Can we get unsourced profiles deleted after one month after warning the PM?

+4 votes
840 views
I have some unsourced (Boswell-2065) and Ancestry "private tree" sourced (Boswell-271) profiles claiming to be sons of a man for whom I am PM (Boswell-272). One source I have for him says he died at least 12 years before one of these "sons" was born. What can I do about this, apart from leaving a comment, which just gets ignored?

If these unsourced profiles were deleted after a month, with fair warning given to the creator, then these incorrect links would be removed. If they come back and re-create it, then it would be automatically deleted again, unless they provide a source.
WikiTree profile: John Boswell
in The Tree House by Alan Boswell G2G6 (8.6k points)
You can add a disclaimer to the profile of the parents, listing sources proving they could not be part of that family.

Had to do that with a few ancestors profiles that were merged. One of those was my grandfather, that came with a whole family of strangers, that were fictional.  After no activity from the other PM for a couple years, I booted them out.
Alan, I was under the assumption, (my mistake) that this was a research tool, not a timed event. Not that I need to explain to you; I work as an architect, teach architecture on a collegiate level and then when time allows, I work on my research. I'm rather appalled at your narcissistic comments and not sure who made you the king of Boswell genealogy. With that said, this process should be a collaborative effort, however, if this is in fact, Wiki's protocol, I will gracefully bow out and find another avenue to pursue my research.

Respectfully, Richard L. Boswell, II
Richard, I am sorry if I have upset you. I don't much like Wikitree's recently added "you will add a source by tomorrow" note either. I probably over-reacted to a run of profiles from Ancestry with no sources except "other Ancestry family trees" which are notoriously unreliable. I am no genealogy king, but I am interested in all Boswells, and want to build as reliable common tree as we can achieve by working together. I find Wikitree is a great resource, and a great place to share your research, but it is quite demanding on sources.
took me about 5 minutes to locate a plethora of DOCUMENT sources - posted some below

15 Answers

+27 votes
Bad idea, Alan. Sourcing is difficult, and not always available. In general, nearly all of the unsourced profiles have real people behind them, and often the unsourced data is correct, or nearly so, and gives hints as where to look for real sources. There are more profiles than we have time to work on sourcing them. Deleting them just because someone has not got around to them is not the right answer. That's one reason we have source-a-thons, like the one we have going on today, and why we have a big one annually. I'm not one of the most devoted sourcerers, but I have found sources for hundreds of our unsourced profiles. Some wikitreers have sourced thousands of the unsourced. There are untold numbers of sources just waiting to be found. The goal of WikiTree is to source every single profile, to make a truly world wide family tree, not to build a tree for sourced profiles only.
by Jim Parish G2G6 Pilot (172k points)
+18 votes

Why is there no "delete" button on profiles? Deletion is almost never appropriate onWikiTree. Wikis are designed so that information can be improved-upon, not erased. Even if nobody else appears to be collaborating with you on the profile, deletion hurts the community in a variety of subtle ways.Jan 23, 2020

by Susan Smith G2G6 Pilot (652k points)
edited by Susan Smith
+10 votes
by Living Kelts G2G6 Pilot (545k points)
+16 votes
Your source is a history/genealogy published in 1877, and the section you refer to in your citation has no individual sources footnoted, so how do you know your source is accurate? The names of John's sons, except for William, are not stated. I don't believe your source is sufficient to discount the other unsourced profiles. Sourcing profiles from the 16th and early 17th centuries is incredibly difficult.
by Jim Parish G2G6 Pilot (172k points)
It's a fair point, but I would say that something published that much closer to the events in question must have been based on some information, and in any case, any source is better than none. The fact that nobody has been able to find evidence to support these profiles suggests they may be a figment of somebody's imagination. If sources can be found, I would welcome them with open arms.
+11 votes

Alan, have you contacted the Profile Managers of the offending Profiles on why they felt these were the sons?  Possibly they may have sources not yet added.  Though I do think the son born 12 years after his death is a bit of a reach.

Also, you may want to use this as a Source link for History of the County of Ayr : with a genealogical account of the families of Ayrshire by Paterson for John and James.

<ref> James Paterson [https://archive.org/details/historyofcountyo01pateuoft/page/238/mode/2up History of the County of Ayr : with a genealogical account of the families of Ayrshire] Publisher T.G. Stevenson Edinburgh 1847-1852 Page: 238 </ref>

This Source permits the viewer to see the book.

by LJ Russell G2G6 Pilot (215k points)
Thank you for the tip. I have done that.
+30 votes

Deletion is almost always the wrong answer. (and rarely done here on WikiTree)

However, I think what you're looking for is Disconnection. (some people often use the word "delete" when they really mean "disconnect")

Simply disconnect the offending profiles. It sounds like they are connected to the wrong parents (or at least the wrong generation)

by Dennis Wheeler G2G6 Pilot (569k points)
Thank you for the tip. I have "disconnected the profiles, and messaged the PMs.
Add Research Notes section with the wikitree ID of the person that was removed and the reason and source.  On the child, do the same thing with the parent(s) so hopefully it won't get connected again.
+13 votes
There are a lot of things you could do, Alan.

