there is no info where they grew up after the split. Because John Baker was a knight and the age of the children, I would say they stayed with their mother

Meanwhile Sir Arnold Lygon, Kt., of Beauchamp's Court the son of Henry Lygon, Esq. and Elizabeth Lygon walks into Margaret (Talbot) Lygon life

Sir Arnold Lygon father was Henry Lygon, Esq. the uncle of Richard Lygon. Henry Lygon, Esq. and William Lygon, of Madresfield (Richard Lygon father), were sons of Sir Richard Lygon, Kt., of Arle and Madresfield and Margaret (Grenville) Lygon. So Arnold and Richard Lygon are cousins which mean Margaret had to have known him from when she was married to Richard.

Sir Arnold Lygon was a widower to Joan (Baker) Lygon his wife who he had married in 1579

The only parent I could find for Joan was one short tree on ancestry naming them Edward Baker and Joan Baker and her siblings as LT. Timother Baker and Eduard Baker As for her father the only Edward that I could find was Sir Richard Baker, Kt., MP (1528–1594) and Catherine (Tyrrell) Baker (1520–1572) son John Baker, of Sissinghurst (1553–1586) son Edward Baker 1583–

At any rate, Sir Arnold Lygon, Kt., of Beauchamp's Court and Joan (Baker) Lygon was married to in 1579 in Kingsgrove, Gloucestershire, England

Between 1580 to 1587 He and Joan had 7children.

Elizabeth Lygon; John Lygon, of Arle, twin to Ralph; Ralph Lygon, twin to John; Thomas Lygon; Katharine Dormer; Henry Lygon and Ferdinand Lygon

Apparently, after Ferdinand Lygon birth Joan got sick and dies. In steps Margaret (Talbot) Lygon to the rescue. She may have stepped in during that time to take care of his children even while she and John were still married, we will never know.

After Margaret (Talbot) Lygon and John Baker split and after Sir Arnold Lygon, Kt., of Beauchamp's Court became a widower in 1587 Arnold and Margaret married in 1593 they had no children

Margaret (Talbot) Lygon was the governess to Richard Lygon, of Madresfield household at the start

I am still not sure yet where Maurice Baker; John Baker, Sheriff of Kent and Abigail (Baker) Warner Margaret and Johns children went while they were growing up after she and Sir John Baker split but when they were adult all three ended up in the U.S.

Sir John and Elizabeth Hovel (Smith) Baker (1576 -1660 ) had 9 children after their marriage Oct. 10, 1592 She dies on April 13, 1660, Moulton, Suffolk, England and is buried in Brigstock, Brigstock, Northampton shire, England There is no evidence that any of their children came to America.

As for Joan (Baker) Sir Arnold Lygon, Kt., of Beauchamp's Court first wife she may be related to John Baker which would explain how Margaret (Talbot) Lygon and he met through Joan and Margaret’s last husband. So far I haven’t figured that out yet.

Elizabeth Hovel (Smith) Baker may have worked for Richard Lygon of Madresfield household or even Sir Arnold Lygon, Kt., of Beauchamp's Court. John, it is not known where he is buried so far it may be with Elizabeth in Woodton, Norfolk, England.

Margaret (Talbot) Lygon is buried with Sir Arnold Lygon, Kt., of Beauchamp's Court

So if you look at Margaret (Talbot) Lygon life at first glance her life looks impossible for her to be married so young to Richard Lygon of Madresfield. Her marring him at only 9 years old is a really hard thing to swallow. Was she forced into it who knows? I am sure she was overwhelmed marring him at that age with him being left with 11 children ranging in age from 16 to age 3 at the time they got married from his former marriage. With Richard being a Knight he would be gone away from home for long periods of time. So this may also be the reason he married Margaret. The other may be his religion where he would be allowed to marry a girl that young. Children in the old days were treated as adults earlier then we do today. Frankly in compared to then the children now days are too soft, we all are. Whatever the reason was it happened. But what is so remarkable about her life is she was a stepmother to Richards 11 and 7 from Arnold first marriage and her three to care for. Hopefully, she had help.^[4]

Margaret was born in 1570. She was the daughter of John Talbot and Olive Sherington. She passed away in 1632.

Research note

The Margaret Talbot who married Richard Lygon, Walter Blount and Arnold Lygon was Margaret Talbot, daughter of John Talbot and his wife, Elizabeth Wrottesley. ^[5][6]There is more evidence on the profile. Margaret Talbot Lygon was married three times as above and was not married to a man called John Baker.

It is not thought that she had any children and it does not seem that she married aged 9.

These families were from the Midlands, descendants of the marcher Lords. Any connection with Norfolk is unlikely.

Sources

1. ↑ Information Posted on Vi Beck at Geni
2. ↑ Cotton W A (1881) Bromsgrove Church : its history & antiquities ; with an account of the Sunday schools, churchyard, and cemetery [1]
3. ↑ Collins's Peerage of England; Genealogical, Biographical, and ..., Volume 9. By Arthur Collins, Sir Egerton Brydges. "Lygon corrections.". Page 510
4. ↑ by Vi Beck
5. ↑ Visitation of Shropshire 1623: Talbot
6. ↑ Oxford Shakespeare.com. The will of Richard Lygon

• Staffordshire, England Extracted Church of England Parish Records 1530-11835
• Shropshire Burials [3]
• The Family Of Brice and Cathy Alvord By Brice Alvord p.178
• http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/p/a/o/Shirley-Ann-Paolino/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0252.html
• http://www.genes2.com/boulch/b2779.html

Acknowledgements

• WikiTree profile UNKNOWN-103229 created through the import of HUNTER FAMILY TREE (3).ged on Aug 27, 2011 by Restricted Hunter. See the Changes page for the details of edits by Restricted and others.
• English Birth and Christening Records