I see that your Boswell, 272, was doubtless created in the same process that created 271.  Since the relationship seems to contradict established fact, you can detach 271 from 272.

Boswell-2065 seems to be an attempt at establishing a different lineage. The profile was created very recently, by a new member. With no sources for it, and no evidence that your 272 ever had a son, you would be justified in detaching this profile, as well.

Then what you could do, as a member of the Scotland Project is to get a PPP for 272.  This would prevent random profiles from being added as his son without evidence. The project could take over the profile and conduct the research necessary to straighten out this line.
by Lois Tilton G2G6 Pilot (171k points)
I might also suggest that you do adopt Boswell-271. This would keep an uncooperative PM from running the profile.
Thank you for your suggestion. I have detached these profiles and informed the PM or creator in each case.
This is hardly an obscure family.  There ought to be a lot of material available to shed more light on this question.

I wonder if your Boswell might have died in the Battle of Preston.
+5 votes
Thing is, Wikitree wants to keep profiles (even poorly or not-at-all sourced ones) and Wikitreers. I've had people froth at the mouth because I asked them to source a profile, I can only imagine how nutty some folks would get if their "work" was deleted.
by Jessica Key G2G6 Pilot (310k points)
I've offended people by asking for their sources too.   Sometimes they actually admit they have no idea, just got a tree from somewhere.
Hey, if they admit they don't have sources, we can at least go from there. It's the belligerent ones I can't handle. I had someone recently do a Cartman-esque "you guys, I'M GOING HOME" flounce when I asked for sourcing.
Jessica, you about killed me with laughter on the "Cartman-esque" bit. It's amazing how sensitive people can be about "their" research, even if 10,000 people before them found the same thing, and it's public info, they act like it's... "The preciouses...we must not lets them haveses it....nooooooo......!" (Coming back atcha with my Shmeegle!)

Thanks for keeping it light and friendly!
+11 votes
No!

I thought of this question just this morning, when I found the unsourced profile of a relative's wife. And then there this question was again, in another Wiki Genealogy Feed in my inbox.

I have connected her to her husband, and will get as many sources into her profile as possible today.

Her profile was created in 2015.

I am glad it wasn't deleted.
by Victoria Surr G2G6 Mach 1 (10.0k points)
+7 votes
No, I do not agree with this. Finding sources can be hard sometimes. It takes time sometimes.
by Greta Moody G2G6 Pilot (197k points)
+8 votes
Alan, I missed this question when it was posted.  WikiTree does not delete profiles except in very unusual circumstances.  And unlike other sites, all profiles are owned by everyone.  We certainly have a number of unsourced or poorly sourced profiles, and what they need is to be sourced, not deleted.  Anyone can source them;  it is not just the responsibility of the profile manager.

Now, should the profile manager be sourcing them?  Of course.  I made the mistake of uploading a GEDCOM several years ago -- something I will never do again, because the garbage produced by that one GEDCOM is still all over WikiTree.  Gradually I am going through those profiles and cleaning them up, adding sources, but it takes time.  Sometimes someone else comes and cleans one of these profiles up, and I am grateful.

Where it proves impossible to find a source, we still don't delete the profile.  We bring it in to the Disproven Existence Project, sever its relationships to other profiles so it is not part of anyone's family tree, and provide as much information as we can as to what it was part of and the efforts we made to find sourcing for it.  So if you find profiles that just can't be sourced, Disproven Existence is a good destination for them -- see the Disproven Existence Notices on G2G.  Before we put the label on, we give a week's notice as a challenge, and sometimes people have actually come up with sources!  WikiTree is a collaborative effort, and G2G shows some of the collaboration at its best.

Jack Day
by Jack Day G2G6 Pilot (457k points)
Thanks. I had never heard of the "Disproven Existence Project". Sounds painful!
+4 votes

there are sources and they were easy to find

England, Select Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991No Image
Text-only collection
      Name: Mary Dent
      Gender: Female
      Marital status: Married
      Burial Date: 10 Jul 1788
      Burial Place: Hindringham, Norfolk, England
      Spouse: John Boswell
      FHL Film Number: 1596116
      Reference ID: P 66

      Source Information

      Ancestry.com. England, Select Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2014.

      by Eddie King G2G6 Pilot (690k points)
      +4 votes
      England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973No Image
      Text-only collection
          Name: John Boswell
          Gender: Male
          Marriage Date: 10 Jun 1777
          Marriage Place: Hindringham, Norfolk, England
          Spouse: Mary Dent
          FHL Film Number: 1596116
          Reference ID: Item 5, pg 35

          Source Information

          Ancestry.com. England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2014.

          by Eddie King G2G6 Pilot (690k points)
          +4 votes

          Margaret Boswell

           in the Norfolk, England, Transcripts of Church of England Baptism, Marriage and Burial Registers, 1600-1935

            Name: Margaret Boswell
            Gender: Female
            Record Type: Burial
            Death Date: abt 1802
            Burial Date: 9 Feb 1802
            Burial Place: Hindringham, Norfolk, England
            Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:

            View this parish

            Father: John Boswell
            Mother: Mary Dent

            Source Citation

            Norfolk Record Office; Norwich, Norfolk, England; Norfolk Church of England Registers; Reference: AT Hindringham

            by Eddie King G2G6 Pilot (690k points)
            +4 votes
            Virginia, Land, Marriage, and Probate Records, 1639-1850No Image
            Text-only collection
                Name: John Boswell
                Date: 30 Apr 1740
                Location: Spotsylvania Co., VA
                Property: 980 a. in Spts. Co.
                Notes: This land record was originally published in "Virginia County Records - Spotsylvania County, 1721-1800, Volume I" edited by William Armstrong Crozier.
                Remarks: Joseph Brock of Spts. Co., Gent. and Mary, his wife, to John Boswell of sd. county , planter. 100 curr. 980 a. in Spts. Co.-part of pat. granted Larkin Chew, Decd., June 4, 1723 (1722?), repatented by sd. Brock, Sept. 12, 1738. May 6, 1740.
                Description: Grantee
                Book: C
                Occupation: Planter

                Source Information

                Ancestry.com. Virginia, Land, Marriage, and Probate Records, 1639-1850 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2004.

                by Eddie King G2G6 Pilot (690k points)
                OK. Point taken. So people bringing in gedcoms or trees from ancestry.com should have no problems in providing the sources for their profiles, if they know where to look. Maybe that's the problem?

                A lot of people just copy previous trees and BLAMMO

                wikitree members have a mess to fix

                Most of us enjoy doing the research and fixing things

                Some people don't know how.

                Me, I like doing soldiers including naval servicemen. And I like the deep digging projects. A couple years ago, I proved the lineage of US Naval hero Reuben James. No other website had his parents or siblings proven. Had to examine over a hundred land records and wills. Wikitree and my post for him on werelate are the only sites that have Reuben correctly done. 

                wikitree isn't always an easy ride, my friend surprise

                 I'm dubious of  a John Boswell born Scotland  being the same man as one married and living in Norfolk and of course the birth in Scotland and the marriage in Norfolk are im different centuries. 

                .There are Boswells in the Norfolk  parish in the 1690s. If you search  nearby  parishes,  there  are candidates for the man who married Mary Dent

                  (see link below).

                Mary was  aged 31 at her death

                The couple look to have had a daughter, Elizabeth in either 1778 or 1779 ( two transcripts.)

                A John Boswell widower married Susannah Barnes in 1789.

                Margaret (cited above by Eddie).was 18 at her death

                There is a John Boswell,  aged 87, buried in 1829

                I can't c and p the refs (using a phone) but can give a link to the search https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_queries/5ec42dd5791e3be669a754df?locale=en

                the profile cited by Alan has a spouse Mary Dent. Whatever else is on the profile may be ancestrytree junk

                Alan's complaint is about unsourced junk profiles possibly tied to his family lines

                For this particular Boswell/Dent pair, there are sources that can be examined.

                Whether or not this pair ties to his Boswell line is something to investigate

                Related questions

                +5 votes
                1 answer
                +6 votes
                2 answers
                +21 votes
                3 answers
                502 views asked Aug 21, 2020 in The Tree House by Kay Knight G2G6 Pilot (593k points)
                +14 votes
                2 answers
                +5 votes
                3 answers
                182 views asked May 19, 2020 in WikiTree Tech by Rebecca Peterson G2G6 Mach 1 (19.3k points)
                +1 vote
                1 answer
                467 views asked Mar 26, 2020 in The Tree House by Norm Lindquist G2G6 Mach 7 (74.2k points)

                WikiTree  ~  About  ~  Help Help  ~  Search Person Search  ~  Surname:

                disclaimer - terms - copyright

                ...